Con artist voting commission: no evidence of widespread fraud

[someoneyouknow]

"I have reviewed the Commission documents made available to me and they do not contain evidence of widespread voter fraud," Maine's Democratic secretary of state, Matthew Dunlap, wrote in a letter to Vice President Mike Pence and Kansas' Republican secretary of state, Kris Kobach.

Dunlap was named to the panel after the 2016 election wherein the con artist lied about millions of illegal votes being cast for Hillary Clinton which is why he didn't win the popular vote. However, soon after joining the commission, Dunalp became concerned that "its purpose was not to pursue the truth but rather to provide an official imprimatur of legitimacy on President Trump's assertions that millions of illegal votes were cast during the 2016 election and to pave the way for policy changes designed to undermine the right to vote."

Dunlap had to go so far as suing the commission because it was withholding information from him even though he was a member. A U.S. District Court agreed with Dunlap and ordered the commission to turn over all documents every other member receives.

Immediately after the court ruling, the con artist dissolved the commission.

However, Kansas' Republican Secretary of State, Kris Kobach, a well known proponent of limiting voting rights, disagreed with Dunlap's letter.

The commission was presented with more than 1,000 convictions for voter fraud since 2000, and convictions represent a tiny percentage of the total number of incidents, the statement said. In addition, the commission was also presented with about 8,400 instances of double voting in the 2016 election looking at 20 states. If the commission had looked at all 50 states, "the number would have been exponentially higher," Kobach said.

"For some people, no matter how many cases of voter fraud you show them, there will never be enough for them to admit that there's a problem," his statement said.

Dunlap wrote in his letter, however, that he did not "expect the public simply to accept my conclusions," and noted, "there is no single document that reveals there is no widespread voter fraud." But, he said, "I rely on the lack of any evidence in the totality of what I reviewed."​

A quick doodle of math shows if there 1,000 convictions for voter fraud in 16 years of voting, that equates to 62 convictions per year. 62 out of hundreds of millions of votes cast.

However, let's extrapolate the supposed 8,400 instances of double voting in 20 states. Assume 17,000 double votes across the nation for the 2016 election. There were 135,500,034 votes cast for a presidential candidate. That means there was a "fraud" rate of 0.000012546 for the presidential election, assuming all the double votes were cast only for a presidential candidate.

The Republicans are right. As evidenced by their own data, there was massive amounts of voter fraud during the 2016 election. So much in fact that at least two Republicans were found guilty of voter fraud.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/03/politics/trump-voter-fraud-commission-evidence-documents/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/09/politics/voting-commission-lawsuit-kobach-dunlap/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/24/politics/matthew-dunlap-voter-fraud-commission

P.S. Apologies for posting in the wrong forum. It was not my intent. Laurel or another admin, if you would please relocate this thread to Politics I would appreciate it.

 

[about_average]

Everyone with at least half a brain knew there's not widespread voter fraud, much less the 5,000,000 claimed by Trump.

I thought the most relevant news was that a democratic member of the commission with the same responsibilities actually had to institute a lawsuit to get access to the same information the Republican members had.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Everyone with at least half a brain knew there's not widespread voter fraud, much less the 5,000,000 claimed by Trump.

I thought the most relevant news was that a democratic member of the commission with the same responsibilities actually had to institute a lawsuit to get access to the same information the Republican members had.

Here's the best part. When recounts were being done in three states, the con artist and his supporters filed lawsuits to stop the recounts because they claimed, wait for it. . . .

there was no indication of voter fraud. Their specific words about my state's election results:

“Despite being no more than a blip on the electoral radar, Stein has now commandeered Pennsylvania’s electoral process, with an eye toward doing the same to the Electoral College,” the complaint says. “There is no evidence—or even an allegation—that any tampering with Pennsylvania’s voting systems actually occurred.”​

http://fortune.com/2016/12/02/donald-trump-recount-wisconsin-pennsylvania-michigan-jill-stein/

 

[SpeareChucker]

I note the qualifying term "widespread."
That is not at all the same as "no evidence."

Correct?

 

[someoneyouknow]

I note the qualifying term "widespread."
That is not at all the same as "no evidence."

Correct?

The claim is there is massive, widespread voter fraud going on, and that in the 2016 election millions of illegal votes were cast for Hillary.

As the evidence shows, neither is true. Is there vote fraud? Sure. Some people will always try to game the system.

But when millions of votes have been cast and there is an insignificant amount of illegal votes, it is prima facie evidence illegal voting is not rampant.

What should be looked into are electronic voting machines which have no verifiable paper trail and which have no way of being audited. Just because the screen says you voted for X does not mean that's how the vote was recorded.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Don't care. Don't think that it is the real underlying issue here.

The same people who are hyperventilating about Trump and Russian interference are all too often the same ones dismissing domestic attempts at election meddling.

It's the rank hypocrisy of it all. Either you want secure elections, or you don't, and Trump should not be the focus of your calculus.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Oh look. The little housesquaw is attempting to conflate Republican vote suppression tactics and Russian election tampering. All or nothing1 ALL OR NOTHING!

#DerpDerpDerp

 

[SpeareChucker]

Ah, the racism and hypocrisy of the Left, all in one thread.


Life is good.

 

[about_average]

Don't care. Don't think that it is the real underlying issue here.

The same people who are hyperventilating about Trump and Russian interference are all too often the same ones dismissing domestic attempts at election meddling.

It's the rank hypocrisy of it all. Either you want secure elections, or you don't, and Trump should not be the focus of your calculus.

As usual, you're wrong again.

Who dismisses domestic election meddling other than the right (except for the mythical "widespread voter fraud")?

If you do a bit of research it's overwhelmingly the right who dismiss any concerns about the fact that with the majority of voting machines there's no way to know your vote actually went to the person intended. An exponentially greater risk to democracy.
A person committing voter fraud can cast one or two illegal votes. Malware in voting machines could cast hundreds of thousands of illegal votes.
Generally, from what I've seen, Democrats are just as Laissez-faire about voting machine security, but at least they aren't tilting at a mythical beast and preventing people from legally voting.

Republicans rail about "voter fraud", an occurrence that is a fraction of a percent and yet support efforts that result in thousands, of people who can legally vote being removed from the voter rolls or prevented from voting because of reduction of the number of polling places and voting times.

Then there's the fact that the majority of people who actually do commit voter fraud are voting Republican.

Even some Trump's own family members committed "voter fraud", according to republicans.

As I've said numerous times, I have no problem with ID being required to vote, just that the greater risk should be addressed first and then systems in place making sure that an ID requirement isn't an impediment to voting. And of course we'd have to accept that mail in ballots would be a thing of the past.

 

[BB10]

so they MET TWICE

just TWICE

and the commission was met with LAWSUITS from DAY 1 and most evidence they requested was not given

and they found "nothing"

meanwhile YOU ALL scream, Let MuleLiar DO HIS WORK.....his "work" is 16 months on



I sense that its NOT what the Oh Pee thinks it is

 

[SpeareChucker]

If the Democrats never complain about voter fraud, it implies that they don't want to be implicated...



... which is why they're screaming about Russia. If we focus on Russia and Republicans, we aren't looking at them.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Funny, how we can be told to focus on meetings with Russians and the attempt to get dirt on Hillary while being admonished to not look behind the curtain and Hillary paying Russian operatives for Trump dirt.

 

[jaF0]

Whether deliberate fraud or simple incompetence, look at Detroit. When the recount was started, they couldn't even verify the number of boxes of ballots turned in by the Precincts. When a discrepancy was found from a Precinct they 'were not allowed' to count the votes from that Precinct.

That alone should have mandated a full recount of all Precincts in the city.

 

[BB10]

if there was NO FRAUD....why did they sue from DAY 1 and scream RACISM from DAY 1?



WHY?

WE KNOW WHY!

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Qanon said JFK is working on the issue. No worries.

 

[about_average]

If the Democrats never complain about voter fraud, it implies that they don't want to be implicated...

Wrong, again.
It's because they know it's effectively a non-issue.
And they probably laugh about it since it's primarily republicans who commit voter fraud.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Don't care. Don't think that it is the real underlying issue here. The same people who are hyperventilating about Trump and Russian interference are all too often the same ones dismissing domestic attempts at election meddling. It's the rank hypocrisy of it all. Either you want secure elections, or you don't, and Trump should not be the focus of your calculus.

So, to summarize NotAJ:
"If YOU want ME to accept your premise that the moon is round, then YOU have to accept MY premise that the moon is made of green cheese! And if you don't it's "rank hypocrisy".

 

[someoneyouknow]

Don't care. Don't think that it is the real underlying issue here.

The same people who are hyperventilating about Trump and Russian interference are all too often the same ones dismissing domestic attempts at election meddling.

It's the rank hypocrisy of it all. Either you want secure elections, or you don't, and Trump should not be the focus of your calculus.

If you don't care about my facts, why should I care about your deflections?

 

[Comshaw]

If the Democrats never complain about voter fraud, it implies that they don't want to be implicated...



... which is why they're screaming about Russia. If we focus on Russia and Republicans, we aren't looking at them.

Up here in the northwest we did do an investigation and found voter fraud....to the tune of 74 cases. Yep that's gunna go a looooooong way in getting to the 5,000,000 claimed by the Donald. Yep, yep.

Funny, how we can be told to focus on meetings with Russians and the attempt to get dirt on Hillary while being admonished to not look behind the curtain and Hillary paying Russian operatives for Trump dirt.

And you have verifiable hard proof of that claim? Or is that just a "I heard it said so it's gotta be true" thing? Wait...let me guess..the deep state at work trying to get Hillary elected right? So if the entire "deep state" was trying to get Hillary elected and they are so powerful, why isn't she in the white house rather then the Donald?

Christ on a fucking crutch.

Comshaw

 

[someoneyouknow]

Up here in the northwest we did do an investigation and found voter fraud....to the tune of 74 cases. Yep that's gunna go a looooooong way in getting to the 5,000,000 claimed by the Donald. Yep, yep.

Comshaw

In PA, Republicans were so concerned about voter fraud they couldn't come up with a single instance:

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/ahead-of-voter-id-trial-pennsylvania-admits-there-s-no-in-person-voter-fraud

That's not to say there wasn't some vote fraud. From 2000 to almost the end of 2017, there were a possible 544 cases of noncitizens voting out of 90 million votes cast during that same period.

http://standardnews.com/pennsylvania-voter-fraud/

So yeah, millions of illegal votes cast for Hillary. Votes Republicans can't even show happened.

 

[about_average]

And you have verifiable hard proof of that claim? Or is that just a "I heard it said so it's gotta be true" thing?

The latter. He doesn't know the difference between meeting a representative of the Russian government to get dirt on an opponent vs hiring an opposition research firm contractor who happens to know people in the Russian government who will blab.

By his logic, Aldrich Ames was representing the United States.

 

[Dribble]

Republicans are idiots. I am ready to ditch them and give them they half of the country. Do what you want. Leave us the fuck alone. In 5 years....they will be begging "take us back". Fuckem.