Courts Have Power to Hold Sex Offenders INDEFINITELY??

[Selena_Kitt]

The Department of Justice on Monday asked a full appeals court to rule that the federal government has the power to hold sex offenders in custody indefinitely beyond the end of their prison terms.





Really? Seriously?

What country am I in????????

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

It's not that I feel any sympathy for sex offenders, but if we start saying it's okay to make them stay in prison indefinitely because of who they are or what they did in the past, we are opening the gates to allow the penal system to do the same thing to anyone. This is not good.

 

[scotsmitch2001]

altough not from states ...I have to agree....all over the western world there has been a slow erosion of rights and freedoms that we take for granted
and what do they class as a sex offender?when the pendulum swings back and gays and lesbians are again picked on?
slippery slope guys

 

[Selena_Kitt]

It's not that I feel any sympathy for sex offenders, but if we start saying it's okay to make them stay in prison indefinitely because of who they are or what they did in the past, we are opening the gates to allow the penal system to do the same thing to anyone. This is not good.

The precedent is scary. REALLY scary.

Esp since the "sex offender list" just keeps growing with bizarre and silly cases like teens have sex with teens, etc. They charged kids on Myspace and with cell phones with child pornography for posting THEIR OWN pictures on the Internet, or sending them to another teen, and put them on a sex offender list, for pete's sake.

It's really getting Orwellian out there.

 

[jomar]

It's a slippery slope for sure. But I think what they are talking about is some guys at Butner, which is a state psychiatric hospital (they are in the prison/hospital part, I guess), who have committed some particularly heinous abuse and whose treatment has not been successful whatsoever so they are almost 100% to abuse again. Don't know what the right answer is, but yeah, what's next...

 

[xssve]

A disturbing precedent - however, it does say they are being held in prison hospital - the downside of the insanity defense is that if you're sentenced to a mental institution, they can hold you until they think you're cured.

At least, that's how it used to be, it's unclear to me from the article, I'd have to look at the actual sentencing agreement.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

A disturbing precedent - however, it does say they are being held in prison hospital - the downside of the insanity defense is that if you're sentenced to a mental institution, they can hold you until they think you're cured.

Yeah, that would be more reassuring, actually, if that was the case.

 

[Jack_Samuel]

unfortunately we only have two options freedom or safety there is no govt available atm who seems willing to provide both

 

[TheeGoatPig]

unfortunately we only have two options freedom or safety there is no govt available atm who seems willing to provide both

They are polar opposites of each other is why. Freedom is the ability to scoff at safety and have your fun anyway.

Then there is the problem with true freedom. There wouldn't be any laws, which hurts people. Where does the law draw the line? Who do you punish for what? It's all a sticky situation, and the governments of the world have to ebb and flow with the societies they govern, so that their laws reflect the people writing them, and affected by them.

Too many problems that can't be solved.

 

[Jack_Samuel]

They are polar opposites of each other is why. Freedom is the ability to scoff at safety and have your fun anyway.

Then there is the problem with true freedom. There wouldn't be any laws, which hurts people. Where does the law draw the line? Who do you punish for what? It's all a sticky situation, and the governments of the world have to ebb and flow with the societies they govern, so that their laws reflect the people writing them, and affected by them.

Too many problems that can't be solved.

Too many problems that cant be solved i agree. But thats because we are trying to fix the problem rather then focusing on causes.

IMHO the governments responsibility is to encourage growth as a race. Not until the public raises their level will there be any solutions. As you say lets all scoff at the law and have our fun taking into account of those around us.

Not until we all mature will that scoffing be possible. But thats my rant

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Too many problems that cant be solved i agree. But thats because we are trying to fix the problem rather then focusing on causes.

IMHO the governments responsibility is to encourage growth as a race. Not until the public raises their level will there be any solutions. As you say lets all scoff at the law and have our fun taking into account of those around us.

Not until we all mature will that scoffing be possible. But thats my rant

no, government is there for one group of people to control another. Pure and simple, government is a repression of freedom. I'm not saying if this is a good or bad thing. Some parts are good, some bad, some could go either way.That is just the way it is.

 

[Jack_Samuel]

but there is only one group.

people need to see that petty differences should not be a reason for a division. But i see that as part of the problem. No matter which "group" peeps feel they belong to their needs to be elements of compromise within the greater group. Dont wait for a govt to come sort it out for you. We are adults. Talk. Discuss. Give and take

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Shoot the bastards and be done with them.

 

[Jack_Samuel]

Shoot the bastards and be done with them.

you trust god to sort them out lol

 

[Zeb_Carter]

you trust god to sort them out lol

He doesn't care if god sorts them out.

 

[R. Richard]

Let me tell you of another option.

In Mexico, a 'mentally ill' person MUST be given full professional treatment. If not, the person MUST be released from jail. In many, many jurisdictions in Mexico,there is no professional treatment available. Thus the Mexican legal system dumps the mentally ill on the street. You can't really imagine the results.

In the area where I live, a lot of mentally ill Mexicans used to illegally emigrate from Mexico and then work their way up to what is called 'Mex Town.' Once in Mex Town, they would begin to terrorize the residents. If they were caught by the scumbags, mostly they would be deported to Mexico and the cycle would start again.

I developed a counseling program with a 100% success rate. The scumbags didn't like the rumors they heard about my conseling program. They then tried to roust the inhabitants of Mex Town. All they got was, "No hablo inglez."

This has led me to believe that the intelligence level of Mexicans increases once they get to Los Estados Unidos.

 

[Boxlicker101]

altough not from states ...I have to agree....all over the western world there has been a slow erosion of rights and freedoms that we take for granted
and what do they class as a sex offender?when the pendulum swings back and gays and lesbians are again picked on?
slippery slope guys

I don't like the idea at all. I am a sex offender. Until the mid-sixties, it was illegal to eat pussy in CA, and I did so anyhow. I could have actually gone to jail for that. I was also sucked off a few times by gay men. I was never arrested but, if I had been, I might be a registered sex offender right now.

Presumably, this is intended to keep the likes of John Couey locked up, but some people would actually love to use it against anybody who does sexual things they don't approve of. It is a slippery slope indeed.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I don't like the idea at all. I am a sex offender. Until the mid-sixties, it was illegal to eat pussy in CA, and I did so anyhow. I could have actually gone to jail for that. I was also sucked off a few times by gay men. I was never arrested but, if I had been, I might be a registered sex offender right now.

Presumably, this is intended to keep the likes of John Couey locked up, but some people would actually love to use it against anybody who does sexual things they don't approve of. It is a slippery slope indeed.

Good thing you never got put on "The List".

 

[lesbiaphrodite]

It's so strange, isn't it? The idea that someone could be held indefinitely worries me on many levels. I'm not proud to admit I have a criminal record (not for a sex offense, granted). And, despite the fact that I lead a very mild-mannered life now and keep it together, I am still viewed with suspicion by the law and by many others who know about my past. That's bad enough. I can't begin to fathom how hard life would be if you were incarcerated and could be just kept there until somebody decides otherwise. *shivers*

 

[xssve]

http://www.slate.com/id/2211169/

Say you're a middle school principal who has just confiscated a cell phone from a 14-year-old boy, only to discover it contains a nude photo of his 13-year-old girlfriend. Do you: a) call the boy's parents in despair, b) call the girl's parents in despair, or c) call the police? More and more, the answer is d) all of the above. Which could result in criminal charges for both of your students and their eventual designation as sex offenders.

...

Last month, three girls (ages 14 or 15) in Greensburg, Pa., were charged with disseminating child pornography for sexting their boyfriends. The boys who received the images were charged with possession. A teenager in Indiana faces felony obscenity charges for sending a picture of his genitals to female classmates. A 15-year-old girl in Ohio and a 14-year-old girl in Michigan were charged with felonies for sending along nude images of themselves to classmates. Some of these teens have pleaded guilty to lesser charges; others have not. If convicted, these young people may have to register as sex offenders, in some cases for a decade or two. Similar charges have been filed in cases in Alabama, Connecticut, Florida, New Jersey, New York, Texas, Utah, and Wisconsin.

There was a case in Utah where an underage girl had consensual sex with her underage boyfriend and they were both charged with statutory rape.

The law of unintended consequences when it comes to mandatory sentencing laws might be at work here, in many cases, these charges are mandatory, not discretionary.

I would suggest a better appeals process, which for practical purposes - mandatory sentencing has already overloaded the court system - would probably take the form of some sort of consensus on plea agreement guidelines.

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK, Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper is held in a secure mental institution.

It has been suggested recently that he is no longer "a danger to the public" because his mental condition has improved.

However, all that will happen is that he MIGHT be transferred to a jail instead of the secure mental hospital.

Unfortunately too many of the prisoners in our system are mentally ill. Some are mentally ill AND criminal. Some are mentally ill and imprisoned for acts, heinous in themselves, that were a symptom of their illness.

What is certain is that our prisons are neither staffed nor equipped to treat mentally ill prisoners effectively. All they can do is contain them.

Og

 

[R. Richard]

What is certain is that our prisons are neither staffed nor equipped to treat mentally ill prisoners effectively. All they can do is contain them.

Og

Actually, there is another option. The option is 100% effective and also cost effective. However,many people won't approve use of the option. And then they complain that their taxes are too high.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Actually, there is another option. The option is 100% effective and also cost effective. However,many people won't approve use of the option. And then they complain that their taxes are too high.

Problem with that solution is that you, yourself, probably wouldn't be here today if it was in place...

 

[R. Richard]

Problem with that solution is that you, yourself, probably wouldn't be here today if it was in place...

Actually, in my earlier days, any number of people tried. They only proved that the solution works.

 

[Boota]

There are certain offenses where I believe the person should NEVER get out of jail. A pedophile who molests a child cannot be rehabilitated. Once the pedophile is in prison that is where he/she should remain. Usually they get released because they behave as model prisoners. Of course it is only because there are no children to victimize. The same with some of the extremely heinous acts that convicts at the prison where my dad works have committed. If they are going to be allowed to live then they should never leave the walls of the prison again.

It is disturbing, I'll agree, about the umbrella of sex offenses that can be used to lock a person up indefinitely. Not everyone on the sex offender list belongs there. There are three black men on the list here locally who are on it for taking a white girl home from a club and having sex with her. They assumed, since she was a bar, that she was twenty one and not fifteen. The girl's parents didn't pursue criminal charges against the men until they learned they were black.