Cliff notes version of the Bush "Plan for Victory"
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ChauvanistPig
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zipman said:
Excellent summation.
It's hard to make changes in the plan now since there was none to begin with.
Pookie
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ChauvanistPig
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zipman said:I like that.
Btw, did you notice he stopped using "insurgents" and started using "rejectionists?"
That's one way to counter claims that the insurgency is still growing. Change the name.
Much like the switch from "war on terror" a few months back.
zipman
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This quote is from Harry Reid who I generally don't agree with but I think he summed it up quite well.
"Democrats and Republicans called on the president to change course and release a strategy for success in Iraq with specific benchmarks by which the progress could be measured. Today, President Bush failed to meet this call. Instead, he recycled his tired rhetoric of 'stay the course' and once again missed an opportunity to lay out a real strategy for success in Iraq that will bring our troops safely home."
-- Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada
"Democrats and Republicans called on the president to change course and release a strategy for success in Iraq with specific benchmarks by which the progress could be measured. Today, President Bush failed to meet this call. Instead, he recycled his tired rhetoric of 'stay the course' and once again missed an opportunity to lay out a real strategy for success in Iraq that will bring our troops safely home."
-- Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada
zipman
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Hillary's comments were also dead on:
"It is time for the president to stop serving up platitudes and present us with a plan for finishing this war with success and honor -- not a rigid timetable that terrorists can exploit, but a public plan for winning and concluding the war."
-- Democratic Sen. Hilary Clinton of New York
"It is time for the president to stop serving up platitudes and present us with a plan for finishing this war with success and honor -- not a rigid timetable that terrorists can exploit, but a public plan for winning and concluding the war."
-- Democratic Sen. Hilary Clinton of New York
zipman
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Here's a comment from Bill Frist. A guy that never "gets it."
"Some Democrats have been playing politics with the war in Iraq for partisan political gain. Today we saw real leadership. By looking past the rhetoric and examining the results on the ground, it's clear that we continue to make progress on the political, security and economic fronts, and that as Iraq progresses, so does our strategy."
-- Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee
Playing politics for political gain? Terri Schiavo anyone?
"Some Democrats have been playing politics with the war in Iraq for partisan political gain. Today we saw real leadership. By looking past the rhetoric and examining the results on the ground, it's clear that we continue to make progress on the political, security and economic fronts, and that as Iraq progresses, so does our strategy."
-- Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee
Playing politics for political gain? Terri Schiavo anyone?
zipman
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Just to be fair, I think there has been some good progress in Iraq but to be honest, the Bush administration has done a lousy job of getting that information out.
The bottom line is that people want clear metrics and goals that will signal when the war and US troop involvement levels will drop. I don't advocate bringing the troops home immediately at all.
I am even okay with not having a deadline for all troops being out of Iraq. But I think what we need is metrics that will determine when and how many troops will be returned home.
That is what this country is asking for a Bush came up totally lame last night in his "Plan for Victory." Only a moron like Frist would consider dodging the issue "leadership."
The bottom line is that people want clear metrics and goals that will signal when the war and US troop involvement levels will drop. I don't advocate bringing the troops home immediately at all.
I am even okay with not having a deadline for all troops being out of Iraq. But I think what we need is metrics that will determine when and how many troops will be returned home.
That is what this country is asking for a Bush came up totally lame last night in his "Plan for Victory." Only a moron like Frist would consider dodging the issue "leadership."
Lancecastor
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zipman said:
There is no doubt that Bush is the worst President since....Bush 1.
No...since Reagan.
Uh, no...since Ford.
Hold it....since Nixon.
Or was it Johnson?
Hamletmaschine
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His War on Louisiana is still going quite well, though, I must say.
Queersetti
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zipman said:
It's not fair to expect him to have a victory plan now, when he delared the war won more than a year and a half ago.
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bloggraphics/mission-accomplished.jpg
Gord
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it does look like everyone is sitting around going shit , what the fuck do we do know
I don see any win win scenarios round the corner - more like loose loose . Blair is just as bad he will never actually admit that there might be a insy little problem
In a side note job of the month must be on the Saadam defense team - already two attourneys have been assinated and a further 1/3 have fled abroad !!
I don see any win win scenarios round the corner - more like loose loose . Blair is just as bad he will never actually admit that there might be a insy little problem
In a side note job of the month must be on the Saadam defense team - already two attourneys have been assinated and a further 1/3 have fled abroad !!
Plasmaball
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i just want to add what i was hearing on fox news last night. Basially for about `5 months we were training the iraqi troops all wrong.It took 15 or so months for this government to say they made a mistake. Saying trainging them to be border patrol was the wrong thing to do.
So we wasted 1500? lives for this mistake? Yet people on here think it was a good thing to go into Iraq? SHAME
So we wasted 1500? lives for this mistake? Yet people on here think it was a good thing to go into Iraq? SHAME
LukkyKnight
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Nation building is not easy, and since it was explicitly not what we set out to do there was really no way the plan (for want of a better term) could include setting up the proper tools and social/governmental infrastructure. To even appear to be considering the "right" way to train the Iraqi replacement troops/police was antithetical to the mindset. The team's hope was that we could go in, do the shock and awe thing, catch Hussein buggering Bin Laden, and find some big bad WMDs. At that point we would've won.
No plan survives contact with the enemy. Enter the platitudes, that is what Bush's speechwriters know to do.
This has been an exercise in spin since the idea of landing on the aircraft carrier took hold of the administration - and it's looking more and more like a very short-sighted strategy to be NOT doing certain things, and importantly not to appear to be doing them, was used in place of having any real plan other than finding the mythical smoking gun. The deck of cards made for an impressive list only to those who thought cell-oriented oposition would falter with the capture of the obvious leaders.
Yeah, Saddam was bad, and removing him has a certain merit. When one politician accuses another of playing politics the odds are somewhat better than 50/50 that that first one is doing so himself. If we could've defined this in proper military and diplomatic goals then the stragegies and tactics could've been crafted. Instead we got sucked into a war to secure the WMDs and now we can't stop saying how good it was to take down a bad dictator, so we're going to stay and become occupiers instead of liberators, and every nation that thinks Bush is an arrogant sumnabitch is willing to wait and watch while the Cheney~Rumsfeld cabal spins and spins.
Stay the course indeed.
No plan survives contact with the enemy. Enter the platitudes, that is what Bush's speechwriters know to do.
This has been an exercise in spin since the idea of landing on the aircraft carrier took hold of the administration - and it's looking more and more like a very short-sighted strategy to be NOT doing certain things, and importantly not to appear to be doing them, was used in place of having any real plan other than finding the mythical smoking gun. The deck of cards made for an impressive list only to those who thought cell-oriented oposition would falter with the capture of the obvious leaders.
Yeah, Saddam was bad, and removing him has a certain merit. When one politician accuses another of playing politics the odds are somewhat better than 50/50 that that first one is doing so himself. If we could've defined this in proper military and diplomatic goals then the stragegies and tactics could've been crafted. Instead we got sucked into a war to secure the WMDs and now we can't stop saying how good it was to take down a bad dictator, so we're going to stay and become occupiers instead of liberators, and every nation that thinks Bush is an arrogant sumnabitch is willing to wait and watch while the Cheney~Rumsfeld cabal spins and spins.
Stay the course indeed.
