Correct english vs charactor and plot design.

[Naughty Troll]

I plan on posting stories to Lit. A friend has shown me the editing that is involved to get a story ready for posting.

Speech:
I have seen editing comments on characters speech with in quotes. Why would I want to correct his/her grammar? By changing a crude wild person that is what I want into a grammatically correct character I feel I loose the essence of the character.

Fragment sentences:
If I am trying to make a point of thought trailing off......
Isn't this a good way to show my thought trailing off or being changed in mid thought or sentence?

Character background:
When I have a character and have designed him/her why should I change the character to what the editor wants. I feel very strongly that I should not. This is my character. If the character is not to his/her liking shouldn't I get examples of what they see or feel about the character.

Phrases and Sentences:
Why are common terms not acceptable? If it describes the thoughts of the person every day thoughts is essential in character and plot development.

 

[Weird Harold]

Speech:
I have seen editing comments on characters speech with in quotes. Why would I want to correct his/her grammar? By changing a crude wild person that is what I want into a grammatically correct character I feel I loose the essence of the character.

Almost anything goes inside quotation marks. Note, I said "almost anything."

Your character needs to be intelligible to the reader, so you need some minimal standards of grammar and spelling in their speech. If you try to depict a dialect or ungrammatical speach too trealistically, you will lose the reader to prolonged attempts at translation.

Fragment sentences:
If I am trying to make a point of thought trailing off......
Isn't this a good way to show my thought trailing off or being changed in mid thought or sentence?

It depends on the POV of the story. It's generally a good idea to have a literate narrative voice. Still, if the story requires an illeterate's point of view, then the same principle as what I said above about character speech applies.

It sounds as if your story may be "breaking the wall" between narrator and reader by directing asides and parenthetical thoughts directly to the reader -- as if you were telling the story face-to-face. That style generally makes a story sound like "a letter to Penthouse" and is often percieved as "amateurish" by the readers. That's not necessarily a bad thing if that's what you intend and take steps to counter a general prejudice against that style of erotica.

Character background:
When I have a character and have designed him/her why should I change the character to what the editor wants. I feel very strongly that I should not. This is my character. If the character is not to his/her liking shouldn't I get examples of what they see or feel about the character.

Consider why the editor wants youto change the character. If the editor didn't say, then ask. Always remember that the story is yours and the final decision on how it is written is yours. Try to take the editor's comments into consideration without rejecting them because they don't fit your original conception -- They just might be intended to strengthen the character's definition.

Phrases and Sentences:
Why are common terms not acceptable? If it describes the thoughts of the person every day thoughts is essential in character and plot development.

"Common terms" might mean something different to you than they do to your readers. The readership here at Literotica is global in nature. Common terms in one region are gibberish in another region. For example, if you pat a woman's "fanny," are you patting her front or back?

Any time you deviate from "proper" grammar and ignore other "rules" of writing, you walk a very fine line between style and readability. If your story is hard to read because of the style or character dialect, it will lose readers who don't want to put forth the effort to deal with translation to something they can understand. The easier your story is to read, the easier it is to draw the reader into your vision of the story.

 

[Naughty Troll]

Quesitons

Originally posted by Weird Harold

It depends on the POV of the story. It's generally a good idea to have a literate narrative voice. Still, if the story requires an illeterate's point of view, then the same principle as what I said above about character speech applies.

It sounds as if your story may be "breaking the wall" between narrator and reader by directing asides and parenthetical thoughts directly to the reader -- as if you were telling the story face-to-face. That style generally makes a story sound like "a letter to Penthouse" and is often percieved as "amateurish" by the readers. That's not necessarily a bad thing if that's what you intend and take steps to counter a general prejudice against that style of erotica.

Actually, playboy and penthouse were my first choice for publication. Over the years I have changed but I believe the basic style is the same. So, if I need improvement how do I find an editor who will work with me in getting better grammar and POV while keeping my plot and characters intact?

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Quesitons

Actually, playboy and penthouse were my first choice for publication. Over the years I have changed but I believe the basic style is the same. So, if I need improvement how do I find an editor who will work with me in getting better grammar and POV while keeping my plot and characters intact?

When I have a story ready to edit, I send queries to a dozen or so volunteer editors (including one's I've had good result from before if they're still editing.)

If I don't get the kind of editing I need from the first try, I try another dozen until I find at least three that I can work with. Killermuffin is one of the best if you can get her to squeeze in a story -- She's also one of the busiest.

 

[Naughty Troll]

Re: Re: Quesitons

When I have a story ready to edit, I send queries to a dozen or so volunteer editors (including one's I've had good result from before if they're still editing.)

If I don't get the kind of editing I need from the first try, I try another dozen until I find at least three that I can work with. Killermuffin is one of the best if you can get her to squeeze in a story -- She's also one of the busiest.

So I can have say 3 editors helping me with my story at once? Then decide which is going better?

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Re: Quesitons

So I can have say 3 editors helping me with my story at once? Then decide which is going better?

The last story I submitted, I took the best advice of six editors and ignored what I disagreed with. (That story was chosen for inclusion in the Literotica book.) Each editor found different errors in the story and very few found the same problems as the others. There were a few things that all six editors independently cited as requiring more work -- I took that to mean I was probably wrong and fixed the problem.

(Incidently, that story is in a "conversational" first person POV. You might want to compare it to your story to see how it differs from "Penthouse Letter" style. It's Two Bags For The Bride and currently number three on the humor and satire top stories list.)

Ther eis nothing that says you need to restrict the number of opinions you get on your story. What I look for is an editor who questions why I did something a certain way, and/or explains why they think I should do it their way. Essentially, if an editor doesn't use the track changes and hidden comments function of MS Word (or WordPerfect) then they aren't doing the kind of editing I need.

 

[Naughty Troll]

I will check your story

I am wondering is their any source to learn good writing while keeping your style. I do like my style thoug I know I need work on grammar and especially POV.

Incidently I have asked 2 editors now and will be sending out a third.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Grammar and style are independent. You can't break the rules of grammar unless you know what they are. There is a really good reason for this, not just arbitrary pronouncements.

First, you should understand the purpose of grammar and punctuation. Grammar and punctuation exist to maintain clarity between writer and reader. We have specific rules for grammar and punctuation that evolved through common usage. We don't have a Grammar Czar in Washington creating rules to drive people nuts; they just happened.

You must have good grammar. Not necessarily perfect, no such thing, but you must have good grammar. If you are considering submitting stories to playboy, who accepts 12 a year out of about 20,000 submissions, then there is no easy way around it.

Building a story is like building a house. Your plot, theme, characters, subplots are all parts of the house. Grammar is the material that your house is constructed with. Your quality of grammar supplies the quality of workmanship that goes into building your story.

I have no less than five books dedicated solely to grammar. Were I you, I'd begin with Strunk and White's Elements of Style. I would also invest in a book dedicated to punctuation. There are spelling dictionaries out there, as well.

No offense intended, but you need help with your spelling. There, their, and they're are three of the most important and most misused words you'll ever see. It's and its are, too.

Don't worry about your style at all or someone else corrupting it because that's not going to happen. You have your own, unique voice and it comes through in your writing.

I would recommend you invest in Michael Seidman's Fiction: The Art and Craft of Writing and Getting Published.

I would also suggest that you check around at bookstores, a college one is a good place, for a text or workbork on English usage of some sort.



Listen to Weird Harold, the man knows what he's talking about.

 

[Naughty Troll]

Mo offense taken

You probably know who I am just by that alone. please dont say here if you do. I do recognize that part of my grammar needs work. I am worried about the times I do break the rules on purpose. I will be buying those books as you suggested KM. Thank You.

 

[KillerMuffin]

No problem.