Code of ethics/protocals

[esclave_PP]

How important do you think a code of ethics or protocals are to BDSM? Do you think that there should be an overall code of ethics for BDSM or that each relationship be allowed to enjoy their own set of rules? Should there be preset protocals that are adhered to or should it be "free to be you and me?" What are your opinions?

 

[snowboundsubbie]

As a new sub, my feelings on this are that there should be a set of rules in each relationship. What would work in one relationship may not work in another. I would hate to see a one size fits all thing because then it could limit a BDSM relationship and it would not be able to grow or expand. BDSM to me is 'outside of the box' on so many levels that putting any limits on it would be harmful.

 

[MissTaken]

As a new sub, my feelings on this are that there should be a set of rules in each relationship. What would work in one relationship may not work in another. I would hate to see a one size fits all thing because then it could limit a BDSM relationship and it would not be able to grow or expand. BDSM to me is 'outside of the box' on so many levels that putting any limits on it would be harmful.

This would be a tough post to follow.

So I will simply say.....


"what she said!"



BDSM is much like giving a couple the paint, pallette and brushes and watching as the masterpiece unfolds.

No rules, only a blank canvas to fill with our needs, desires and visions.

 

[Shadowsdream]

I believe that the answer must be individually applied but in My space ethics are vital for My enjoyment of BDSM. As are rules and rituals.
I am quite formal so protocol just makes sense to Me. I have little doubt that My formality could be a real pain in the ass for those that enjoy a looser knot.
For Me I think there needs to be a blend of easy laughter and respect glued together with ethics protocol rules and rituals.


Good topic!

 

[Kajira Callista]

I think that all those things are great for making a good foundation and a well rounded educated sub/slave. I think the relationship needs to be way deeper and more invloved then just those things for it to be good for both Dom and sub. I do love the rituals and positions and such, although every Dominant has thier preference in those....they are not standard by the book kind of things.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Having a code of ethics is personally important for me. Even though I have my own style that has taken shape based on my aggregate life experiences, I find that each relationship is different and evolves in its own way. Just like boundaries can change and shift, a code of ethics tends to shift slightly as the relationship deepens. I never have 100% compatibility with a partner and I do not go so far as brainwashing the submissive to match my preliminary protocols.

 

[MissTaken]

I have a personal code of ethics that I hold dear to me. My initial response was concerning a potential global code of ethics concerning BDSM.



Without ethics and responsibility, how could two people trust one another enough to engage in BDSM or any relationship for that matter?

 

[Justina123]

I very much like being in situations where there are well defined protocols. The personal relationship Sir and I share has many rituals, by this time mostly unspoken rules and a definite shared ethical code.

However, I will also say that, within our circle of friends, we MOST enjoy attending play parties at the home of one particular D/s couple because they have a well defined set of protocols (written) which they ask those who attend their parties to follow, as well as a certain atmosphere created in part by the rules and just be their personalities and own hosting behavior. They hold parties on a regular basis and have a wide variety of attendees, but we always know that when we are there, the atmosphere will be one of: respectful boundaries maintained between all Dominants and all submissives, lots of routineaffection and loving aftercare will be visible, conversations will be on a variety of interesting bdsm and non-bdsm topics but for the most part the language will be "clean" and intelliigent, there will be lots of laughter, a wde variety of play will be viewable in the the dungeon areas and all will respect each other's space there as well as the posted rules of the house, etc.

So, as in the vanilla world, although I don't expect everyone to have the same ethics or behavioral expectations, we tend to spend the most time with those whose codes most closely parallel our own.

justina

 

[MasterNico]

It's been my experience that there are a set of codes and rules in place. Many of them seem to be common sense things to me. You don't touch another's sub without permission. You don't interrupt when someone is in the middle of a scene. You never pick up another dom's toys without asking first. You don't play with someone you've never played with before until you talk about limits. You use, and obey safe words. These are just a few of the things that I see as "universal" throughout the community.

There are other codes and rules, depending on what "splinter group" you belong too. Some old guard folks don't allow their subs to speak or be spoken too without permission, they must be dressed in an appropriate uniform, follow two paces behind at all times, etc.

For some Goreans, the sub must wait at the door for Masters permission to enter the room. No eating until given permission, or even until fed. Presenting themselves in a position of submission, or serving a drink stopping at the three positions before presenting a glass, etc.

Finding YOUR niche is the important thing though. Find what you like, find what works for you and your partner(s). Even if that's a million rules, or none.

 

[Etoile]

I have a personal code of ethics that I hold dear to me. My initial response was concerning a potential global code of ethics concerning BDSM.

I think that's what was being asked about, actually - something for all of us rather than just individually.

As for me, I have a Code of Ethics in my profession, and that's enough!

 

[esclave_PP]

Yes, it was a question if there should be "universal" codes -- which I would actually disagree with -- think it should be left up to the individual relationships out there -- and yes Etoile, there are so many rules out there in our regular lives already -- more would seem to be suffocating (no pun intended). So what are the thoughts to a universal code, knowing that we all or most of us prefer individualized codes, how do you think it would affect the lifestyle over all?

 

[sweetnpetite]

Another good way of looking at the question is:

When is it ok to look at another BDSM couple and say, "That is *not* ok"

Ever?

 

[Etoile]

Another good way of looking at the question is:

When is it ok to look at another BDSM couple and say, "That is *not* ok"

Ever?

Sure. Non-consensual domestic violence in a non-TPE or non-slave relationship. I'd be comfortable saying that's not okay.

 

[sweetnpetite]

Sure. Non-consensual domestic violence in a non-TPE or non-slave relationship. I'd be comfortable saying that's not okay.

It's easily cut and dry when you state it as a rule, but life is rarely so simple. Take for example rape. You can say rape is wrong, and no one will disagree (usually) but when you get into what is rape and what is not, that is were you will have disagreements.

PS-I'm not arguing, just clarifying. Thanks for being willing to be the first to say that something is 'not ok'

 

[cati]

re: BDSM protocol

My Master and I have been together nearly 5 years. We met online in ICQ, courted for a year or so online, before we actually met. W/we read (past tense) most every article we could lay our hands on as well as books pertaining to the BDSM lifestyle...standards of behaviour and protocol were among the topics we deemed important. When we finally began socializing with others in the lifestyle we were dismayed to see a lack of protocol and while most E/everyone seemed to be aware of standards of behaviour, very few seemed to put them into practice. In my opinion there needs to be structure and order within our lives. Standards need to be adhered to.
Yes, there definetly needs to be some flexibility within our own D/s relationships but not so much as to lead us off the path which we so eagerly chose to follow. I for one need routine and structure, following protocol gives me that. Standards of behaviour are put in place to remind us of how special this lifestyle is, as well as reflecting who we are in todays society; indeed BDSM standards and protocol reflect our own sub-culture.

 

[erotic_writer_girl]

How important do you think a code of ethics or protocals are to BDSM? Do you think that there should be an overall code of ethics for BDSM or that each relationship be allowed to enjoy their own set of rules? Should there be preset protocals that are adhered to or should it be "free to be you and me?" What are your opinions?

As a person new to D/s I can only speak for myself.

For me the ideal of D/s is that there is a certain set of protocols, certain boundaries. I would not hook up with a Dom who did not have the ability to stay in control. (Too darn dangerous) I would not submit to a Dom who was not worthy of my submissiveness and who did not wish to examine ...what kind of boundaires would work.. what kind a suitable 'safe word' is or what really works for both of us.

Ok so once I have submnitted it is then up to the Dom to decide the details of when and where and how etc. etc within the guidleines.

Many situations in my life have been, by their very nature beyond my or anyone elses control. (death of loved ones etc..) I dont like that totally lost and helpless lack of control in situations. I do like knowing someone is in control.

just my opinion.

EWG

 

[Quint]

It's easily cut and dry when you state it as a rule, but life is rarely so simple. Take for example rape. You can say rape is wrong, and no one will disagree (usually) but when you get into what is rape and what is not, that is were you will have disagreements.

PS-I'm not arguing, just clarifying. Thanks for being willing to be the first to say that something is 'not ok'

But it's not too difficult to establish what IS and what is NOT a Master/slave relationship, and to differentiate between the Master/slave relationships that allow limits and the ones that don't. In any relationship that allows limits, I don't have any problem saying that nonconsensually crossing them is wrong.

 

[cati]

protocol revisited

Not to argue but I can't but feel we have lost track of the subject. To me "standards" means unspoken codes of conduct between partners or rules of play that are inherent to BDSM. Under that umbrella lies respect, truth, honesty, trust, loyalty, love and caring and a host of other sentiments that all persons practicing this lifestyle should be aware of and attempt to adhere to. Deviation from standards in my opinion, is acceptable within personal relationships and during choreographed play scenes that are negotiated before hand.
Protocol to me means "social etiquette" or how one should behave when coming into contact with other lifestylers when W/we are out at a club or play party. For example: coming into contact with other Dom/mes or subs and lowering our eyes, not speaking without permission and calling others Sir or Ma'am accordingly. In other words showing common courtesy and respect.

 

[Never]

malcah_ms:
"How important do you think a code of ethics or protocols are to BDSM?"
I think that the BDSM community benefits from having a code of ethics both internally and externally.

"Do you think that there should be an overall code of ethics for BDSM or that each relationship be allowed to enjoy their own set of rules?"
I think we should all give lip service to the ethics and then do whatever we want.

"Should there be preset protocols that are adhered to or should it be "free to be you and me?"
Currently, I don't act on any previously established protocols.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Another good way of looking at the question is:

When is it ok to look at another BDSM couple and say, "That is *not* ok"

Ever?

i personally feel there is never a point where it is okay to look at another couple...bdsm, vanilla, D/s, or anything else...from the outside in, and say "that is 'not' okay". because we can never know, from the outside, one can only make assumptions and judgements based on those assumptions, combined with our own individual, personal beliefs about what is and is not acceptable in a relationship. the idea of other people feeling they have the right to deem my relationship with my Mate as good or bad, right or wrong...sickens and saddens me. something is not right when those in the relationship feel and say it is not right. those on the outside have no place to gauge that point for anyone else.

 

[Never]

Originally posted by sweetnpetite:
"Another good way of looking at the question is:

When is it ok to look at another BDSM couple and say, "That is *not* ok"

Ever?"

The things that I consider *not* okay aren't limited to BDSM couples.

ownedsubgal:
"i personally feel there is never a point where it is okay to look at another couple...bdsm, vanilla, D/s, or anything else...from the outside in, and say "that is 'not' okay". because we can never know, from the outside, one can only make assumptions and judgements based on those assumptions, combined with our own individual, personal beliefs about what is and is not acceptable in a relationship."

Oh, please. That's just an excuse to not get involved. The BDSM community doesn't gain anything from ignoring abusive or just poisonous relationships inside of it just because they "have no right to judge". If nothing else, I'd say the community is obliged to acknowledged that not everything that is called BDSM is "okay".

 

[ownedsubgal]

Originally posted by sweetnpetite:
"Another good way of looking at the question is:

When is it ok to look at another BDSM couple and say, "That is *not* ok"

Ever?"

The things that I consider *not* okay aren't limited to BDSM couples.

ownedsubgal:
"i personally feel there is never a point where it is okay to look at another couple...bdsm, vanilla, D/s, or anything else...from the outside in, and say "that is 'not' okay". because we can never know, from the outside, one can only make assumptions and judgements based on those assumptions, combined with our own individual, personal beliefs about what is and is not acceptable in a relationship."

Oh, please. That's just an excuse to not get involved. The BDSM community doesn't gain anything from ignoring abusive or just poisonous relationships inside of it just because they "have no right to judge". If nothing else, I'd say the community is obliged to acknowledged that not everything that is called BDSM is "okay".

and who is the allmighty judge as to what is okay or not okay? who is that person who can say, what is right and what is wrong for absolutely everyone else in the world? imo, no one. it is not an excuse not to get involved...if someone ever came to me wanting help from a relationship that was not healthy for them, i would do all i was able. in a heartbeat, without hesitation. but i am not going to stick my nose in unasked and impose my own personal values on another couple. it's disrespectful, and unethical in and of itself, imo.

 

[Never]

ownedsubgal:
" and who is the allmighty judge as to what is okay or not okay? who is that person who can say, what is right and what is wrong for absolutely everyone else in the world? imo, no one. "

If you're an adult then you ought to have a concept of right and wrong that you hold "absolutely everyone else in the world" to.

"but i am not going to stick my nose in unasked and impose my own personal values on another couple. it's disrespectful, and unethical in and of itself, imo"

If you stick your nose in, the worst thing that happens is that you get embarrassed. If you don't stick your nose in, the worst thing that happens is that ends up in the ICU or spends years suffering from abuse and thinking its just part of being a 'real' sub. I think sticking your nose in is only unethical if you don't consider the consequences of your inaction.

 

[ownedsubgal]

ownedsubgal:
" and who is the allmighty judge as to what is okay or not okay? who is that person who can say, what is right and what is wrong for absolutely everyone else in the world? imo, no one. "

If you're an adult then you ought to have a concept of right and wrong that you hold "absolutely everyone else in the world" to.

>>>i am indeed an adult, but i do not hold everyone in the world to the same values and ethics. a relationship i may be incapable of understanding, incapable of seeing any good or beauty in, could be bliss for those within it. it is simply, not my place, or anyone else's place, to judge.

"but i am not going to stick my nose in unasked and impose my own personal values on another couple. it's disrespectful, and unethical in and of itself, imo"

If you stick your nose in, the worst thing that happens is that you get embarrassed. If you don't stick your nose in, the worst thing that happens is that ends up in the ICU or spends years suffering from abuse and thinking its just part of being a 'real' sub. I think sticking your nose in is only unethical if you don't consider the consequences of your inaction.

>>you are wrong...when you stick your nose in to the intimate and personal affairs of another couple, uninvited and unwanted, far worse can happen than anyone being embarassed. i can recount many tragic stories of people being sent to prison unjustly...relationships being torn apart...lives being ruined...all because someone on the outside, claiming to have good intentions, stuck their nose in.

 

[sigsauerprinces]

*sticks her nose in*

i think you both have a point.

Never-you're correct that there is a time that you should get invovled. there are times when its obviously more unethical NOT to stick you nose in. like if someone is quite obviously needing help.

but i also agree with osg-there are plenty of relationships that to the outside world would look abusive, but both parties are fully happy and content and no one is being abused against their will.

the hard part is telling the difference btween the two. its not always clear cut.