Cracking the Code (aka "WTF do readers want?")

[AlphaLyon]

As a new writer here, I've experimented with a few different story types so far to try and get a feel for where I should focus my efforts as I develop my skills in this genre.
Based upon the ratings and responses, the only thing I've discovered is confusion.

I know it can be tough to make a name for one's self, especially with so many established and prolific writers already here, but any pointers on how to increase engagement would be helpful, as I have received very few (if any) comments and seemingly mediocre ratings to indicate how to both hone my craft and tailor it to the audience here.

*insert clip of Maximus asking, "Are you not entertained?" from Gladiator.*

Yes, I know I should write what I would want to read, but at the same time, it would be nice to attract more active/responsive readers who can help provide constructive critique. (sex too graphic? not enough character development? you suck as a writer and you should feel bad about yourself? ;-) )

If you would like samples of what I've published here so far, links are below along with the current (views//rating//number of comments).
WARNING: everything I have posted so far has explicit gay (m/m) content so I know that my base is limited in that regard.

My submission for what I consider a fairly simple (narratively) m/m
(4.9k // 4.17* // 7c):
Steamworks

My long-form / serialized story (1.9k // 3.65* // 0c):
Cody

My character/narrative-focused story (487 // 4.36* // 0c)
The Two Davids

Again, any pointers or advice would be appreciated, based upon your personal experiences. Thanks, and before you let Jesus take the wheel, remember that he never got his driver's license.

 

[KeithD]

The cracked code says: "There is no universal reader at Literotica."

 

[ElectricBlue]

Again, any pointers or advice would be appreciated, based upon your personal experiences. Thanks, and before you let Jesus take the wheel, remember that he never got his driver's license.

I didn't find my stride until I had a dozen stories under my belt. That was apprenticeship number one - how to write, getting basic techniques right. Then I began apprenticeship number two, how to find my natural style. Readers can't help you there, that's down to you as a writer. After twenty or so stories/chapters I knew myself as a writer, and then began to really write.

Feedback is fun, but I don't think you ever get enough to really help you become a better writer. Only more writing does that.

One more comment - don't try to write what you think readers want, that's an impossible task. Write well, and readers will come.

Keep writing, grasshopper .

 

[yibala2]

Yes, I know I should write what I would want to read, but at the same time, it would be nice to attract more active/responsive readers who can help provide constructive critique.

I agree with the responses you've received. Reader comments may tell you whether readers like or don't like something (emphatically, in the case of Steamworks) but generally not in enough detail to help you improve your craft. The best ways to improve your craft are to keep writing, develop relationships with and observe other writers you think do it well.

Absolutely, you should write what you want to read. The Lit audience is so freakin' large, you will find folks here who want to read it too.

Yib

 

[8letters]

My advice on "cracking the code"

I'm an I/T writer, so I don't know how well this translates to other categories:
1. Don't write about two people hopping in bed. Write about two people living their lives, facing their challenges, and as they live their lives they fall in love and then hop in bed
2. Have a reason for why each character is attracted to the other. Something beyond physical attraction (which is also good to have!). The readers should see the characters as completing each other
3. Have some challenges the characters have to overcome to be together, ideally before they have sex
4. Have the readers rooting for the characters to have sex before they have sex
5. If possible, make the sex scenes different from two people having vanilla sex on a bed in a bedroom
6. If you have multiple sex scenes, have the sex scenes before the last one advance the plot
7. Make the story a fantasy and at the same time plausible
8. End with a HEA ending

 

[SimonDoom]

I scanned a couple of your stories very quickly. It seems like you've got the mechanics of writing down pretty well, something many new writers don't. So you are ahead of the game in that respect.

Don't pay too much attention to numerical scores. Something to know about Literotica is that stories that are less than one Lit page (about 3750 words) tend not to score well. It doesn't mean they're not good stories. It's just a reflection of readers' peculiar tastes here.

From what I could see from my quick scan, I would offer this suggestion: concentrate a bit more on the characters. Ask yourself, why should the reader care about my main character?

You really can't go wrong with adopting a classic story arc formula and adapting it to your erotic story:

You have a main character who at the beginning of the story has an unmet erotic need.

There is some obstacle to the need.

In the story the character overcomes the obstacle, in a way that is somehow erotic.

For example: I'm a straight guy, but I'm working on a gay male story. The story is about a guy who's always thought of himself as straight but has a gay encounter on a trip to Las Vegas. The erotic "zing" to the story comes from a guy who thinks of himself as straight letting go and pushing his boundaries. It's a fascinating challenge for me, because I have to really let my imagination run free to put myself in the main character's shoes. It's not something I fantasize about in my day to day life.

If you're gay, and you're writing a story about a man who knows he is gay, you have to find some other way of making the encounter interesting, of creating some kind of tension or obstacle. That's what makes a story interesting.

Consider your Cody story. Nowhere in the story text do we learn that the narrator's name is "Troy." We only know that from the description. We don't know much about Troy. The story would be more interesting if we knew more about Troy and discovered that he had some kind of unfulfilled need, which gets filled during the course of the story. I didn't get that sense from scanning the first chapter.

The other thing is, you don't have much of a sex scene in your story.

The formula for success with a Literotica short story is:

1. A good setup, that sets up 1) the characters, 2) their needs, 3) an obstacle, 4) an erotic situation.

2. A good sex scene, which is hot on its own terms but also resolves the conflict/tension that is established during the setup.

If you are striving for a good score your story probably should be 7000 words or more.

 

[NotWise]

All of your stories were posted on March 21st while the site was in the midst of finding and solving a number of problems that had just surfaced. As a result, the views and votes you have now may not be representative of what you can expect in the future.

It sounds like you're measuring success with story stats; for a new author it's hard not to do it that way. If you care more about the stats than about what you write or how you write it, then identify authors who have the kind of success you want and do what they do.

If you'd rather do it your way, then keep working at it. Like KeithD said, there's no universal reader. There are readers for every niche, it just takes a while to find them.

As far as promoting more comments go, my best success has come from keeping readers emotionally engaged to the end. That comes at least in part from how you write the denouement.

 

[AlphaLyon]

awesome advice

I really appreciate each of you having taken the time to provide thoughtful answers on several really good key points.
I come from a non-erotica writing background, and I think the weird "stutter" in my logic (besides focusing too much on review scores) is that I was thinking (erroneously), "no one wants the development, they're here for the sex", when the truth is that they are intrinsically interconnected in the same way that you can't have a strong third act if you haven't done the heavy lifting in the first two.
I need to write how I'm used to writing and integrate erotic themes into it, rather than starting with an erotic idea and strictly focusing on that.
Thank you again for the help, and if anyone else has anything to contribute, I appreciate that too.

 

[gunhilltrain]

There is no code to crack. I've looked at your scores, and you're doing okay for someone who has only been at it for a few weeks. "Steamworks" got positive comments from the readers.

You won't always get above a four. I have a 2.76 on one story, probably because of the subject matter. (I personally like it anyway.) On many stories, I get no comments at all; on others, I get only four or five votes. People are distracted by things beyond this site.

Write a "Happily Ever After" only if the plot can justify it. In the society we live in, the majority of relationships (not counting one-night stands and so forth) will eventually fail, sometimes very quickly.

Not every writer will develop a "style." Experiment with different ways of doing things. Dialogue usually helps a lot, so work on that.

Try other sites too for a change of pace. I could PM you with info about that if you wish.

 

[8letters]

Absolutely, you should write what you want to read. The Lit audience is so freakin' large, you will find folks here who want to read it too.

Actually, I don't write stories I want to read. I write stories I want to write. My stories develop more slowly than I willing to accept as a reader.

That being said, there are big benefits to writing your stories in a way that appeals to a lot of people. Getting many positive comments on a story is my favorite part of publishing stories on Literotica.

 

[NotWise]

I really appreciate each of you having taken the time to provide thoughtful answers on several really good key points.
I come from a non-erotica writing background, and I think the weird "stutter" in my logic (besides focusing too much on review scores) is that I was thinking (erroneously), "no one wants the development, they're here for the sex", when the truth is that they are intrinsically interconnected in the same way that you can't have a strong third act if you haven't done the heavy lifting in the first two.
I need to write how I'm used to writing and integrate erotic themes into it, rather than starting with an erotic idea and strictly focusing on that.
Thank you again for the help, and if anyone else has anything to contribute, I appreciate that too.

That works. Write what you're used to, but when the time comes, don't close the bedroom door.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Disclaimer: I'm not a regular in GM, and different categories have different readers, so take my comments with appropriate amounts of salt.

I really appreciate each of you having taken the time to provide thoughtful answers on several really good key points.
I come from a non-erotica writing background, and I think the weird "stutter" in my logic (besides focusing too much on review scores) is that I was thinking (erroneously), "no one wants the development, they're here for the sex", when the truth is that they are intrinsically interconnected in the same way that you can't have a strong third act if you haven't done the heavy lifting in the first two.
I need to write how I'm used to writing and integrate erotic themes into it, rather than starting with an erotic idea and strictly focusing on that.
Thank you again for the help, and if anyone else has anything to contribute, I appreciate that too.

This seems like a good approach to me. I started out here worried that my stories didn't have enough sex, but I quickly found that a lot of readers are very much into the story and don't require very much sex at all, as long as the sex that does happen feels important.

I read Steamworks and my impression was similar to Simon's - the technical aspects are fine but I didn't feel much involvement with the narrator and there wasn't a lot of tension to the story, because he just kept on getting what he was after. It looks like you found plenty of readers who liked the story on the strength of the sex scenes, but developing things a bit more might broaden the appeal further.

 

[AlphaLyon]

I read Steamworks and my impression was similar to Simon's - the technical aspects are fine but I didn't feel much involvement with the narrator and there wasn't a lot of tension to the story, because he just kept on getting what he was after. It looks like you found plenty of readers who liked the story on the strength of the sex scenes, but developing things a bit more might broaden the appeal further.

Steamworks was basically a quick-write test of style. It is very different from what I'm comfortable writing, as I'm used to writing more historical fiction (non-erotic) that focuses on character development. "The Two Davids" is more of my true style, and I am more proud of that than I am of SW because of that.
I think you picked up on a good observation though. I would never have an MC in a story never face any conflict, challenge, or obstacle. That's boring for me to both read and to write, as the story has nowhere to go and there has not been any character development by the conclusion.

All of these comments have been EXACTLY what I've been looking for in analyzing my current writings here to help me improve, and I'm grateful to you all.

 

[Foot_Fetish_Fan]

Write about what you know and what you personally like. Trying to deviate from this formula will result in failure.

 

[8letters]

Writing is an art. There's no one right way to write. What works for me won't work for everyone else. Lots of people like my style of writing, but lots of people don't.

Write about what you know and what you personally like. Trying to deviate from this formula will result in failure.

This post makes it sound like you've got this writing thing all figured out. And I'm sure that for some people, this is helpful advice. But it's dead wrong for me. Just about all of my stories are made up from whole cloth, so I'm not writing what I know. And the type of story I enjoy writing develops more slowly than what I'm willing to accept as a reader.

 

[SimonDoom]

Write about what you know and what you personally like. Trying to deviate from this formula will result in failure.

I don't agree with this at all unless it's meant in a particular way.

I strongly disagree with the idea of "write what you know" as a limiting principle. If you want to write about situations and places and people that you know nothing about, go ahead. Don't ever feel afraid to do so.

The idea of "write what you know," to me, means that if you incorporate your own knowledge and wisdom and experience into your story it will be better. Even if the story is placed in a foreign setting, in a culture you don't know well, a way to make the story better is to incorporate your own life experience and what you know. The story will seem more authentic.

 

[KeithD]

I strongly disagree with the idea of "write what you know" as a limiting principle.

Me too. Write about what you know, what you can find out, or what you can imagine.

 

[Emirus]

Original quote from Electricblue66 who gives good advice (most of the time lol)
*
EB66: I didn't find my stride until I had a dozen stories under my belt. That was apprenticeship number one - how to write, getting basic techniques right. Then I began apprenticeship number two, how to find my natural style. Readers can't help you there, that's down to you as a writer. After twenty or so stories/chapters I knew myself as a writer, and then began to really write.
*
*
Me: My sixth story received a pleasing comment in which my writing was described as “sparse” but which he/she said suited the story. I didn’t understand what he/she meant initially but then I realised there was very little descriptive detail in my writing and I concentrated more on the story. Since then I’ve tried to improve that part of the content of my stories and after eighteen stories think I’m getting there. I’m not as good as EB and will never be as prolific as him but I agree entirely with his comment.

*****

Electricblue66: Feedback is fun, but I don't think you ever get enough to really help you become a better writer. Only more writing does that.
*
*
Me: Very little feedback is helpful in making you a better writer. Most feedback either tells you they enjoyed the story (which is very pleasing) or they thought it complete shit (which isn’t any help at all if they don’t tell you why and even then it’s rarely any help in understanding them).

*****

Electricblue66: One more comment - don't try to write what you think readers want, that's an impossible task. Write well, and readers will come.
*
*
ME: If you build it they will come. When you start, and this is advice I’ve heard many times, use your own personal knowledge as much as you can when you start out. The first submission by a friend of mine was a series. It’s very good as acknowledged by the ratings and comments and it was enhanced by their knowledge of the real world. An outstanding example of this approach is Melissababy’s “My Fall and Rise.” However most writers don’t hit the ground running the vast majority of us have to climb a steep ladder.

*****

Electricblue66: Keep writing, grasshopper .
*
*
So if you’re like the vast majority of writers, one of whom is me, don’t give up your day job but don’t give up writing as long as you enjoy it. Don’t write about something you don’t understand. Write for your own pleasure and hope others will enjoy it as much as you.
________________

 

[lovecraft68]

Simply put just write your damn story, and don't worry about who wants what. The people who will want what you produce will find you.

If you're looking to write to a formula that will get the most attention then you're not writing or being creative, you're pandering.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Actually, I don't write stories I want to read. I write stories I want to write. My stories develop more slowly than I willing to accept as a reader.

That being said, there are big benefits to writing your stories in a way that appeals to a lot of people. Getting many positive comments on a story is my favorite part of publishing stories on Literotica.

I guess that stories I want to read and those I want to write as basically the same ones. I can't really make a distinction. Isn't that how most writers see it?

Appealing to a lot of readers - sure, it's great, but I don't think about what the comments are going to be like. Sometimes I don't get any comments at all anyway. There was one time I rewrote a story based on somebody's comment, and whoever it was - he was correct. But that was an anomaly, I believe. It might happen again - I don't know, maybe every five years, maybe every ten.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

Write about what you know and what you personally like. Trying to deviate from this formula will result in failure.

I would say that is a good place to start. Once you have become competent in that, branch out. Take risks. Find out what else you may become.

 

[AlphaLyon]

What I've learned after a month here.

There continues to be some great advice in this thread, and I hope it can help others who are both new to the site and writing in general. I wanted to share a quick update with some of the things I have learned after my first 30 days (or so) here:

Serotonin chasing is a bitch.
I came in with misplaced focus. My goal was to get the views, get the reviews, get the stars. I wanted that immediate feedback and acclaim, but it doesn't work like that. Sure, we should write for ourselves, but at the same time, it's nice to get that validation of watching positive engagement tick up. Once I was able to break myself of that mentality (thanks in large part to the feedback I've received), I've been a lot less disappointed in chasing the "please like me" goal.

You're not as good as you think...but you can be.
I come from a very different writing genre, and erotica is my first foray into a different genre. I had misplaced bravado to think that just because I could write in one style, that it would automatically translate over. I also thought that because the first few stories I read were popular despite being poorly written with glaring grammatical, spelling, and stylistic errors, that I would have no problem with getting acclaim quickly. Wrong; so very very wrong.
The adage of "the best way to be a better writer is to just write" is very true, and because of that, I realized that I need to focus on quality over quantity.

Stop trying to attract interest from those uninterested.
The readership here has very particular interests, and many of the most popular themes/genres aren't things I'm interested in. Instead of trying to win that audience over, it's more important to deliver the best stories to those who are into the genre you are writing. Again, quality over quantity, only this time in regards to readership. "You can please some of the people some of the time" kinda thing.

There is no formula.
Period. Bad stories will get likes. Good stories will get overlooked. Write to write, and not to be read.


I look forward to revisiting this thread and updating as my journey here continues, and thanks again to all of you who have been a help on this adventure.