Community Values?!@#

[catalina_francisco]

I have had it mentioned to me of late by a few posters that we seem to be going in a direction here of separating and segregating, and that it is of concern to them. I have to agree in part, though for the most part I do not think it is people's intention when they begin a thread which invites participation of people only from a particular country (not cultural discussions, but discussions only between those of a particular country or culture), or of a particular role (eg. all switches or all subs or all Dom/mes etc. invited as the ones wanted in the thread), or set up a thread for visiting or posting to a particular poster, usually the thread starter...much more likely it is done without thinking how it might look or feel to others.

We have over the years managed to establish a fairly cohesive community here full of characters and personalities of varying and sometimes unique qualities, with diverse experiences and knowledge to share with everyone. For the most part I think that is what makes it one of the best and busiest BDSM forums on the net which has not fallen foul to descending into nothing but posing, bitching, inane chatter and bragging. It is a place where many have found they can come for unbiased and honest advice and support, and from many viewpoints, not to mention friendship...some of us have been fortunate enough to meet others from here and loved the experience. Hey, and don't forget our many marriages and relationships which have occurred between fellow BDSM Litsters.....that has to be some kind of record, if not magic!!

While I appreciate some people might want to come to the forum and just have one thread to visit, or a place they can call theirs, it doesn't do much toward maintaining the sharing nature we have encouraged and developed here where everyone Dom/me, sub/slave, switch alike is treated and seen as an equal member of the community. It also is not possible by Lit rules which state a thread starter does not won that thread or rule what happens within it. We are not here to establish hierarchies, or play out roles to the degree Dom/mes hold top position and command the attention and respect of all others beneath them....we come here as equals to share our experiences, joys, sorrows, disappointments, frustrations, bad moods, good moods, triumphs, thoughts and knowledge and hopefully support each other and grow a little from the whole blend of personalities, roles, and lives lived.

I don't want this taken the wrong way, or as a way of singling out people, as it is not the intention because as I said, I believe most if not all do not establish threads with the intention of appearing to exclude others or place themselves above everyone else or be seen as 'special' or with more knowledge than the rest...I just want to encourage people to think outside their first thought and see how their actions might impact on some, and the community spirit as a whole. There are some here, both past and present who have commanded respect and trust without it being their intention, but done so through their words and the way they have established trust with others through the truth of those words, openness, and their sharing with everyone. As I said, it is much like when you meet someone online as a prospective partner....you learn to trust and respect them bit by bit through their behaviour and words, not because they tell you that you must or limit knowledge to their thoughts only....Shadowsdream is one who springs to mind who has developed that level of trust in this community....there are others also. We are a community, have been for several years, hopefully we will continue to be.

Catalina

 

[serijules]

I think this forum has its share of problems and issues (as any forum does), but I have to say I haven't seen what you are speaking of.

Perhaps it is because I am not a frequent poster or visitor. I rarely do more than skim the titles of most threads, and I only open and participate in the ones that truly interest me. So threads broken down by my interests are actually quite handy. I don't tend to read posts, for instance, that are geared towards dominant issues or ideas or whatnot because the only dominant that I focus on is my own. How others would handle an issue doesn't impact me so I don't spend my limited time here reading about those issues. Other submissives or slaves however, have input that can help me learn and give me new ideas.

Most don't have a lot of time to spend here...heck, it took me 4+ years to get to 1000 posts. So I appreciate being able to easily find threads that are of interest to me. I've never thought of it as segregation...to me it's simply people posting in areas that interest them. Some people enjoy the flirting and teasing that goes along with being a more known part of the community...some people don't have the time or personality for it (like me). I think the two balance each other out pretty well. As I said though, I don't read often enough or in depth enough to maybe notice the issues you are talking of, so I may not be the best to comment.

What I DO think needs to be worked on is the tendacy to immediately make fun of or talk down to those that may not have the same ease with language as most do. Be it because English isn't their first language, or because they are young or very new or rather ignorant or hiding shyness with misplaced ego...I wince every time I open a thread to see the way a lot of people treat others. I get very annoyed by a lot of those characteristics too, but I don't see it as an excuse to be a bitch/asshole. There's too much bitchiness in the world today and too many people are too much at ease displacing that online because they can hide behind a screen...it gets tiring. I would propose that more people take a look at what they are saying and how they are saying it, and decide if it really is necessary to inject so much attitude. The old "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" lesson is something I think the world as a whole could do with a good dose of.

My comments are definately not directed at any particular person(s), lest someone decide to take offence that wasn't intended...I've felt this way since the very first day I came here, and I've often taken long sabaticals from this forum because of it...as have many others.

Just my two cents.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Community, no; Communities maybe....

I have always said that I doubt if this forum is a community. Understand this is my opinion, so hold the flamethrowing and save it for someone who gives a sh__.


It may be construed as many differing communities if you insist on using that word. Others may say is a more accurate label if you must use one.

It is also composed of many different personalities, nationalities, ethnic groups and lifestyles so getting consensus on how to behave is nearly impossible.

We are all supposed to be adults so telling other adults what to do is out of the question. If someone steps on your toes, then move your toes. That is all you can do. If what someone writes torques you, then don't read it!

Sheesh people, this is not rocket science!

Eb

 

[Betticus]

I just want my belly rubbed.

 

[neonflux]

I just want my belly rubbed.

Only if you promise to purrrr.... Neon

P.S., Sorry Cat, I know that the thread is important but I just couldn't resist...

 

[catalina_francisco]

Only if you promise to purrrr.... Neon

P.S., Sorry Cat, I know that the thread is important but I just couldn't resist...

Only as important as people feel...and hey, have you learned to purr from your pussies Betticus?!!

Catalina

 

[FurryFury]

I love this forum. I think everyone knows that. I don't feel excluded, pity the fool that tries that. LOL.

Fury

 

[Netzach]

I've never felt shy about posting in a "male subs..." or even a "female subs..." thread if I felt I had something to say based on my switching years or the experience of subs of mine or things I like to do to subs. And no one's ever said "hey bitch, shut up this thread is for us..."

though I'm sure they may have thought it. And I don't really care either way.

 

[saw_man1]

Wouldn’t the much touted freedom of speech that allows a moderator to stand on his right to “..insult anyone I feel deserves it”, allow anyone else to start a thread geared towards a targeted audience?

 

[cati]

Catalina I think that is what makes it one of the best and busiest BDSM forums on the net which has not fallen foul to descending into nothing but posing, bitching, inane chatter and bragging. It is a place where many have found they can come for unbiased and honest advice and support, and from many viewpoints, not to mention friendship


Absolutely true, while Lit. does offer the above mentioned items fer sure,
ie. bitching, inane chatter and the occasionally bragging they also provide cookies for those needing snacks.

 

[Etoile]

I have seen a few threads that appeal to specific types, but I have never felt that they are meant to be exclusionary. I have only seen one that insisted it was for a certain type of person - and that was very recent. (I'm thinking of the "online domination/submission" thread being labeled ONLY for those in cyber-relationships.)

For me personally, if I don't really fit the thread's audience, I probably don't have much to say on it anyway. But like Netzach, I'm not scared away by threads with a defined audience. If it's an interesting topic, I'll read it, but I may not have anything to say so I simply don't comment there.

And like Serijules, I think we sometimes need to remember that we are from different backgrounds. Not everybody's native language is English, and even for those who do speak English natively, not everybody is great at expressing themselves clearly through text. We are all different and all deserving of respect, except the trolls!

 

[angel_girl]

I just want my belly rubbed.

*rubrubrub*

only because I'm up and noticed.

sweet dreams Betticus...

 

[Daddyslilpet]

We are all supposed to be adults so telling other adults what to do is out of the question. If someone steps on your toes, then move your toes. That is all you can do. If what someone writes torques you, then don't read it!

Sheesh people, this is not rocket science!

Eb

This is an excellent point and one I think should be repeated.


And now as to my thoughts on this matter...

I also like the threads where the topic is clear from the title, that way if I know I have no information to add I can skip that topic. As for being exclusionary, I don't see it either. However, I do see the rudeness and argumentative posts others have mentioned. Folks are very quick to jump down each others throats around here. That's part of the reason I lurk more than post anymore. Seems just about every time I post I get jumped on for my words so why should I bother? I don't need that.

I've quit trying to participate in anything remotely resembling a serious discussion. I'm sick of being jumped on, or made to feel I don't know what I'm talking about. I've said it before it's really hard to keep putting yourself out there when you pour your heart out only to have it stomped on.

Anyway... sorry got off on a bit of a tangent there. So back to my answer... No I don't see division in the community based on threads.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I've quit trying to participate in anything remotely resembling a serious discussion.

Which I think is a crying shame because you always have something well thought out and interesting to say. I think I can say this because we do not always agree, but i always can see your point of view even if mine is different.

I'm sick of being jumped on, or made to feel I don't know what I'm talking about. I've said it before it's really hard to keep putting yourself out there when you pour your heart out only to have it stomped on.

I am nodding my head here, because this has become a place where a differing opinion is seen as criticism. I have had my own posts and replies twisted and turned and have had people who did not know what was going on in the post jump on the bandwagon because of whatever reason.

 

[saw_man1]

I've quit trying to participate in anything remotely resembling a serious discussion. I'm sick of being jumped on, or made to feel I don't know what I'm talking about. I've said it before it's really hard to keep putting yourself out there when you pour your heart out only to have it stomped on.

********

 

[Ebonyfire]

I am sorry to hear that.

Dixi has a lot to say, and she does it very well I might add.

 

[Kajira Callista]

because this has become a place where a differing opinion is seen as criticism. I have had my own posts and replies twisted and turned and have had people who did not know what was going on in the post jump on the bandwagon because of whatever reason.

Which is why I prefer to lurk or post fluff here.
There are threads that I would really like to post to but I do not because I don't care for being attacked for not only things I feel but things I have done.
It is a shame a BDSM forum strays so far away from BDSM more often then not.

 

[dominiqque]

I've been in and out in recent months, reading for the most part. My personal feelings on this subject are as follows. Those people who have been around here for years have no doubt come across every topic imaginable pertaining to kink, D/s BDSM... whatever and they seem bored with all of it. Hence, all they seem to do is criticise, mock, hi-jack threads and back bite. Alot of what has gone on recently in a couple of threads stem from personal issues involving others who are again "oldtimers" and relative newbies get sucked into the mire. If you want new people posting here regularly, someone has got to make some attempt to clean up shop. Alot of people have grown too comfortable with their smarmy posting, knowing full well that their behaviour will be tolerated, and seriously, isn't it time to allow for a new wave of people to join these forums. Some sort of changes need to be made. Moderators included.
Just as others have said in earlier posts...if you don't like the subject matter, don't post for pete's sakes, why ruin things for others....why not STFO and move on quietly?

 

[neonflux]

for what it's worth, my 2¢...

I like this forum. It is probably the friendliest I've found on Lit, and I've spent a great deal of time on the GLBT and a little less on the AH - both of which I also like. (Cat, thank you )As a newbie, I felt very welcome here, almost immediately - and I know that it takes time to trust folks online, just as it does in RL. (Dixie, I accept that your experience may be different and I am sorry for that, hope I haven't contributed. I also hope you'll consider starting to post again.) I like the answers I get here for serious questions, I enjoy the links that people post, I like the ideas I get for scenes (as a newbie switch, very important - although watching folks at community play spacesl is a whole heck of a lot of fun, too . Even more so, I love this as a place to explore my kink and how it relates to my sexuality, my spirituality, my intellectual outlook.

I also think it's a fun place to be. While I don't enjoy the occassional sniping I read between people who may have uneasy relationships with each other, I skip those conversations and look for posts and dialogues that are helpful, or fun and playful. I don't mind the occassional thread designed for a particular group of people as long as the majority of threads are open to all of us (I actually have to admit to being an avid lurker on the British and Redneck threads, where I don't really post, just enjoy...) Anyway, I understand the need to sometimes "have a place of one's own" even within a larger community of like-minded folks.

Serijules, I do think that your call for common courtesy is important - I have to admit to recently violating this basic foundation of community and was not happy about it after.

And Ebonyfire, I liked this statement of yours, "We are all supposed to be adults so telling other adults what to do is out of the question. If someone steps on your toes, then move your toes. That is all you can do. If what someone writes torques you, then don't read it!"

I think that's it except to say thank you to everyone...
Neon

 

[ammre]

ditto serijules. I'm on many years here and i haven't hit a thousand because of a combination of life and annoyance pull me away.
Sometimes i wish there was less flirting and fluff, sometimes i wish people would put their ego away for a second and stop being nasty, but all the time the positive i get from these boards outweighs the negative. So i come back. Anyone who is really intrested in participating or reading these boards will find a way to sift through the exclusiveness.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Which I think is a crying shame because you always have something well thought out and interesting to say. I think I can say this because we do not always agree, but i always can see your point of view even if mine is different.

Thank you for the encouragement. I'll give it another shot for a while and see where this goes. Yes that's me always the masochist...LOL. I just can't help myself.

 

[serijules]

ditto serijules. I'm on many years here and i haven't hit a thousand because of a combination of life and annoyance pull me away.
Sometimes i wish there was less flirting and fluff, sometimes i wish people would put their ego away for a second and stop being nasty, but all the time the positive i get from these boards outweighs the negative. So i come back. Anyone who is really intrested in participating or reading these boards will find a way to sift through the exclusiveness.

I agree...I take breaks now and then when I find that it's just too much and my enjoyment of being here is clouded by insecurity or hurt feelings or long-lasting annoyance. This is one of my very few "fun" places to spend time online, so when it stops being something I look forward to pulling up on my favourites, I take a break. That has worked very well for me as I have yet to get myself involved in a discussion that has degraded to insult throwing and flaming.

I also avoid the fluff and flirting because while it may make me more "well known" and more a part of the exclusiveness so to speak, it would also make me feel fake as that really is not my personality. There are times I wish more people would respond to what I say or even show signs that they even know I exist here, but on the other hand, I'd rather be known for quality over quantity too. I never say anything when I leave (aka, no drama). I don't want to be known for drama either but I have to admit drama is what makes a person memorable LOL.

Despite the problems, this IS the highest quality BDSM board I've found in my years of participating online and I'm not going to let personal insecurities and difference of personalities stop me from appreciating it for the most part.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

I've been in and out in recent months, reading for the most part. My personal feelings on this subject are as follows. Those people who have been around here for years have no doubt come across every topic imaginable pertaining to kink, D/s BDSM... whatever and they seem bored with all of it. Hence, all they seem to do is criticise, mock, hi-jack threads and back bite. Alot of what has gone on recently in a couple of threads stem from personal issues involving others who are again "oldtimers" and relative newbies get sucked into the mire. If you want new people posting here regularly, someone has got to make some attempt to clean up shop. Alot of people have grown too comfortable with their smarmy posting, knowing full well that their behaviour will be tolerated, and seriously, isn't it time to allow for a new wave of people to join these forums. Some sort of changes need to be made. Moderators included.
Just as others have said in earlier posts...if you don't like the subject matter, don't post for pete's sakes, why ruin things for others....why not STFO and move on quietly?

Trust me not every "oldtimer" here is like that or feels comfortable here. No matter what it may appear like. Some of us are just too stubborn to leave. Like myself, while I may not "say" much on occasion, I lurk often. I've never left completely.

Welcome to the forums by the way, hope you enjoy your stay. These cycles come and go. The tide will change again real soon, just mark my words.


On another note...

I am one of the ones that does flirt on occasion as well, it is in my nature. However, I tend to try and keep that located in the cafe where the fluffy more playful threads should be, and the serious discussions in here where they belong. That's the reason the forums were originally split the way they were and I try to follow the rules. However I am human and will slip up at times, as will everyone. Again, we are all adults here and should remember we can't tell each other what to do. I only answer to one person and that's because I give Him that power over me.

I don't see those of us who do flirt putting down those who do not. As a matter of fact we never mention it at all. Would be nice to have the same courtesy extended to us. I get that there are those that do not like it. Fine, just ignore it and move along, no one is asking you to join in and no one is putting you down nor trying to make you feel bad for not doing it. It is just who we are, plain and simple.

I'm sorry but someone had to say it. I mean no offense and I will not argue about this.

 

[dominiqque]

Thanks for the welcome Serijules. To let you know, I've noticed and read your posts many times.

Dixiecritter, no offense taken and no argument here either. Not sure I said anything about flirting tho'...in my opinion flirting is healthy human behaviour.
We are social creatures afterall.

 

[Bredon]

I canmore or less copy what Neon said-- apart from a little highjacking and stuff like that I felt that I got pretty good helpful answers and felt not too newbie-ish. I've beento worse forums.
I think, it'sinteresting that so many different people have complains, poeple that seemed to me very "cool, ingroup-y" I wonder if it is not a lot of human insecurity and you know, the small things of life, that is playing out here? Meaning,sometimes people get hurt, etc. but generally we are all quite ok and nice.

Sorry for blabbering, I hope you get what I mean--

Bredon

Neon wrote:

As a newbie, I felt very welcome here, almost immediately - and I know that it takes time to trust folks online, just as it does in RL. (Dixie, I accept that your experience may be different and I am sorry for that, hope I haven't contributed. I also hope you'll consider starting to post again.) I like the answers I get here for serious questions, I enjoy the links that people post, I like the ideas I get for scenes (as a newbie switch, very important - although watching folks at community play spacesl is a whole heck of a lot of fun, too . Even more so, I love this as a place to explore my kink and how it relates to my sexuality, my spirituality, my intellectual outlook.

I also think it's a fun place to be. While I don't enjoy the occassional sniping I read between people who may have uneasy relationships with each other, I skip those conversations and look for posts and dialogues that are helpful, or fun and playful. I don't mind the occassional thread designed for a particular group of people as long as the majority of threads are open to all of us (I actually have to admit to being an avid lurker on the British and Redneck threads, where I don't really post, just enjoy...) Anyway, I understand the need to sometimes "have a place of one's own" even within a larger community of like-minded folks.