Confused

[Wifetheif]

I had a story rejected today. It is called "The Taking of Helene" and is a pastiche?fan fiction involving the violation of Ki-Gor's mate Helene. Ki-Gor was a 1940's to 1950's pulp figure. An ersatz Tarzan that is a free-floating character. My story was rejected for the following reason:

"We do not publish non-consent stories involving real-life people or copyrighted characters."

This comes as news to me as I have published nonconsent stories featuring Wonder Woman and Supergirl two figures far more famous and still under copyright than Ki-Gor. I don't want to rewrite the story to make it a generic ape-man and I have a hard time believing this story would be just fine if I used Tarzan and Jane! ShouldI

HELP! should I just re-submit hoping it flys through this time? Ki-Gor is as much under copyright as Conan or any other pulp figure from that era. He has entered the public domain. My rejection makes NO SENSE. WHAT SHOULD I DO?

 

[CyranoJ]

"We do not publish non-consent stories involving real-life people or copyrighted characters."

Maybe include in the notes field that Ki-Gor is public domain? It's possible Laurel just didn't realise that.

Alternatively just change the names a bit.

 

[Wifetheif]

Maybe include in the notes field that Ki-Gor is public domain? It's possible Laurel just didn't realise that.

Alternatively just change the names a bit.

http://singular--points.********.com/2007/11/other-jungle-lord.html proof thhe Ki-Gor is a public domain character Money quote

"Copyrights were never renewed on the Ki-Gor adventures and the character himself was never trademarked, so anyone can write new Ki-Gor adventures, unlike Tarzan who is still a trademarked character of Edgar Rice Burroughs Inc. "

 

[sr71plt]

http://singular--points.********.com/2007/11/other-jungle-lord.html proof thhe Ki-Gor is a public domain character Money quote

"Copyrights were never renewed on the Ki-Gor adventures and the character himself was never trademarked, so anyone can write new Ki-Gor adventures, unlike Tarzan who is still a trademarked character of Edgar Rice Burroughs Inc. "

Yes, well, as CyranoJ noted, it's Laurel you need to tell that, not the forum. Just resubmit with that in the Notes field.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Out of curiosity, I dug a little deeper into the Ki-Gor series. John Peter Drummond was a pen name utilized by pulp writers working for Savage Tales. The last Ki-Gor story appeared, as near as I can tell, in 1949, which, if John Peter Drummond was a real person, would still be covered by US copyright until 2019 (life plus 70).

However, the most prolific of the Ki-Gor authors, who wrote the novels, with William Scott Peacock (who wrote under about a dozen names as far as I can tell). He lived until 1979, so his works are well inside copyright.

Then, it is further complicated by this - since I don't have a Ki-Gor book, if you have access to one, check the copyright page to see who holds the copyright. If it's copyright by John Peter Drummond, Savage Tales or their parent company (Indicia or Colophon), then it's also still covered by copyright as Colophon is still active.

I also see though that some of the Ki-Gor novels are in the public domain (the first eight) and I would guess they fall under abandonment by the publisher. (When Savage Tales folded it was sold at auction and Indicia/Colophon bought the imprint and then later revitalized it in the 70's).

In short, it's tangled enough that I'd avoid it. At the cursory level that I looked the answer to is it copyrighted is "maybe", which makes it perfect fodder for copyright troll lawyers.

 

[jezzaz]

Its worth pointing out that Laurel doesn't do a big copyright search on every story submitted. She deals with *hundreds* of stories a day - she reads the header, about one or two pages, and then makes her decision based on that.

The fact that you got away with Wonder Woman in the past is just that - you got away with it. If you use that as an argument as to why this story should be allowed, you'll just see the other one yanked too.

The bottom line is probably that on first blush, Laurel sees it's character created by someone else, and so she's instantly just saying "Hey, you didn't create this, and I don't see either evidence that the author has given you permission or that it's a public domain character. I'm bumping it."

The onus is now on you to push that back and say "Hey, hang on, this character *is* public domain, here's the website", and you should be fine.


Her initial response isn't the right decision in the strictest sense of your and their culpability in terms of the use of this character, but it's certainly an understandable one from a busy woman who is curating hundreds of stories a day.

At least you have an avenue to pursue. I have a story that will never be published here because I use the same initial premise as another author, but the author wont respond in terms of allowing my story or not, ergo it gets bumped every time. Them's the breaks.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm the first one to point out that the non consent and under age rules here are a wink wink joke and what they claim they don't want is rampant here.

However, it seems when it comes to fictional characters-DC especially-Laurel really tightens up when it comes to non con and any type of 'aging up' of underage fictional characters.

Like Jezzaz said, I doubt Laurel did home work on this character, but what she saw was non consent fan fic and that almost always gets the boot.

You can try to explain the public domain, but I don't think its an issue as much as the content is.

I agree with the other poster who pointed out it was a huge oversight on Lit's part to have a non con Wonder Woman story put through( I saw its mind control, but come on people, that's non con light and we all know it.)

But something tells me now that its been mentioned that will be rectified soon.

 

[Wifetheif]

Out of curiosity, I dug a little deeper into the Ki-Gor series. John Peter Drummond was a pen name utilized by pulp writers working for Savage Tales. The last Ki-Gor story appeared, as near as I can tell, in 1949, which, if John Peter Drummond was a real person, would still be covered by US copyright until 2019 (life plus 70).

However, the most prolific of the Ki-Gor authors, who wrote the novels, with William Scott Peacock (who wrote under about a dozen names as far as I can tell). He lived until 1979, so his works are well inside copyright.

Then, it is further complicated by this - since I don't have a Ki-Gor book, if you have access to one, check the copyright page to see who holds the copyright. If it's copyright by John Peter Drummond, Savage Tales or their parent company (Indicia or Colophon), then it's also still covered by copyright as Colophon is still active.

I also see though that some of the Ki-Gor novels are in the public domain (the first eight) and I would guess they fall under abandonment by the publisher. (When Savage Tales folded it was sold at auction and Indicia/Colophon bought the imprint and then later revitalized it in the 70's).

In short, it's tangled enough that I'd avoid it. At the cursory level that I looked the answer to is it copyrighted is "maybe", which makes it perfect fodder for copyright troll lawyers.

John Peter Drummond was a house name used by Jungle Tales for the Ki-Gor stories. Ki-Gor stories were written by several writers over the years. Further, other others have offered modern Ki-Gor tales. (I've bought several from Amazon) with no legal repercussions whatsoever. While some of the stories my have been copyrighted the Character NEVER WAS. The publishers could NOT have done so or they would have been sued into oblivion by Edgar Rice Burroughs Incorporated. Sheena, Jungle Queen is a similarly public domain jungle figure for the same reason. Two of my highest rated stories are an update of Sheena. Further, FOUR different websites that list public domain pulp figures mention Ki-Gor as one of those. I think I am firmly in safe legal waters.

 

[ElectricBlue]

i think I am firmly in safe legal waters.

So go argue your case with Laurel. There's nothing gained by telling us all here, we're not the ones you need to convince.

Resubmit your story, with your argument in the Notes to the Editor box. That's the best avenue for resolution.

 

[Paul_Chance]

John Peter Drummond was a house name used by Jungle Tales for the Ki-Gor stories. Ki-Gor stories were written by several writers over the years. Further, other others have offered modern Ki-Gor tales. (I've bought several from Amazon) with no legal repercussions whatsoever. While some of the stories my have been copyrighted the Character NEVER WAS. The publishers could NOT have done so or they would have been sued into oblivion by Edgar Rice Burroughs Incorporated. Sheena, Jungle Queen is a similarly public domain jungle figure for the same reason. Two of my highest rated stories are an update of Sheena. Further, FOUR different websites that list public domain pulp figures mention Ki-Gor as one of those. I think I am firmly in safe legal waters.

Have at it.

It's not me you have to convince - it's the publisher (who would in this case be Laurel and Literotica). Good luck, sincerely. It's tangled enough I wouldn't touch it myself.

 

[uksnowy]

Just goes to show that our all seeing, all enveloping, all knowing one woman show doesn't know everything.