Corpse photos

[cantdog]

This is the story from Lakeland. There's by way of an international incident. I wonder if I can get some feedback from the AH?

They don't name the website because it's called now thats fucked up dot com or something along those lines. The photos of body parts in the street and Iraqi corpses are on a section of the site anyone can see without registering, so you can see what the fuss is if you go look.

Published Thursday, September 29, 2005
PORN/WAR SITE
Army: No Charges For Photos on Web

By ROBERT BURNS
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- After an initial look at complaints about U.S. soldiers posting photos of Iraq war dead on an Internet site, Army investigators concluded they had too little evidence to pursue criminal charges.

An Islamic civil rights group called on the Defense Department to take action, while the Lakeland man who runs the Web site said Wednesday he has no intention of taking the photos down or stopping future postings.

The controversy centers on grisly photographs of what appear to be war dead. The Web site says they were posted by U.S. soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan who, in exchange, received free access to online pornography.

Army officials expressed concern that the matter could trigger an anti-American backlash in the Middle East. One official said the Army was considering the possibility of banning the use of personal cameras and personal computers by soldiers while they are in war zones.

Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman, called the corpse postings despicable and unacceptable.

Paul Boyce, an Army spokesman, said the Army's Criminal Investigation Division in recent days concluded from a preliminary inquiry that there was insufficient evidence to pursue felony charges against anyone.

However, he said, "While this may not rise to the level of a felony crime, it's still serious."

An Islamic civil rights group expressed disappointment in the Army's decision not to pursue criminal charges.

"Their conclusion would be entirely premature," said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. "For this to be treated in a manner that suggests the Army does not take this seriously is only going to further harm our nation's image and interests around the world, particularly the Muslim world."

Boyce and other officials said that while no criminal investigation would be pursued based on currently available evidence, disciplinary action may be taken against individual soldiers if it can be verified that they used government computers to transmit digital photos of Iraqi war dead. Such an act could be deemed a violation of Article 134 of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, which proscribes behavior that undermines good order and discipline or brings discredit to the military.

Gen. Peter Schoomaker, the Army chief of staff, sent a message Wednesday to soldiers in the field reminding them of guidelines issued by the Defense Department and the Army regarding "Internet safety." He referred mainly to prohibitions on posting information or photos that jeopardize troop security. He did not mention the corpse photos, and spokesmen said his message was not in reaction to news stories this week describing the Web site that offers access to online pornography in exchange for corpse photos.

Some of the photos show dismembered corpses, described in accompanying Web postings as Iraqis killed in U.S. attacks. Some show what appear to be internal human organs; others show what look like charred human remains.

The Web site is owned by 27-year-old Chris Wilson, who oversees it from his apartment in Lakeland, Fla. He started it about 18 months ago as a place where men could post nude photos of their wives and girlfriends.

Boyce said Army investigators could not verify that U.S. soldiers were involved because the Web site postings were anonymous and investigators were unsure of the authenticity and origin of the photos. He said the matter had been referred to U.S. commanders in Iraq.

Associated Press writer Mitch Stacy contributed to this report.

"This could trigger some kind of anti-American backlash!" That's what the Army fellow says. So that's the reason, boys and girls. They hate our websites.

I'm going to Google around a bit and see if I can find more about this. I know I saw a news article which came out as the complaint was filed. It contained language from the Army which was very stern indeed. They were going to prefer felony charges against all concerned, in that article, which was only yesterday or the day before. Today, the word is the Army has dropped the probe entirely.

I found this. It gives the flavor and also the links.

 

[oggbashan]

Pictures of dead Iraqis appear on our TV news channels almost every night after the so-called watershed of 9pm. Generally they are in long shot with little detail.

What appears to be different about these photos is the apparent 'triumphalism' of the soldiers included in the shots. Whether these pictures are genuine, or digitally faked or staged elsewhere like some (but NOT all) earlier pictures of prisoner abuse by UK soldiers is open to question.

If they are genuine then the US Army must be embarrassed by them. They could be a propaganda coup for those opposed to the continuing US and Allied presence in Iraq. Pictures of executions of hostages by the 'rebels' is one thing. Pictures like this jeopardise the moral standing of those assisting the Iraqi government to restore order in Iraq.

Og

 

[HollyHawkk]

WTF! Are these the same middle east people who... execute American soldiers on there TV channels!

 

[cantdog]

WTF! Are these the same middle east people who... execute American soldiers on there TV channels!

That's a mistake, perhaps, but it's the same mistake the soldiers on the site seem to be making. If you look at the site itself, the soldiers caption the photos they all ought to look like this and similar things.

As I understand it, Hawkk, our mission there is not to kill Iraqis, but to protect Iraqis from terrorists. Not so?

So the idea that all Iraqis should look like this, that is, dead-- is not quite the message we like to see.

 

[HollyHawkk]

Thanks for the Explaination... forgive me I am a Canadian.And not very political.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

The only good jap, is a jap who has been dead six months -William F. "Bull" Halsey.

That's the way I like to see them- Gen. Douglas McAurthur on stepping over a japanese coorpse on Luzon.

-We're going to kill em, and we're going to keep on killing them. We're going to poke em in the eye and kick em in the ass. We're going to pull out their intestines and use em to grease our tank treads-Paraphrase of Gen. Geroge S. Patton

Impolitic slips of the tounge, perhaps, but indicative of the general attitude soldiers in a brutal campaign come to have reguarding their foe. It's a relatively modern phenomena, to viscerally hate your foe. As recently as WWI, this wasn't the case. When Mafred Von Richtoven was shot down, the British gave him an autopsy, and a full military funeral with honors, including a wreath with the inscription to our gallant foe. Even as recently as WWII, in certain campaigns, with certain professional soldiers, it did not exist. For example, a British officer was shot down and severely wounded in North Africa. Rommel, in visiting the aide station spoke to him. The Gemans then made an in the clear broadcast that he had been wounded, would live, and would like his fwife and child to leave Cairo and return to England. The Brits responded with an in the clear, recieved, thank you.

Total war is partially responsible for this. Where demonizing the enemy at home is de riguer for any propaganda campaign. Also, with the US, the infusion of citizen soldiers weakens the professionalism of our military. To a professional soldier, war is hell, but it is his vocation as well. Hating the enemy is unprofessional and dangerous to both morale and dsicipline. Has anyone noticed you don't generally see these kinds of abuses out of regular formations? Or in highly professional armies like those of the UK?

Halsey hated the Japanese. His comment on returning to Pearl Harbor after the attack was "When we are done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell". He was a sailor's admiral and he voiced the feelings of his men. The pacific Campaign was brutal on a level most of us simply cannot imagine. Hatred of a fanatical and suicidal foe was endemic by the time the war ended.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that such an attitude exists in Iraq, where the soldiers are reserveists and the foe is no less fanatical or suicidal.

 

[cantdog]

No, and it doesn't surprise me. I've seen the propaganda myself, without joining any armies. There are, on the site, gloms of flesh on the tarmac. Name the body part, says the caption. Pretty standard stuff these days. "They're dead Iraqis," says one poster. "You got any problem with that?"

I had to laugh at the Army spokesman saying this might turn the Iraqis against America. (like, otherwise we were so okay.) And it surprised me to see the original article where the Army investigators wanted to bring felony charges down on every man jack who'd posted at nowthatsfuckedup. Felony charges against hundreds of kids for this? Excuse me? It turned out they didn't mean it, in just two days, of course.

The fellow at AMericablog or whatever he calls it objects to the 'triumphant' expressions, but seriously, better triumph than a body bag. If you get them instead of them getting you, what's so unusual about feeling a bit of triumph?

Only natural, under the circumstances, I suppose. The circumstances include, of course, a lack of professionalism, as you note, Colly. The Army was training recruits to hate "Eye-rackies" back twenty-five years ago, and these are young kids, suddenly no longer green. No one is telling them how to act, so they make it up as they go.

 

[CharleyH]

This is the story from Lakeland. There's by way of an international incident. I wonder if I can get some feedback from the AH?

They don't name the website because it's called now thats fucked up dot com or something along those lines. The photos of body parts in the street and Iraqi corpses are on a section of the site anyone can see without registering, so you can see what the fuss is if you go look.

I dunno I am stupid tonight. Thanks for the venue, though.

Well the fuss of dead bodies? Everyone wants to see and doesn't. The problem with Vietnam and why soldiers came home to be spit on, which should not have happened in any case is .... WAR IS WAR as the media dishes it, and if you think the winners don't cause as much atrocity as losers than WOW. The media is both panzie and god send to governments, depending on who they work for. What were we talking about Ya media, you believe what you read and see?

 

[Boxlicker101]

The only good jap, is a jap who has been dead six months -William F. "Bull" Halsey.

That's the way I like to see them- Gen. Douglas McAurthur on stepping over a japanese coorpse on Luzon.

-We're going to kill em, and we're going to keep on killing them. We're going to poke em in the eye and kick em in the ass. We're going to pull out their intestines and use em to grease our tank treads-Paraphrase of Gen. Geroge S. Patton

Impolitic slips of the tounge, perhaps, but indicative of the general attitude soldiers in a brutal campaign come to have reguarding their foe. It's a relatively modern phenomena, to viscerally hate your foe. As recently as WWI, this wasn't the case. When Mafred Von Richtoven was shot down, the British gave him an autopsy, and a full military funeral with honors, including a wreath with the inscription to our gallant foe. Even as recently as WWII, in certain campaigns, with certain professional soldiers, it did not exist. For example, a British officer was shot down and severely wounded in North Africa. Rommel, in visiting the aide station spoke to him. The Gemans then made an in the clear broadcast that he had been wounded, would live, and would like his fwife and child to leave Cairo and return to England. The Brits responded with an in the clear, recieved, thank you.

Total war is partially responsible for this. Where demonizing the enemy at home is de riguer for any propaganda campaign. Also, with the US, the infusion of citizen soldiers weakens the professionalism of our military. To a professional soldier, war is hell, but it is his vocation as well. Hating the enemy is unprofessional and dangerous to both morale and dsicipline. Has anyone noticed you don't generally see these kinds of abuses out of regular formations? Or in highly professional armies like those of the UK?

Halsey hated the Japanese. His comment on returning to Pearl Harbor after the attack was "When we are done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell". He was a sailor's admiral and he voiced the feelings of his men. The pacific Campaign was brutal on a level most of us simply cannot imagine. Hatred of a fanatical and suicidal foe was endemic by the time the war ended.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that such an attitude exists in Iraq, where the soldiers are reserveists and the foe is no less fanatical or suicidal.

During WW2, neither the UK nor the US was occupied, for the most part. The soldiers of those countries could treat the Axis forces as honored enemies. France was occupied as was a large part of the USSR and people from those nations looked on the Axis, expecially the Germans with intense hatred because of what they saw the Germans had done in places that were occupied.

The war in the Pacific was another matter. The Chinese fought fiercely against the Japanese because they saw them quite clearly as evil aggressors. The US soldiers were well aware that the US involvement began with a sneak attack on Pearl Harbor and they heard the news out of Bataan and Corregidor. When American Marines started their island-hopping campaign, they captured islands and saw what had happened to any prisoners the Japanese had taken. Atrocities committed by the japanese are well known and well documented. Probably the best known was the Rape of Nanking but there were many more. My wife lived in Manila during the occupation and she saw and heard first hand what the Japanese were doing and trying to do to the Philippino people. The atrocities were committed by ordinary soldiers, by the way, not by special forces like the German SS.

People fighting the Japanese hated the enemy and they had an extremely good reason.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Actually, from what the Pacific Theatre veterans told me, it wasn't so much that, as just the fact that Island Hopping itself was brutish and maddening. First you had the airwaves doing their thing, getting you riled against the inhuman foe and then you storm the beaches and if you live till beach landing, you are stuck in a trench while snipers took pot shots from a single palm tree fond so that you no longer knew when it was safe and you could almost believe they were demons and then you repeat that over and over and over for each fucking island.

After that, you hate Japs.

I think truthully for the enlisted man, you'll always look bitterly to the men you fought. Any campaign when your friend Billy has taken a shot to the head and you nearly lost your leg and reports are flying in of insane things the enemy is doing to try to win, you don't look favorably. Sure the officers and politicians used to pretend it was all a game and treated their war foe as some cricket opponent whose hand they would shake come what will. For the men dying, the view is always different. How many front liners have ever at a time of war loved their enemy and thought of them as good chaps really. Sure afterwards, or some might understand that their just the same and it's all madness, but...