Could somebody explain haiku to me
- Thread starter _Land
- Start date
In the beginning is the form.
In Japanese, a haiku is traditionally 5-7-5 sound syllables. All languages cannot duplicate this method of counting syllables so foreign language writers must decide to either follow the method by writing 5-7-5 syllables in their own language. However if they prefer to imitate the product, the translated Japanese haiku, their poems must consist of less words.
In English we cannot have both method and translated product correct in one poem so each of us must choose one system or the other. Beginners (especially if better acquainted with Western poetry) often do well to follow the 5-7-5 discipline at first. Later, when they become comfortable with saying what they want said in the least words, as it is easier to switch to the shorter styled haiku in a natural movement. This does not mean that 5-7-5 haiku are beginners' work; many, many very good writers insist on remaining with the form scheme.
In Japanese, a haiku is traditionally 5-7-5 sound syllables. All languages cannot duplicate this method of counting syllables so foreign language writers must decide to either follow the method by writing 5-7-5 syllables in their own language. However if they prefer to imitate the product, the translated Japanese haiku, their poems must consist of less words.
In English we cannot have both method and translated product correct in one poem so each of us must choose one system or the other. Beginners (especially if better acquainted with Western poetry) often do well to follow the 5-7-5 discipline at first. Later, when they become comfortable with saying what they want said in the least words, as it is easier to switch to the shorter styled haiku in a natural movement. This does not mean that 5-7-5 haiku are beginners' work; many, many very good writers insist on remaining with the form scheme.
G
Guest
Guest
It is a fun form to work with, and I agree much easier for beginners to learn. I think I remember this one from junior high.
Petting my white cat
Long strokes from head to her tail
Elevator Butt
I don't think my teacher was too impressed - lol
Petting my white cat
Long strokes from head to her tail
Elevator Butt
I don't think my teacher was too impressed - lol
G
Guest
Guest
laughing - oh, very close! Right on top of it, in fact!!
_Land
Bear Sage
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Posts
- 1,249
I dont know that _This_ explained any better is there a simple answer?
_____________________________________________
Actually, we've been struggling with that question for a few days.
You might want to check out this thread.
It turns out that most of my bad haiku might better be termed bad syllabic poetry.
__________________
_____________________________________________
Actually, we've been struggling with that question for a few days.
You might want to check out this thread.
It turns out that most of my bad haiku might better be termed bad syllabic poetry.
__________________
The base criteria for a Haiku is syllable count. 7-5-7 The first line has to have 7 syllables, 2nd line 5 syllables and 3rd line 7 syllables. There are other rules governing pattern. Check out http://edsitement.neh.gov/view_lesson_plan.asp?ID=250
It a complete primer for writing Haiku.
It a complete primer for writing Haiku.
_Land
Bear Sage
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Posts
- 1,249
How is this Haiku in compareson to mine
'haiku' & haiku
by Senna Jawa ©
stretching -- head
speeding on the internet highways
the butt glued to the chai
vs
With gentle kisses
planted on your tender lips
my love declared
Does it have to be more obscure?
How bout this?
cant breath cant help me
to late elephant shit big load
on my bad haiku
'haiku' & haiku
by Senna Jawa ©
stretching -- head
speeding on the internet highways
the butt glued to the chai
vs
With gentle kisses
planted on your tender lips
my love declared
Does it have to be more obscure?
How bout this?
cant breath cant help me
to late elephant shit big load
on my bad haiku
I should also tell you that I'm no english teacher either (even though haiku is Japanese). I don't mean to sound ruffled or anything. I'm all to haapy to lend a hand or 2 if I can.
Haiku compliant or not, I'd take the 3rd one in your last post over any shit about a panda or "bamboo growing to the sky". Check out that link.. What I did was put "haiku rules" into a yahoo search and that was one of the things I got back.
Haiku compliant or not, I'd take the 3rd one in your last post over any shit about a panda or "bamboo growing to the sky". Check out that link.. What I did was put "haiku rules" into a yahoo search and that was one of the things I got back.
_Land
Bear Sage
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2002
- Posts
- 1,249
Quite frankly until I came here i had though that haiku was only japanese, and didnt know it was an english form too, so i am not discarding any advice yet, just wanting to learn. If the elephant haiku is the closest then perhaps haiku would be best used as a form of sarcasm?
It is interesting to me, and i am an unlearned scholar trying to learn, with out the time or resources for proper courses on the matter.
It is interesting to me, and i am an unlearned scholar trying to learn, with out the time or resources for proper courses on the matter.
Check out this haiku summation. There are tons of them out there.
To sum up: — a haiku should evoke the essentials of a keenly observed moment within nature; it should include a "season-word"; it should be written in three lines of either 5-7-5 syllables or 2-3-2 beats; it should avoid the use of traditional non-Japanese poetic devices. It should be untitled. You will discover many poems published under the title "haiku" that do not observe these rules — many will have a genuine haiku quality for reasons not fully discussed here, and be perfectly admissible as haiku. Others might well be mis-named as haiku — but be quite acceptable under the label of "short poem". The Haiku Society of America spent six years in committees trying to come up with a definition satisfactory for use by dictionaries. Even now they are not completely happy with it.
To sum up: — a haiku should evoke the essentials of a keenly observed moment within nature; it should include a "season-word"; it should be written in three lines of either 5-7-5 syllables or 2-3-2 beats; it should avoid the use of traditional non-Japanese poetic devices. It should be untitled. You will discover many poems published under the title "haiku" that do not observe these rules — many will have a genuine haiku quality for reasons not fully discussed here, and be perfectly admissible as haiku. Others might well be mis-named as haiku — but be quite acceptable under the label of "short poem". The Haiku Society of America spent six years in committees trying to come up with a definition satisfactory for use by dictionaries. Even now they are not completely happy with it.
Senna Jawa
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 3,272
Re: So this would be a haiku
This is not a haiku, this is not a poem. This is just a statement consisting of overused phrases._Land said:
TheDR4KE
Breathing the sensuous Om
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2001
- Posts
- 2,223
think of the heart
Haiku is about a minimalist expression of concepts that we can readily recognise, but whose depth can be explored for longer. The season word is important in this context because it carries a lot of meaning, and particularly in relation to the cycles of nature as they also apply to humanity.
Don't try to define haiku, feel the haiku. Start with a poem and cut it down to 5-7-5 if you want to. Then cut it down further still. Look at all the ideas that it expresses. Think about how those ideas reflect the world around you, and thus how refering to something in the world can reflect your idea.
Haiku in japanese are not written in 3 lines. The 5-7-5 rhythm is natural to hear and remember, in a similar way to iambic pentameter just plain sounding good rhythmically in english.
Write your haiku in one line. If it is a sentence, it is not poetic enough. Too much poetry is just line breaks inserted into prose...
Say it out aloud. Where does it take you? What does it show you? Do you get some complexity out of it?
The 'planted' is a good place to work on your haiku. The declared detracts from the planting. Is soil tender when you plant something? Maybe ready or fertile would be a better word?
delicate kisses
planted on fertile lips -
will my love take?
It's quick and rough, but do you see how the concepts work together a little more? I would like to see the letting go of what has been planted, letting it grow if it will, or wither if that is to be. The declaration doesn't have enough tension, but I do see the point, so it is a good draft to work from.
Quack,
the D
Haiku is about a minimalist expression of concepts that we can readily recognise, but whose depth can be explored for longer. The season word is important in this context because it carries a lot of meaning, and particularly in relation to the cycles of nature as they also apply to humanity.
Don't try to define haiku, feel the haiku. Start with a poem and cut it down to 5-7-5 if you want to. Then cut it down further still. Look at all the ideas that it expresses. Think about how those ideas reflect the world around you, and thus how refering to something in the world can reflect your idea.
Haiku in japanese are not written in 3 lines. The 5-7-5 rhythm is natural to hear and remember, in a similar way to iambic pentameter just plain sounding good rhythmically in english.
Write your haiku in one line. If it is a sentence, it is not poetic enough. Too much poetry is just line breaks inserted into prose...
Say it out aloud. Where does it take you? What does it show you? Do you get some complexity out of it?
The 'planted' is a good place to work on your haiku. The declared detracts from the planting. Is soil tender when you plant something? Maybe ready or fertile would be a better word?
delicate kisses
planted on fertile lips -
will my love take?
It's quick and rough, but do you see how the concepts work together a little more? I would like to see the letting go of what has been planted, letting it grow if it will, or wither if that is to be. The declaration doesn't have enough tension, but I do see the point, so it is a good draft to work from.
Quack,
the D
Senna Jawa
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 3,272
Gee...! Jee!! There was an author who called his 7-5-7 poems antihaiku (the stress is mine).d7dlp0 said:
Regards
Senna Jawa
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 3,272
Re: think of the heart
. I am smiling but it's true. Very bad pseudo-poetry (which of course has nothing to do with haiku except for mocking haiku with that 5-7-5 pattern).
Regards,
No, this is not "quick and rough". This is horribleTheDR4KE said:
. I am smiling but it's true. Very bad pseudo-poetry (which of course has nothing to do with haiku except for mocking haiku with that 5-7-5 pattern).Regards,
TheDR4KE
Breathing the sensuous Om
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2001
- Posts
- 2,223
_Land said:
Getting better
The spacing is good, and you'll notice that they tend to look more minimal when you leave out all capitals and punctuation, other than the - (which has a specific name that I don't remember now, doh)
You might try to make the turn around a little more unexpected now. Eg:
sudden flood
unbidden and painful -
hurt drying eyes
It's also interesting to note that although 'flood' is a season word, the season during which it is common changes around the world. Here it would be summer, and the emotional pain however would more likely be indicated by autumn where things first die back. So the picture gets a bit confused.
I quite like the simple haiku poem, but it has too many words. You can leave out the 'A's I think. Also, haiku are small, but not simple. They are very complex, but they do not have many words.
short season
hidden meaning -
haiku
The leaves from fall are dead. Wouldn't their being gone be an indicator of being over the pain? Or, if you are over it because of having gone cold-hearted, then you would write a different poem.
By the way, in haiku it is common for poets to work off another's poem. So taking one you see something in and changing it, even slightly, to reflect that something different _you_ see is completely acceptable. It's like a game between poets, holding up a mirror to the world and turning it this way and that a little to highlight different details.
Quack
the D
Senna Jawa
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- May 13, 2002
- Posts
- 3,272
Re: How is this Haiku in compareson to mine
stretching -- head
speeding on the internet highways
the butt glued to the chair
My poems, as I posted them on Literotica, are not meant for a haiku instruction. There is no shortcut. First know what haiku is from Masters, from Basho, Buson, Issa, Shiki, Keiko Imaoka.
And if I had to choose for U one haiku critic to read then most likely it would be Blyth (just take it easy when he dwells on Zen and DO NOT try any Zen bullshit yourself. Such things should happen naturally). These days U can get from most any bookstore several great titles, newer and in a way better, also by others, e.g.:
And don't rush, what's your hurry? Do not gamble on being a master in something before U know what that something is. Give yourself a week, then three weeks, etc.
Regards,
Elswhere in the thread U wonder if U r a "literary idiot"? But can't U at least copy and paste without botchering a poem? Can't U check the result of your copying? My poem is:_Land said:
stretching -- head
speeding on the internet highways
the butt glued to the chair
My poems, as I posted them on Literotica, are not meant for a haiku instruction. There is no shortcut. First know what haiku is from Masters, from Basho, Buson, Issa, Shiki, Keiko Imaoka.
And if I had to choose for U one haiku critic to read then most likely it would be Blyth (just take it easy when he dwells on Zen and DO NOT try any Zen bullshit yourself. Such things should happen naturally). These days U can get from most any bookstore several great titles, newer and in a way better, also by others, e.g.:
- R.Hass, The essential haiku. Versions of Basho, Buson & Issa;
- Y.Sawa & E.M.Shiffert, Haiku master Buson.
And don't rush, what's your hurry? Do not gamble on being a master in something before U know what that something is. Give yourself a week, then three weeks, etc.
Regards,
Similar threads
