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Cordelia or Wesley

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MallardGoodbody

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In a recent discussion the topic came up and we tried to decide on which character had the more tragic Buffy/Angel story arc.
Cordelia or Wesley.
what do you guys think and why?

or do you perhaps think it was another character entirely?
 
Wesley Wyndam-Pryce.

the Dread Pirate...I dunno if he was all that tragic, I mean sure, there was the deadness and the rodent bites et al, but he did end up with Frank Underwood's wife.
so that seems pretty balanced to me.
she aged very very well.
 
i'd really love to know how, exactly, this topic of discussion came up.

"one does not simply bring up buffy characters.
it is folly! " - boromir
 
Honestly Pete, in some spheres a Whedonverse discussion is almost inevitable. Kevin Bacon has nada on the connectivity of the Joss.

i'm not sure how it all started as it was a long meal-time conversation, but i think it had something to do with american pie and that led to allyson h, and then that led to her being married to alexis and that led to a discussion about how funny buffy was and how angel was a different kinda funny and how the casts of both were so good and how joss always has hot chix and how Cordelia got hotter as she aged and then how her character also got tougher and then ended tragically and how wesley's character also matured so much and how his whole story took such a dark turn and ended tragically as well. (I mean was it as tragic as Opie from sons of anarchy?, maybe. do we need to discuss that as well? maybe)
so then the discussion led to, well who was more tragic?
cordelia was the failed actress who got impaled and then became a vessel and then died a bunch.
but wesley was deserted by all of his friends for trying to do the right thing and had his throat cut and then there was his dad/bot and the whole fred thing. oh and also some deading as well.

so...who was more tragic?

Cordie? Wesley? Opie?
 
The entire crew of Serenity. Cut off in their fucking prime.
 
Cordy. It's not even a competition.

Cordelia comes from a well to do family, good enough that daddy bought her a sports car at 16. She gets roped into the Supernatural either by happenstance or a God trying to decide the fate of the very planet.

Several of her close friends die throughout High School ultimately "including" Harmony who was especially close. (Though they apparently never bothered to check on anything following the S3 finale now that I think about it.)

Her family loses all it's money via something involving her father and taxes that presumably landed him in jail and god only knows what happened to her mother. (We know they are NEVER mentioned during her stint on Angel. Even when she goes missing for months or enters a coma no mention of so much as a phone call is given. Of the Angel cast only Gunn is sans parents and given we first met him living on the streets with his sister they are presumably some combination of dead and absentee.)

Over on Angel she's granted visions that nearly kill her and is damseled on a nearly weekly basis for a while. Ultimately she is possessed by a Power that Be/Was (Jasmine), gives birth to Jasmine, goes into a coma and gets one last goodbye later. She doesn't even die well. (Granted that is Charisma Carpenter's fault for getting pregnant but still.)

Cordelia's story arc ultimately takes her from spoiled brat to hard working team member. She gets no large lasting victories. At least she presumably went to heaven and maybe even stayed. We don't really know how much Skip was lying about.

Wesley on the other hand starts out as the text book college kid. He knows the books better than Giles but has never been with a vampire in the "wild". He spends S3 of Buffy and S1 of Angel as a mostly useless in combat but intelligent team member.

S2 he gets shot, forges a friendship with Gunn and gradually goes from worthless to being arguably the second most effective fighter on the team. What he lacks by comparison to Gunn in raw strength he makes up for between general intellect, tactical planning and oh yeah unlike gun, Wesley uses guns quite frequently and to good effect. It's so radical they have to come up with something for Gun in S5 (Brain boost of Demon Law) and After the Fall (Vampire) because he was really an extra once Wesley became a bad ass.

Wesley has a crappy relationship with his father but clearly they care about each other given the one episode we saw his "father" (I know it was a bot. The bot was also good enough to completely fool Wesley.) Basically Wesley is a disapointment to an overbearing father and he loves his mum and she him. He grows to be AWESOME.

He loses the love of his life (Fred) and eventually dies. His death was better than Cordis by a long shot nearly taking Vayne with him. If you count After the Fall then Wesley probably loses as he's got the same contract issue as whats her name. Of course he seems less put out by that than one would expect.

At the end of the day Wesley was in charge of his life and shaped his destiny. Cordelia was Fate's Chewtoy and didn't even get much to show for it. By the time she tells Angel she loves him Jasmine makes her move.
 
Sean said:
The entire crew of Serenity. Cut off in their fucking prime.
Click to expand...

Meh assuming Serenity had an average run of 5 seasons several of the actors made out well.

And the Crew is alive and well and won!
 
It really does. But she's a font of awesome things to say to people. I'm pissed we only got part of a season with her.
 
Cordy's fine. She's off being a higher power now. Wesley is stuck as a ghost working for Wolfram and Hart.
 
It's close, mostly cus both turn out mostly okay.

Xander goes from nerd loser in high school to fairly successful adult. He was a team leader in Construction in under a year. It's unlikely he had any difficulty finding work after or if you count the Comics he becomes essentially a general. His major loses are Cordi (his own fault sorta) and Anya dies. Of course if he wanted her alive he wouldn't have sent Andrew to have her back.

Dawn loses her mother. That's really it.

So I guess it goes to Xander who lost substantially more even though he also came further. Dawn is mostly just sort of there. After S5 you could practically erase her from the story and no key points are lost.
 
Xander and Dawn are both completely useless and annoying and contribute nothing.

The way they both fucking turned on Buffy in S7 rendered them both dead to me.
 
Xander is not useless you take that back!

And Buffy was a bit of a dumb twat in S7, at the very least she wasn't doing a stellar job of communicating.
 
Sean Renaud said:
Xander is not useless you take that back!

And Buffy was a bit of a dumb twat in S7, at the very least she wasn't doing a stellar job of communicating.
Click to expand...

I did get tired of her speeches. But boy did I cheer when Spike came back and yelled at them all for being treacherous whorediots.

Xander is slightly less useless than Dawn...I guess he did talk Willow down from ending the world that one time. Maybe I'm just holding a grudge from that time in S2 when he didn't tell Buffy that Willow was about to get Angel's soul back. Not that it would have done any good, it just pissed me off.
 
bg23 said:
I did get tired of her speeches. But boy did I cheer when Spike came back and yelled at them all for being treacherous whorediots.

Xander is slightly less useless than Dawn...I guess he did talk Willow down from ending the world that one time. Maybe I'm just holding a grudge from that time in S2 when he didn't tell Buffy that Willow was about to get Angel's soul back. Not that it would have done any good, it just pissed me off.
Click to expand...

He would have gotten her killed if he'd told her that. She nearly died anyway!

And Spike was wrong. I love Spike but he was wrong.
 
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