Cracking the code

[palisa]

Just looking for opinions here. Although I've been a member of this site for a couple of years, I didn't participate much until recently, and didn't really pay much attention to ratings and such. After doing a bit of VE-ing and posting my first story, I'm seeking opinions on how to crack the top rungs of the ratings.

The direct impetus for this question is a message i just got from the author of a new story I edited. I thought the reception was great, especially the public comments, including one that said the story made her (I presume) cry. It was a romance story, which perhaps was not something I should have taken on, because I'm not a chick lit fan. But she did a good job, I thought.

The author, however, said she was disappointed that the story hadn't exceeded any of her previous ratings; she wanted, she said, something in the high 4.8's or lower 4.9's.

My editing was rather light; she's a good writer, but I did point out several logical lapses and pruned down a bit of overwriting. Not much I could add, though, to try to give her a shot at the top of the list.

I suppose the key to a really higih rating depends partly on the category; a romance story is not a stroke story, for example, and character development is more important than sweaty bodies rubbing together in ingenious ways.

Any thoughts?

 

[starrkers]

Personally, I'm more than happy if I crack 4.5 on any story. Anything above that is cream, and to expect it setting your pride up for a fall, IMHO.

 

[emap]

What she said.

No seriously, the ratings you receive on a story are not indicative of the quality of the story. Well OK I suppose I should say not always, usually not even. Anyway expecting anything beyond a rating of some sort is a fools errand. The story I have written that I felt was the most exciting and involving has the lowest rating among all of mine. The only reason I can think of for why it is that low, it is a non consent/reluctance story that goes closer to an actual rape story than 99.9% of the non consent/reluctance stories.

 

[Max ODrive]

I've got 2 stories up and one in queue.. the two up have scored 4.53 and 4.72 respectively and, with the 5 point to 10 point scale compensated for, they've received almost the exact same ratings at other sites..

The one in queue is currently posted elsewhere and has pulled the equivilant of a 4.5, so I'm assuming it'll receive similar ratings here.. BUT.. with that said!

Those stories all fit within "positive" categories.. and have an upbeat "message" (as it were..). Now, if the same stories had a more negative message, or were the type that belonged in a "more negative" category, then IMO, they wouldn't have faired nearly as well.

It is extremely rare that, even if extraordinarily well written, a story in NonCon or BDSM will get a rating much over 4.. although BDSM sometimes fares better because the tag "BDSM" automatically runs off the biggest part of the "moral majority".. (so I have high hopes that my story-after-next will be well scored, even though it'll reside in BDSM)

Now.. with even THAT said..

For a story to even have a CHANCE to make it above 4.5, it has to be spelled correctly, homonymically correct (you know what I mean.. no high heals or hugh erections) grammatically correct (within reason and the space dialogue permits) and last but not least.. please make sure that the character's name doesn't change halfway through the story.. I really hate it when Janet suddeny becomes Chrissy from the time it takes to walk from the bathroom to the kitchen.. (in other words, don't confuse the poor reader.. we need all the help we can get!)

And while the ratings are a guideline for the OVERALL quality of the story, they are by no means an accurate way to determine the IMPACT of the story. You can ONLY get that response in the email feedback and the posted feedback to the story. If you move someone to tears.. if you move them to masturbate in the office with the door locked during work hours.. if you move them to compare you to well-known, "legit" authors.. THEN you've done your job..

Its NOT your job to get ratings as a writer.. its your job to MOVE your reader. move them emotionally.. move them erotically.. move them to think... or just move them to ENJOY the time they spend reading your story..

If I never get another rating again, if all I get is one single solitary email that says "I enjoyed your story! Thank you!" then.. to me.. I succeeded.

 

[sr71plt]

I've got 2 stories up and one in queue.. the two up have scored 4.53 and 4.72 respectively and, with the 5 point to 10 point scale compensated for, they've received almost the exact same ratings at other sites..

The one in queue is currently posted elsewhere and has pulled the equivilant of a 4.5, so I'm assuming it'll receive similar ratings here.. BUT.. with that said!

Those stories all fit within "positive" categories.. and have an upbeat "message" (as it were..). Now, if the same stories had a more negative message, or were the type that belonged in a "more negative" category, then IMO, they wouldn't have faired nearly as well.

It is extremely rare that, even if extraordinarily well written, a story in NonCon or BDSM will get a rating much over 4.. although BDSM sometimes fares better because the tag "BDSM" automatically runs off the biggest part of the "moral majority".. (so I have high hopes that my story-after-next will be well scored, even though it'll reside in BDSM)

Now.. with even THAT said..

For a story to even have a CHANCE to make it above 4.5, it has to be spelled correctly, homonymically correct (you know what I mean.. no high heals or hugh erections) grammatically correct (within reason and the space dialogue permits) and last but not least.. please make sure that the character's name doesn't change halfway through the story.. I really hate it when Janet suddeny becomes Chrissy from the time it takes to walk from the bathroom to the kitchen.. (in other words, don't confuse the poor reader.. we need all the help we can get!)

And while the ratings are a guideline for the OVERALL quality of the story, they are by no means an accurate way to determine the IMPACT of the story. You can ONLY get that response in the email feedback and the posted feedback to the story. If you move someone to tears.. if you move them to masturbate in the office with the door locked during work hours.. if you move them to compare you to well-known, "legit" authors.. THEN you've done your job..

Its NOT your job to get ratings as a writer.. its your job to MOVE your reader. move them emotionally.. move them erotically.. move them to think... or just move them to ENJOY the time they spend reading your story..

If I never get another rating again, if all I get is one single solitary email that says "I enjoyed your story! Thank you!" then.. to me.. I succeeded.

As depressing as it sounds, my stories seem to hold a high rating comfortably on the basis of the stroking quotient and inventive scenarios. My better stories (in terms of literary effort) huff and puff to achieve/retain any ratings heat (i.e. 4.5 rating) at all (but they sell quicker than most of the high-stroke ones). None of it seems to have anything much to do with grammar and spelling--not that I don't try to have that in acceptable limits for an Internet site.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

The score a story achieves has as much to do with the category it is in as the quality of the writing. Stories in Loving Wives tend to be voted down a lot while stories in the Romance category tend to score on the higher end of the scale.

 

[sr71plt]

The score a story achieves has as much to do with the category it is in as the quality of the writing. Stories in Loving Wives tend to be voted down a lot while stories in the Romance category tend to score on the higher end of the scale.

And readers in the Gay Male section tend not to vote at all.

 

[sr71plt]

I've got 2 stories up and one in queue.. the two up have scored 4.53 and 4.72 respectively and, with the 5 point to 10 point scale compensated for, they've received almost the exact same ratings at other sites...

Wow. Two whole stories up and already an expert. Wow.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

And readers in the Gay Male section tend not to vote at all.

So, all in all, scores don't mean a lot.

 

[sr71plt]

So, all in all, scores don't mean a lot.

If your story sits at 4.8, scores mean the world; if at 3.75, scores don't mean much.

Seriously, though, they might mean a fraction more for comparison within categories than across categories--IF they weren't so easy to manipulate to begin with.

 

[palisa]

It was interesting to look at the top lists and see what story #500 in each was rated. That's a crude measure, I suppose; you'd have to weight them by the number of votes to see what's really going on. But anal, humor and one or two other categories seemed to be the lowest at about 4.5; most of the other categories were in the lower 4.7's, and romance was at 4.85.

I guess she picked a tough category to crack. That also may explain why the author was disappointed that the early returns on her story didn't even put her in the top 500 there.

I'm not sure how you'd go about manipulating scores, except by getting all your friends to vote high (maybe a mutual assistance pact? ).

But I'm not sure. I've noticed some authors here with a huge number of stories, all but one or two of them over 4.5, but none with any public comments. That seems a bit strange...

 

[snooper]

... I'm not sure how you'd go about manipulating scores, except by getting all your friends to vote high (maybe a mutual assistance pact? ...

This also involves all your friends voting low on any rival stories in the top few hundred. I can never understand the point of doing this, unless you have megalomaniac tendencies. Since when was writing a competitive sport, let alone one where cheating is acceptable?

... But I'm not sure. I've noticed some authors here with a huge number of stories, all but one or two of them over 4.5, but none with any public comments. That seems a bit strange...

The authors can delete public comments, and some do so ruthlessly.

 

[Darkniciad]

This also involves all your friends voting low on any rival stories in the top few hundred. I can never understand the point of doing this, unless you have megalomaniac tendencies. Since when was writing a competitive sport, let alone one where cheating is acceptable?

The authors can delete public comments, and some do so ruthlessly.

They also may not have PCs enabled. I've encountered that a few times. After an encounter with some of the more colorful individuals in Loving Wives, Interratial, etc, some people will decide that they don't want the ramblings of the masses attached to their story.

If you write passably in certain categories, it's possible to have a near perfect string of Hs with only a small fanbase that likes your writing. I'm a prime example. I think I'm short on votes with my most recent and below 4.5 on one other with this pen name, and short on votes for three on my alternate pen name. I just tend to write in the niches, where you have a far higher likliehood of readers hungry enough to vote high when they do get something tossed their way, without the subject matter low votes that some cats attract ( BDSM, LW, Interratial, NC/R )

 

[palisa]

They also may not have PCs enabled.

Right. I assume, though, that if you're offered a chance to leave comments, they are enabled for that story.

 

[emap]

Yes if there is a clicky to leave a comment that means the public comments are turned on for the story. However, a writer has a handy little clicky to erase some or all of said public comments. All would take a while depending on how many there are of course, but it is possible. I've read some old stories that were very good and had the option of leaving a public vote, though there were none.

As snoopy said, some authors delete the comments ruthlessly, and I rather assume others go back in their old stories and delete the comments. Why they do that is beyond me, the trolls leaving their amusing hate comments are the reason a few of my stories have comments, because I get trolled then a nice person or three comes along and says your an idiot it is well done.

Perhaps I am a rarity though, I don't look at the comment literally so much as how it was written and generally get a feel for the reason they posted it, or sent it to me in email. I get a good number of snickers, giggles, and outright guffaws, not to mention those really saucy ones that leave me a bit excited.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not sure how you'd go about manipulating scores, except by getting all your friends to vote high (maybe a mutual assistance pact? ).

Since the system permits anonymous votes without being registered, all you have to do is go to a series of computers on different ISPs than yours and vote (once per computer, of course). This involves time and effort, of course--and computers you can get to.

On comments: Leaving comments on a story also is category specific. For some categories, posters have week-long discussions using the PC feature; in other categories, posters comment as little as they vote--even though the reading scores might be high. Also, a lot of comments are sent directly to the author by e-mail or PM.

There just aren't a lot of judgments you can reach on aggregate analysis of the voting/commenting system here. That might be a "good thing."

 

[evanslily]

Maybe I shouldn't add my twopenneth here with my paltry six submissions to date, but what the hell...

Something I've noticed, both from the reception to my own stories and those of other authors I read is that the vote of 4 or 5 for a story often depends on where you leave that story. Stop on a high point--you'll probably score a 5. Readers are fickle like that. You might write the best story in the world (not me, obviously ) but if the reader doesn't like what's in the last paragraph or so, he/she'll be more inclined to vote 4 instead.

Just a thought...

 

[sr71plt]

Maybe I shouldn't add my twopenneth here with my paltry six submissions to date, but what the hell...

Something I've noticed, both from the reception to my own stories and those of other authors I read is that the vote of 4 or 5 for a story often depends on where you leave that story. Stop on a high point--you'll probably score a 5. Readers are fickle like that. You might write the best story in the world (not me, obviously ) but if the reader doesn't like what's in the last paragraph or so, he/she'll be more inclined to vote 4 instead.

Just a thought...

Think you're right. The ending is very important. Of course the rest of it shold be pretty good too--or the reader's not going to hold on to get to the ending.

 

[emap]

Off the wall thought here, but perhaps it is not so much the ending that is important but how fast and how well you get to the sex. No seriously, literotica is read by mostly men right, guys as near as I can tell by and large are all about getting to the O moment fast as possible.

Which I suppose would be why the gay men section readers don't vote much, they are generally straight men doing a little fantasy feeding and leaving ASAP after.

Probably why the non consent/reluctance area is a tad picky as well. Forcing and gay being the standard oh hell no I don't like that crap things that get a ton of readers anyway.

My one non consent/reluctance story has 27146 readers to date, with 8 votes. I have an exhibitionist/voyeur story posted, 22172 readers to date 31 votes. Are you seeing the trend there? I got a better example, very safe category, first time I have one story posted there 124406 readers to date 248 votes.

In other words, men are more comfortable voting on the categories that are 'safe' to enjoy than the ones they are not. Oddly enough the last time I checked my stories my first time had 400+ votes so apparently a number of the readers were repeats who really enjoyed it.

Oh yeah there was another point there. If you are going after the ratings and want high, make sure you do first time stories because those are apparently the stories everybody reads and votes on.

 

[starrkers]

It was interesting to look at the top lists and see what story #500 in each was rated. That's a crude measure, I suppose; you'd have to weight them by the number of votes to see what's really going on. But anal, humor and one or two other categories seemed to be the lowest at about 4.5; most of the other categories were in the lower 4.7's, and romance was at 4.85.

I guess she picked a tough category to crack. That also may explain why the author was disappointed that the early returns on her story didn't even put her in the top 500 there.

I'm not sure how you'd go about manipulating scores, except by getting all your friends to vote high (maybe a mutual assistance pact? ).

But I'm not sure. I've noticed some authors here with a huge number of stories, all but one or two of them over 4.5, but none with any public comments. That seems a bit strange...

When looking at the score for story #500, you also have to take into account how many stories there are in the category overall.
Anal and humour have less than 2000 stories overall. Therefore lower rated stories are more likely to make it to the top 500.

 

[Darkniciad]

When looking at the score for story #500, you also have to take into account how many stories there are in the category overall.
Anal and humour have less than 2000 stories overall. Therefore lower rated stories are more likely to make it to the top 500.

And Chain Stories hasn't even reached the 500 mark yet. Any story that acquires 10 votes earns a spot on the toplist

 

[sr71plt]

Off the wall thought here, but perhaps it is not so much the ending that is important but how fast and how well you get to the sex. No seriously, literotica is read by mostly men right, guys as near as I can tell by and large are all about getting to the O moment fast as possible.

I think this is a category-specific issue. In the "hotter" categories, I almost always include some form of sex scene--and there are various ways to do this--within the first four paragraphs. And for a GM, I almost always include a fuller scene later as well.

Which I suppose would be why the gay men section readers don't vote much, they are generally straight men doing a little fantasy feeding and leaving ASAP after.

I think gay men just don't vote or comment much inherently--but they do read. Most of my comments on GM stories pretty obviously come from women. So, probably most of the votes too.

In other words, men are more comfortable voting on the categories that are 'safe' to enjoy than the ones they are not. Oddly enough the last time I checked my stories my first time had 400+ votes so apparently a number of the readers were repeats who really enjoyed it.

That sounds quite possible.

 

[emap]

I kinda have to disagree on the gay men don't comment or vote much inherently. Every single one that I have met, openly and not they were so full of comments and criticisms it was a teensy annoying to talk to them.

Not kidding I would sit with one and we would comment and well, appraise men and women who walked by, that man had the oddest sense of fashion and humour and he was not shy about letting people hear him.

 

[sr71plt]

I kinda have to disagree on the gay men don't comment or vote much inherently. Every single one that I have met, openly and not they were so full of comments and criticisms it was a teensy annoying to talk to them.

Not kidding I would sit with one and we would comment and well, appraise men and women who walked by, that man had the oddest sense of fashion and humour and he was not shy about letting people hear him.

I was referring to Lit. And I can only base my observations on the impressions on who is commenting on the line of GM stories I post here. Not, I'm sure, any sort of scientific test. Just what seems to be happening here.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I was referring to Lit. And I can only base my observations on the impressions on who is commenting on the line of GM stories I post here. Not, I'm sure, any sort of scientific test. Just what seems to be happening here.

You post gay-male stories? Much is explained.