Copyright wonders

[Sir_Maveric]

Hey guys and gals. Just talked with a publisher and they told me that no part of a song can be published in my works without approval and permission, for a fee of course, of the title holder. When asked if I could publish for myself, i.e. not for sale, just for my bookshelf, they suggested I contract a lawyer. Looking for opinions, and wondering if I need to change my story. Here on the site, the song is quoted, poorly, but you would recognize it. If I have the stories printed as a book it would just be for my bookshelf and never be fir sale. A few copies given away but that’s it,

Here’s the quote from my story:

“ As we neared the throne room something odd hit our ears. Music; and not just any music - the Rolling Stones!

'You've got to rooooll me and call me the tumbling diiiice,' roared out of the small speakers.

It was nice to hear Mick again. I hadn't realized I was actually missing him.”

 

[NotWise]

Hey guys and gals. Just talked with a publisher and they told me that no part of a song can be published in my works without approval and permission, for a fee of course, of the title holder. When asked if I could publish for myself, i.e. not for sale, just for my bookshelf, they suggested I contract a lawyer. Looking for opinions, and wondering if I need to change my story. Here on the site, the song is quoted, poorly, but you would recognize it. If I have the stories printed as a book it would just be for my bookshelf and never be fir sale. A few copies given away but that’s it,

Here’s the quote from my story:

“ As we neared the throne room something odd hit our ears. Music; and not just any music - the Rolling Stones!

'You've got to rooooll me and call me the tumbling diiiice,' roared out of the small speakers.

It was nice to hear Mick again. I hadn't realized I was actually missing him.”

The subject has come up here before, and I think KeithD is probably the source you want. My recollection is that you can quote something like two lines without worrying.

On the other hand it probably wouldn't be hard to write around the song quotation.

 

[ElectricBlue]

“ As we neared the throne room something odd hit our ears. Music; and not just any music - the Rolling Stones!

'You've got to rooooll me and call me the tumbling diiiice,' roared out of the small speakers.

It was nice to hear Mick again. I hadn't realized I was actually missing him.”

The site allows some but not all of a song lyric - citing a single line is hardly going to get you in trouble with Mick and Keef's copyright lawyer. Self-publishing with no intent to sell, can't see any difference.

You're not denying them royalties, which is the usual reason the legals get involved. Don't worry yourself about it.

 

[Sir_Maveric]

Good to know for the site. Any idea about physical publishing for my bookshelf? This is a USA based publisher that will do minimal volume so it doesn’t have me getting 1000 copies. 25 minimum and all I really want is three or four. More of a novelty for me. Not looking to be selling in the corner drugmarts. Just want to have it on my shelf. I love holding books and would like to give a few copies away to folks who have read my story and enjoyed it.

 

[Sir_Maveric]

I couldn’t see a difference as well but the publisher sent me this:

Thank you for reaching out! It's great to hear that you're interested in using BookBaby for your printing project.

When you are signing off on your project you will fill out a form titled "Intellectual Property Rights". This is an agreement stating that you own the rights or have the permission to use all materials in the project:

INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHTS (IPR)
Please Read:
I understand that if I am not the owner of all the intellectual property rights for the entire content on this book, and any supplied artwork, I am required to purchase licensing from the owner or owners of the intellectual property rights of the content. This includes any text or images used on the book cover or the body of the book. By checking this box I agree that I am the content owner of the content of this book, or if I am not the content owner I have obtained the proper licensing to reproduce this content from the content owner.
[ ] I,_____________, have read and agree to the terms above.
Your Name
By checking this box, I am certifying that I am authorized to sign this agreement. I affirm that my agreement here constitutes an electronic signature and that this signature meets any and all requirements for an original signature and is legally binding in all respects.


If this is not the case or you do not feel that you can sign this form, then you will not be able to print with BookBaby until you gather all the rights for your project. If you have questions or concerns about the legality of what you are attempting to print, you should consult a lawyer.

Have a great day!

 

[TadOverdon]

At Bookbaby:

How to legally quote song lyrics in your book

 

[Sir_Maveric]

Yeah, I read all that but it doesn’t cover my scenario. I just want it for my shelf. I won’t be selling it and there will be no isdn number on the book. Just a couple of copies given to friends.
Thank though. Appreciate you looking it up.

 

[KeithD]

Yeah, I read all that but it doesn’t cover my scenario. I just want it for my shelf. I won’t be selling it and there will be no isdn number on the book. Just a couple of copies given to friends.
Thank though. Appreciate you looking it up.

Just one copy for your shelf and just a couple of copies given to friends are not the same thing. The second statement would put this into copyright infringement if you didn't have permissions. There's no guarantee of "you can," but most publishers do permit two lines of a song/poem without permissions. The risk is nearly nonexistent.

It sounds like you aren't fully handling this yourself even with the "maybe" just one private shelf copy (since you've just hedged it yourself with the "just a few friends")--that there's at least a book packager involved. If there is, they will have acquired full responsibility for what they produce--with or without permissions--alongside you. So, if they say everything has to be covered by permissions no matter what your statement is on where the copy(ies) goes, they are legally covering their ass and have reason not to proceed.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yeah, I read all that but it doesn’t cover my scenario. I just want it for my shelf. I won’t be selling it and there will be no isdn number on the book. Just a couple of copies given to friends.
Thank though. Appreciate you looking it up.

Ask yourself who on earth is going to a) look, b) check, c) do anything about it? The legal blurb is a CYA aimed at people who intend to monetise their work. You don't intend to sell anything, so you could morally say, "It doesn't apply to me." Legally, it's a non-issue in my mind, because what's the risk of a legal pursuit? None, I'd say.

Just misquote the lyric if you're that worried.

"You're gonna rock me and call me the tumbling dice."

There - all my own work. Feel free to use it .

 

[KeithD]

And then don't expect to get any respectful treatment of YOUR work as an author.

We periodically get "they've stolen my work and published it to Amazon" complaints here. Well, OK, then how do YOU treat other people's intellectual property? How many copyright violations of your fellow creators works are floating around this very discussion board in the form of quotes in posts of copyrighted material and images in avatars and images dropped in discussion board posts?

The case in point here is, if it was your song and you had these legal rights, how would you want someone else to handle them in their works?

 

[NotWise]

Yeah, I read all that but it doesn’t cover my scenario. I just want it for my shelf. I won’t be selling it and there will be no isdn number on the book. Just a couple of copies given to friends.
Thank though. Appreciate you looking it up.

What covers your scenario is that your publisher requires you to sign an agreement that everything in your story is your intellectual property. How many copies you want to distribute, or to whom, doesn't look like a factor.

Maybe you love your story as it is, but you might need to write around that reference, or find another way to give copies to friends.

 

[Sir_Maveric]

Naming groups and song titles in stories is allowed, that much I’ve gotten from what the publisher has said on its site. Although I am only doing a few copies and not monetizing this, I see your point. It would be best just to reword the story here and in my printed copy. Saved the headaches all around, even just for one line. And you’re right, it’s their song, not mine. I appreciate that I probably never would be caught and that it is just one line, but I came here for input and you have all helped. I thank you.

I get to reworking it and resubmitting soon, and change the copy going to the publisher. It’s an easy fix.

Thanks guys and gals.

 

[LAHomedog]

As I have mentioned before, my wife is an intellectual property attorney and deals with this kind of stuff all the time. So I asked her again, just now.

Her reply: What is being discussed is "fair use." There is no set standard. It's a balancing test. You have to weigh the nature of the copyrighted work, the amount of the potion used, and the potential impact of the use on the market and value of the work. Legally, they use the following as the standards to judge the use:

1. The purpose and character of your use.
2. The nature of the copyrighted work.
3. The amount and substantiality of the portion taken, and
4. The effect of the use on the potential market.

I'm not going to give you advice on what you should do, but the above information should help you make you choices.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

And a lawyer will tell you, unless you're rich they won't waste the time and money on suing you. Unless of course your book becomes a #1 seller on the New York Time best sellers list and you sold millions of copies.

And then some would feel it was free advertising for their work if you did and it was used in a good way as long as you give them credit.

 

[MadeleineSinha]

Hey guys and gals. Just talked with a publisher and they told me that no part of a song can be published in my works without approval and permission, for a fee of course, of the title holder. When asked if I could publish for myself, i.e. not for sale, just for my bookshelf, they suggested I contract a lawyer. Looking for opinions, and wondering if I need to change my story. Here on the site, the song is quoted, poorly, but you would recognize it. If I have the stories printed as a book it would just be for my bookshelf and never be fir sale. A few copies given away but that’s it,

Here’s the quote from my story:

“ As we neared the throne room something odd hit our ears. Music; and not just any music - the Rolling Stones!

'You've got to rooooll me and call me the tumbling diiiice,' roared out of the small speakers.

It was nice to hear Mick again. I hadn't realized I was actually missing him.”

I referred to the music my main character was listening to as she cleaned up her house in my as yet unpublished work of genius.
I wrote Zayn, Harry and the boys were telling me I light up their world like nobody else as I was contemplating starting the ironing when Chantal’s phone rang.
Which (1) demonstrates my character's awful taste in music and (2) is far enough from the actual lyric that it is not copyright to One Direction

 

[Handley_Page]

Hey guys and gals. Just talked with a publisher and they told me that no part of a song can be published in my works without approval and permission, for a fee of course, of the title holder. When asked if I could publish for myself, i.e. not for sale, just for my bookshelf, they suggested I contract a lawyer. Looking for opinions, and wondering if I need to change my story. Here on the site, the song is quoted, poorly, but you would recognize it. If I have the stories printed as a book it would just be for my bookshelf and never be fir sale. A few copies given away but that’s it,

Here’s the quote from my story:

“ As we neared the throne room something odd hit our ears. Music; and not just any music - the Rolling Stones!

'You've got to rooooll me and call me the tumbling diiiice,' roared out of the small speakers.

It was nice to hear Mick again. I hadn't realized I was actually missing him.”

As you as you give FULL attribution to the source, you are in the clear.
It is important that what you quote is detailed as NOT BEING YOUR WORK.

 

[Sir_Maveric]

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate it all. The easiest route would be to edit it so that I mention the chorus of the song was blasting through the speakers instead of writing out the lyrics. Saves any trouble at all and still gets the thought across. Rather than fight to use a single line in a story that I may or may not be allowed to do, I save time and energy by fixing a story already published here, and can concentrate on other projects.