Confirmed! Modern Humans & Neanderthals Did It!

[3113]

And now, for your daily dose of erotic science. Pay attention class! For years the burning question has been: Did Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals fuck? Actually, knowing Homo Sapiens, that wasn't really the question. The question was actually...could they have kids? Arguments ranged from "absolutely not!" to "Sure! Some of us are part Neanderthal."

Well, guess what? They finally confirmed it. The two homos (sic) did fuck and they did have kids. AND it's not "some of us" who are part Neanderthal...it's the majority of us. The whole friggin' planet but for one small portion...

If your heritage is non-African, you are part Neanderthal, according to a new study in the July issue of Molecular Biology and Evolution. Discovery News has been reporting on human/Neanderthal interbreeding for some time now, so this latest research confirms earlier findings. Damian Labuda of the University of Montreal...determined some of the human X chromosome originates from Neanderthals, but only in people of non-African heritage.

"This confirms recent findings suggesting that the two populations interbred," Labuda was quoted as saying in a press release. His team believes most, if not all, of the interbreeding took place in the Middle East, while modern humans were migrating out of Africa and spreading to other regions.

The ancestors of Neanderthals left Africa about 400,000 to 800,000 years ago. They evolved over the millennia mostly in what are now France, Spain, Germany and Russia. They went extinct, or were simply absorbed into the modern human population, about 30,000 years ago. Neanderthals possessed the gene for language and had sophisticated music, art and tool craftsmanship skills, so they must have not been all that unattractive to modern humans at the time.

"In addition, because our methods were totally independent of Neanderthal material, we can also conclude that previous results were not influenced by contaminating artifacts," Labuda said...The scientists found that the [Neanderthal DNA]sequence was present in people across all continents, except for sub-Saharan Africa, and including Australia.

"There is little doubt that this haplotype is present because of mating with our ancestors and Neanderthals," said Nick Patterson of the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard University. Patterson did not participate in the latest research. He added, "This is a very nice result, and further analysis may help determine more details."

Bold mine. Full story here.

So, next time you' feel like calling someone a Neanderthal...well, you're right but they can probably call you one right back.

Say hello to daddy!

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRecwjbUddz9hdnN9XqQKTgFEh1cLzHGZGcEqeV_IQFOB0uyvrM

 

[CorruptedInnocence]

Neat lol, I still remember that weird news story of a supposed pure bred neatherthal up in some remote town. cant remember much of the details anymore but, Still pretty neat to know something new and interesting about the past c:

 

[oggbashan]

Gibraltar was the last outpost

Gibraltar Man was discovered before Neanderthal Man but ignored at the time.

It seems that Gibraltar was the last place where Neanderthals lived.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

So... The white supremacists have got it backwards? White people are cross breeds and black people are pure humans? Interesting...

 

[ishtat]

So... The white supremacists have got it backwards? White people are cross breeds and black people are pure humans? Interesting...

Not as simple as that Thee: Sub Saharan Africa will include the bushmen as well as negro peoples. And Neanderthals were as human as any of us. Purity doesn't come into it.

Unfortunately the assumed facial features of Neandethals has been grossly exaggerated in most representations. I have seen middle eastern Neanderthal skulls which are very similar to modern humans.

 

[mynameisben]

So... The white supremacists have got it backwards? White people are cross breeds and black people are pure humans? Interesting...

We are what we are. "Backwards" is as supremacist a concept as "forward." The whole idea of "pure humans" is ludicrous.

"I'm quite happy to say
That the Sneetches got really quite smart on that day,
The day they decided that Sneetches are Sneetches
And no kind of Sneetch is the best on the beaches.
That day, all the Sneetches forgot about stars
And whether they had one, or not, upon thars."

- Theodore Geisel​

 

[Handley_Page]

I thought we were all descended from ' Lucy '.

 

[3113]

Not as simple as that Thee

Well, that's his point. To White Supremacists it's always been simple. And he's right. This does say that such simplistic idiots have it backwards if they're looking for racial "purity" because the "white" race is just like every other race on the planet--a homo sapiens/Neanderthal mix; only certain blacks in Africa can claim to be not "mixed-breed" (i.e. "pure").

A white supremacist anthropologist is going to have a hard time maintaining his position.

 

[Pure]

this certainly explains the continuing presence of neanderthal thinking
in US and Europe.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Well, that's his point. To White Supremacists it's always been simple. And he's right. This does say that such simplistic idiots have it backwards if they're looking for racial "purity" because the "white" race is just like every other race on the planet--a homo sapiens/Neanderthal mix; only certain blacks in Africa can claim to be not "mixed-breed" (i.e. "pure").

A white supremacist anthropologist is going to have a hard time maintaining his position.

Oh, I am so glad you said that. I was taking my time replying because I couldn't come up with such an eloquent response. Thank you for that.

 

[R. Richard]

Well, that's his point. To White Supremacists it's always been simple. And he's right. This does say that such simplistic idiots have it backwards if they're looking for racial "purity" because the "white" race is just like every other race on the planet--a homo sapiens/Neanderthal mix; only certain blacks in Africa can claim to be not "mixed-breed" (i.e. "pure").

A white supremacist anthropologist is going to have a hard time maintaining his position.

I'm not a 'white' or any other kind off racial supremacist. However, you're wrong. In the South of Africa there was a race of people, called bushmen. The bushmen were thought to have been originally from the area of Capetown. Capetown is in a Mediterranean climate zone. Then, it is postulated that the bushmen were forced into the Kalahari desert by an influx of Negroes. The bushmen were not Negroes. They had skin perhaps the color of an apricot. They did have certain features that were the same as the African Negroes, such as peppercorn hair and the same type of nose structure. However, the bushmen women exhibit extreme examples of steatopygia and of course, the sinus pudoris.
Alas, the bushmen and the Negroes have interbred, to large extent and there may not be any substantial population of pure bushmen left. Also, many of the Negroes of subsaharan africa carry bushmen genes (if not Neanderthal genes.)
You would also need to check on the Australoid people.

 

[3113]

Oh, I am so glad you said that. I was taking my time replying because I couldn't come up with such an eloquent response. Thank you for that.

No thanks needed, citizen. Just doin' my job....

 

[3113]

I'm not a 'white' or any other kind off racial supremacist. However, you're wrong.

No, I'm right; I just didn't word what I say carefully enough for nitpickers such as yourself. My argument was that if a white supremacist is saying that his white race is somehow different from all the other races on the planet (purer), then he's wrong. Because his race is just like all the other races. A Sapiens-Neanderthal mix. Only this area of Africa doesn't have that mix, and therefore only that area can claim to be different. So if someone *was* trying to argue their "purity" (Genetic heritage difference from all the other humans on the planet) then only this group in Africa (non-white) could come close as they're the only ones NOT of the same Sapiens-Neanderthal mix.

The supremacist is the one you can argue with about what he means by "purity." I think the concept ridiculous and wouldn't argue it. All I'm saying is that this revelation undermines the supremacist's view and I'm not wrong in that.

 

[3113]

So here's the question...does this mean that Neanderthals can no longer be labeled as "extinct"? If us is them I mean.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

So here's the question...does this mean that Neanderthals can no longer be labeled as "extinct"? If us is them I mean.

I don't know about you, but I celebrate my neanderthal roots, and am far from exti... *dies* (yes, we are now extinct)

 

[stephen55]

Paleontology is interesting. Paleontologists can be even more interesting. Theories derived from a paucity of physical evidence (the occasional bit of bone, a knapped piece of stone, charcoal, some remnants of pottery etc.) can take on near religious overtones as various experts in the field debate just what it all means.

Did modern humans interbreed with Neanderthals? (Let's leave out for now the question of whether it was consensual.) Did modern humans spread out and take over from Neanderthals?

A moment reflecting on human nature says that the answer is yes to both questions. Finding that part of the modern human X chromosome (in those of non-African origin) comes from the Neanderthal genome is hardly surprising. Having read of earlier theories that there was no interbreeding between modern humans and Neanderthals, I recall thinking, "You're kidding me...right?"

As for the tendency of humans to wander all over, claiming the land as their own (no matter who or what was there before them), I recall that it has happened every now and then.

DNA confirmation that modern humans and Neanderthals did interbreed is all very tidy. It puts the theory of modern human "purity" to rest, not that this is ever going to slow down the purists.

So what?

The ancestors of Neanderthals arose in Africa and wandered out about 400,000 to 800,000 years ago. The ancestors of modern humans (an oxymoron perhaps?) arose in Africa and wandered out about 50,000 years ago. When the two groups first ran into each other in what is now the Middle east, how much different would they have been? Coming from a common, deeper ancestor, they would be like brothers and sisters on the mammalian species lineage, sharing almost all of their genes.

Those genes obviously contained the info that led both of them to wander and also to submit to the "urge to merge", at least on the part of one of the meeting pair.

My guess is that if the interbreeding wasn't consensual, all you have to do to account for the interbreeding is to look at the tendency of modern humans to "rape and pillage". Perhaps there is a genetic reason for that as well.

What an untidy lot we are!!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Not just Neanderthals but I'll bet they had sex with bears, horses, trout, turtles, and hollow logs -- anything with a semblance of a hole in it.

Men haven't changed.

 

[TE999]

I thought we were all descended from ' Lucy '.

Better her than Ethel.

 

[3113]

Not just Neanderthals but I'll bet they had sex with bears, horses, trout, turtles, and hollow logs -- anything with a semblance of a hole in it.

Men haven't changed.

Exactly my point. I don't think anyone ever doubted that Sapiens and Neanderthals had sex, consensual or other wise, because homo sapiens will fuck just about anything. What they doubted was whether the two could reproduce. Apparently they could, and far more commonly than supposed.

 

[xssve]

Well I'm glad that's settled, I literally debated this topic for years on the NYT evolution boards, my thinking, like the Doctors, is that if it can be done, somebody, somewhere, will eventually try it.

My guess is that if the interbreeding wasn't consensual, all you have to do to account for the interbreeding is to look at the tendency of modern humans to "rape and pillage". Perhaps there is a genetic reason for that as well.

I always favored the Romeo and Juliet hypothesis over the mass orgy hypothesis, or even the rape hypothesis - but then that's a fine line when we're talking about paleolithic sex - but you gotta figure the Neander's had to be pretty hung, I suspect that could have been a factor.

Maybe that's the origin of the Sheela na Gigs.

But overall, physical size in general would have been a huge attractor, and extra thermal mass does aid in surviving the cold.

Anecdotal evidence includes a certain cult of guys that go for large women, and there is evidence of some kind of paleolithic nose cult - it's not an uncommon feature in art from the Egyptians to the Incas, and it's nearly always associated with a near godlike ruling aristocracy.

 

[JimmyHartley]

Well there can't have been one reaction across the board.
Different tribes of early humans would have had different reactions to these new beings and yes, some of that would be friendship.

 

[3113]

Latest on the Neanderthals is that they died out because they were overwhelmed by the Homo Sapiens. However the sex went, but didn't reproduce as fast or as much and the immigrants not only absorbed them but made them--I assume this means pure Neanderthal tribes--vanish. Which was pretty much what everyone supposed. Maybe they fought, maybe they didn't, but limited resources are limited resources. The population that can get them and hold onto them wins.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

3, I have been following this thread with...interest, as it sparked an idea for a work of fiction...thank you.

 

[oggbashan]

Gibraltar was the last European hold out for the Neanderthals, as it is for the Barbary Apes, or are the Apes descendants of Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens couplings?

If the two human species could mate and produce viable offspring, why no descendants of human and ape sex?

Or do they inhabit the wilder parts of the General Board/

 

[R. Richard]

If the two human species could mate and produce viable offspring, why no descendants of human and ape sex?

The interbreeding of human and ape is developed fictionally by Edgar Rice Burroughs in the city of Opar, within his Tarzan series.