Copyright question related to fanfic

[Huckleman2000]

So, I'm thinking of writing a series of short scenes along the lines of Tom Stoppard's plays like "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead". In that play, the two title characters are lifted from Shakespeare's play "Hamlet", where they are small roles. Stoppard imagines what happens when these characters are "offstage" in Shakespeare's play. They are the same characters as in "Hamlet", but the plot is imagined in such a way that the action in "Hamlet" is a small part of their own story.

Other modern plays also have scenes that are talked about within the play, but never actually portrayed. However, those plays aren't in the public domain, like Shakespeare's are.

What sort of thin ice might I be skating on with this idea?

 

[Lady_Artemis]

To use any lines from a published work that is still copyrighted (and not in the public domain), you need to have permission from the publisher if you anticipate any revenue coming from your work. Let's consider for a moment that revenue is not an issue. Depending on the copyright of the published work, you might be able to simply cite the source if you use a very small amount of words. This would be stated in the copyright rules within the work. You'll notice something to the effect of, "No part of this work may be disseminated without written consent from the publisher/author." That means don't use anything, even in citation. (There are exceptions, such as media and educational usage.)

Works in the public domain, by contrast, can be used as long as the work is not passed off as one's own. This makes sense; you wouldn't want someone passing your work off as theirs, even if you're dead and your descendents are the ones fighting for your good name.

Also, keep in mind that under US copyright law, once you put it in writing it is technically covered under intellectual property copyright as your work. So stealing an idea or a series of words from another, even if the work is not published, is against copyright law. Most people don't know this; it is different from copyright laws in many other countries. The point here is, though, that even if you're just putting it on a writing website, the original author can sue you if you haven't obtained the necessary permissions.

All that said, it's a cool idea and I wish you luck!

 

[Stella_Omega]

What you are intending is properly called "Derivative work" and I'm guessing it wont be plagiarism.

 

[Lady_Artemis]

What you are intending is properly called "Derivative work" and I'm guessing it wont be plagiarism.

It is indeed a derivative work. Most of the copyright laws that apply to derivative works are there to guide the author of the derivative work in obtaining copyright...which is difficult to do (can be legally challenged) when the original work is still under copyright and the secondary author has borrowed text explicitly against the copyright stated in the original work. If the original work is in the public domain, you're fine. If it is still under copyright, using word-for-word text from the original and copyrighting it as your own can be challenged (successfully) in court by the original author, even if the derivative work is recognized as such.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It is indeed a derivative work. Most of the copyright laws that apply to derivative works are there to guide the author of the derivative work in obtaining copyright...which is difficult to do (can be legally challenged) when the original work is still under copyright and the secondary author has borrowed text explicitly against the copyright stated in the original work. If the original work is in the public domain, you're fine. If it is still under copyright, using word-for-word text from the original and copyrighting it as your own can be challenged (successfully) in court by the original author, even if the derivative work is recognized as such.

He's not planning to use word-for-word text, I am pretty sure. He's planning to detail some offstage scenes that were alluded to in the original text, but never seen. Could be fun!

A favorite game of fanficcers is to re-write an episode of their TV series, or even an entire season, so that it goes a different way. They try to use as much canon action and dialogue as possible, but change the premise-- make one of the supporting characters the main focus, or add a love affair (usually between two of the men )

This is also legit, in a grey-area sort of way: it's called "transformative work." Most transformative work that gets recognised is satirical or critical. Fanficcers have pointed out that the motive of criticism isn't the only reason for transformation-- that concept is slowly making its way through the system...

 

[Huckleman2000]

So, anything word-for-word is out. Got it.

It sounds like specific actions alluded to would be okay then? For example, if a character in the copyrighted work told about a dinner date where her date got into an argument with a waiter and got kicked out of the restaurant: I could write the restaurant scene with the argument, just not have anyone quote word-for-word from the original?

It's an interesting idea, I think. I'd have to be sort of clever about it - my concern would be getting too clever, getting mired in details that only play-geeks might appreciate. (That's how the idea came about - geeking out with theater friends. )

 

[Lady_Artemis]

So, anything word-for-word is out. Got it.

It sounds like specific actions alluded to would be okay then? For example, if a character in the copyrighted work told about a dinner date where her date got into an argument with a waiter and got kicked out of the restaurant: I could write the restaurant scene with the argument, just not have anyone quote word-for-word from the original?

It's an interesting idea, I think. I'd have to be sort of clever about it - my concern would be getting too clever, getting mired in details that only play-geeks might appreciate. (That's how the idea came about - geeking out with theater friends. )

It depends. If the author has a iron-clad copyright and can argue that your work is close enough to his/hers, then legally it could be copyright infringement whether you quote word-for-word or not. However, if you are using satire, than in theory your work would not be close to the author's actual work. In other words, you can't write the same story with different character names and different places; that's too close and infringing upon the author's original idea. But you can extend the author's idea (with satire, etc) as fanfic folks often do.

Fanfic isn't the best example, simply because everyone knows it's fanfic. And fanfic writers (at least half-way decent ones) don't just take part of a work and rewrite it in different words. Take something like the Star Wars: The Clone Wars novel. It wasn't written by George Lucas, as the Star Wars films were. But many of the characters are the same. But it extends the work. Then there are the novelizations of the movies, written by other authors who gained copyright permission (actually, they were chosen by Lucas) to write the same stories as the movies/scripts, but they don't have the exact words. The purpose was to put the story into a different form -- book vs. movie. Notice, they needed permission.

Of course, you can always take your chances. Guess I've researched enough of these legal copyright battles and fought a few too many to decide where to draw my own line in the sand.

 

[sr71plt]

Other modern plays also have scenes that are talked about within the play, but never actually portrayed. However, those plays aren't in the public domain, like Shakespeare's are.

What sort of thin ice might I be skating on with this idea?

None.

This isn't even a copyright issue--"have scenes that are talked about." Copyright covers use of actual passages (and, by custom rather than firm law, about use of passages over 50 words).

If the playwright trademarked characters from her/his play (which is neither likely nor easy to do), you couldn't use the same characters in your work--but the chances that is happening in this example are nil plus almost none.

What you are talking about isn't really fanfic, either.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Of course, you can always take your chances. Guess I've researched enough of these legal copyright battles and fought a few too many to decide where to draw my own line in the sand.

Now, that's interesting! I'd love to talk to you about it.


Also folks, never forget-- copyright gives a creator the right to sue. It does not provide the creator the money to pay a law team with, or the time necessary to pursue the paperwork, and, frankly, not so many published authors are in J.K.Rowling's level of financial stability.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

On a related note, how does this apply to pop culture references in a non-fanfic story?

For example, if I have a character in a 'real' world setting that's a big fan of a cult TV series/book/film. Can TM'ed/copyrighted names be used so long as it's clear they're being referred to as existing TV series/books/films in the backdrop of the setting? What are the boundaries here?

 

[Stella_Omega]

On a related note, how does this apply to pop culture references in a non-fanfic story?

For example, if I have a character in a 'real' world setting that's a big fan of a cult TV series/book/film. Can TM'ed/copyrighted names be used so long as it's clear they're being referred to as existing TV series/books/films in the backdrop of the setting? What are the boundaries here?

She was a tall girl who wanted nothing more than to be part of a "Rocky Horror Show" cast.

***

"Which Star Trek do you like, old or new?" Doug asked his new friend.

***

"You're such an interesting monster. And an interesting monster should have an interesting hairstyle."

"I'm not a monster, and you're not Bugs Bunny."

***

He was eleven years old, and wanted to go to Hogwarts.

***

yes, of course you can do that.

 

[sr71plt]

Names can't be copyrighted. If they are trademarked there has to be overwhelming evidence the use does monetary harm to the product for a suit to win (and, if won, the damages are based on the monetary harm demonstrated as having been done). So, we're talking minisule issue concerning writing done here.