Clarification on sensitive content: hate

[WildCard001]

So, I had a story idea in my head, including futanari on female and interracial. Thing is, I want to include... a certain word (I'm not gonna say it just to be safe) that could upset/offend more than a handful of people, but likewise also get a lot of people to nut.
I have a feeling I know the answer, but would using this word in the throes of amazing, mind-melting sex, as opposed to actually hating the character, break the content rule? The rule in question is

• Works that promote or glorify hate, intolerance, or violence towards any person or group.

Please note; I am not a racist. There is no racist intention in using this word, it's simply for the writing of the character.

 

[Bamagan]

So, I had a story idea in my head, including futanari on female and interracial. Thing is, I want to include... a certain word (I'm not gonna say it just to be safe) that could upset/offend more than a handful of people, but likewise also get a lot of people to nut.
I have a feeling I know the answer, but would using this word in the throes of amazing, mind-melting sex, as opposed to actually hating the character, break the content rule? The rule in question is

• Works that promote or glorify hate, intolerance, or violence towards any person or group.

Please note; I am not a racist. There is no racist intention in using this word, it's simply for the writing of the character.

If it gets kicked back citing that rule, you'll have your answer. There's rarely any penalty for rejected stories other than time wasted waiting to find out.
The 'I am not a racist' disclaimer is also not likely to work particularly well. Publishing a porn story about one or more characters who are racists will likely lead offended readers to assuming that you are, or at best, that you're turned on by racists and/or want to play to that audience. It's not flawless logic on their part, certainly, but when the language used is in the interests of 'nutting' it's not likely to earn one much benefit of doubt. But dirty talk takes many forms, so you can probably find ways to make it clear that it's essentially the same as other kinks related to verbal abuse (assuming that's your intent, anyway).

 

[WildCard001]

If it gets kicked back citing that rule, you'll have your answer. There's rarely any penalty for rejected stories other than time wasted waiting to find out.
The 'I am not a racist' disclaimer is also not likely to work particularly well. Publishing a porn story about one or more characters who are racists will likely lead offended readers to assuming that you are, or at best, that you're turned on by racists and/or want to play to that audience. It's not flawless logic on their part, certainly, but when the language used is in the interests of 'nutting' it's not likely to earn one much benefit of doubt. But dirty talk takes many forms, so you can probably find ways to make it clear that it's essentially the same as other kinks related to verbal abuse (assuming that's your intent, anyway).

Thanks for the response, I understand there's no flawless logic in declaring "I'm not X or Y", I just figured it would at the very least provide some padding, so to speak, instead of leaving it bare.

As for the use of the word itself, I'm not aiming for any kind of verbal abuse, or abuse of any kind, instead, merely a kind of call and response. "You like it, huh? Tell me!" "I love it! I love -blahblahblah-"

 

[Bramblethorn]

So, I had a story idea in my head, including futanari on female and interracial. Thing is, I want to include... a certain word (I'm not gonna say it just to be safe) that could upset/offend more than a handful of people, but likewise also get a lot of people to nut.
I have a feeling I know the answer, but would using this word in the throes of amazing, mind-melting sex, as opposed to actually hating the character, break the content rule? The rule in question is

• Works that promote or glorify hate, intolerance, or violence towards any person or group.

Please note; I am not a racist. There is no racist intention in using this word, it's simply for the writing of the character.

Have you tried searching for that word in existing stories? That's often the fastest and most reliable way to answer this kind of question, unless it's something so obscure that nobody else has already tried submitting it.

 

[WildCard001]

Have you tried searching for that word in existing stories? That's often the fastest and most reliable way to answer this kind of question, unless it's something so obscure that nobody else has already tried submitting it.

That's not a bad idea. I'll have to search in the interracial tag, that'd give me the best chance to find out... Either that or any story mentioning BBC. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Bamagan]

Thanks for the response, I understand there's no flawless logic in declaring "I'm not X or Y", I just figured it would at the very least provide some padding, so to speak, instead of leaving it bare.

As for the use of the word itself, I'm not aiming for any kind of verbal abuse, or abuse of any kind, instead, merely a kind of call and response. "You like it, huh? Tell me!" "I love it! I love -blahblahblah-"

Well, again, some readers will interpret the use of slurs as abusive regardless. Just wanted to point out that you should not be shocked if people don't believe you.

I don't think we can tell you with confidence if it will get rejected based on the inclusion of a slur, though. Will it automatically get kicked back for including it? Highly unlikely. Does it increase the odds of rejection? Probably, since the review process likely includes a keyword search for problematic language that might flag it for closer inspection, although quantifying that increased likelihood is not feasible. The key is whether or not your story could be reasonably construed as 'promoting or glorifying' bigoted behavior, and that's not something we can truly answer just by knowing it has someone using a slur.

 

[WildCard001]

Well, again, some readers will interpret the use of slurs as abusive regardless. Just wanted to point out that you should not be shocked if people don't believe you.

I don't think we can tell you with confidence if it will get rejected based on the inclusion of a slur, though. Will it automatically get kicked back for including it? Highly unlikely. Does it increase the odds of rejection? Probably, since the review process likely includes a keyword search for problematic language that might flag it for closer inspection, although quantifying that increased likelihood is not feasible. The key is whether or not your story could be reasonably construed as 'promoting or glorifying' bigoted behavior, and that's not something we can truly answer just by knowing it has someone using a slur.

All very good points... safest bet is to simply not sure the slur, which might even be better than if I did.

 

[OffNSFW]

If it's a word that doesn't apply to you, even if it's permitted, it's usually best not to use it. Sometimes it couldn't hurt for people in dominant social groups (e.g. men, white people, the straights) to acknowledge that some things aren't theirs to use.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I have a feeling I know the answer, but would using this word in the throes of amazing, mind-melting sex, as opposed to actually hating the character, break the content rule?

Whenever I see someone start a thread like this, asking a question but saying they think they know the answer, my response is: trust your instincts, you already know the answer.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If it's a word that doesn't apply to you, even if it's permitted, it's usually best not to use it. Sometimes it couldn't hurt for people in dominant social groups (e.g. men, white people, the straights) to acknowledge that some things aren't theirs to use.

You should tell the story that you are compelled to tell and use the language that you feel most strongly belongs in it. Your personal background does not matter. If it breaks the rules or is rejected here, then respect that and post it somewhere else.

 

[OffNSFW]

You should tell the story that you are compelled to tell and use the language that you feel most strongly belongs in it. Your personal background does not matter. If it breaks the rules or is rejected here, then respect that and post it somewhere else.

Your personal background absolutely matters. If you're a hetero author and you're contemplating using the f-slur, or a white author and you're contemplating dropping the n-bomb, you need to have that soul-searching conversation about why it's so important to you to use that particular word.

None of us gets to pretend we don't know what these words mean or why it's taboo for some of us to use them. We are compelled as artists to write. We are also compelled as grown-ass adults to be self-aware and responsible for ourselves.

But I think the OP knows that, or this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Your personal background absolutely matters. If you're a hetero author and you're contemplating using the f-slur, or a white author and you're contemplating dropping the n-bomb, you need to have that soul-searching conversation about why it's so important to you to use that particular word.

None of us gets to pretend we don't know what these words mean or why it's taboo for some of us to use them. We are compelled as artists to write. We are also compelled as grown-ass adults to be self-aware and responsible for ourselves.

But I think the OP knows that, or this thread wouldn't exist.

I totally agree that you need to think about these words and why you may or may not need them in your story, but your own background does not matter. The story is the story whoever tells it. That does not change anything.

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

So, I had a story idea in my head, including futanari on female and interracial. Thing is, I want to include... a certain word (I'm not gonna say it just to be safe) that could upset/offend more than a handful of people, but likewise also get a lot of people to nut.
I have a feeling I know the answer, but would using this word in the throes of amazing, mind-melting sex, as opposed to actually hating the character, break the content rule? The rule in question is

• Works that promote or glorify hate, intolerance, or violence towards any person or group.

Please note; I am not a racist. There is no racist intention in using this word, it's simply for the writing of the character.

I once published a NC/R story called "Yellow Fever" in which the White rapist uses a bunch of sexually charged racial epithets against his Asian victim while having his way with her. He does the same thing again in part 2, and tries to again in part 3 out of powerless anger when his victim gets her own back. You won't know for certain until you submit your story, but I think the rule against promoting or glorifying hate and intolerance is intended for non-fiction screeds rather than fictional stories.

 

[ElectricBlue]

You won't know for certain until you submit your story, but I think the rule against promoting or glorifying hate and intolerance is intended for non-fiction screeds rather than fictional stories.

I'm not sure the rule makes that distinction - fiction can glorify or promote any ideology just as much as non-fiction can.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

The rules are against specific content, but as demonstrated thousands of times in stories getting published with "banned" content, the context in which the content is applied carries significant weight, not only in acceptance by Laurel, but also by the readers.

 

[SimonDoom]

I did a search in the Interracial category for stories that contain the N-word in the text or titles. I got 871 responses. I then sorted them by date and determined that plenty of them are recent.

Your story shouldn't get rejected just because of its use of a word. I doubt that would happen.

 

[Kasumi_Lee]

fiction can glorify or promote any ideology just as much as non-fiction can.

I'm not saying it can't, but I can say that the story I was referring to has a character who spouts racist dirty talk and the story was approved by Laurel. Maybe that means that as long as any racist characters are obviously bad guys, then it's not "glorifying" or "promoting" hate, but at a minimum the rule does NOT apply to the mere presence of racist dialogue put into the mouth of a character.

 

[SimonDoom]

Your personal background absolutely matters. If you're a hetero author and you're contemplating using the f-slur, or a white author and you're contemplating dropping the n-bomb, you need to have that soul-searching conversation about why it's so important to you to use that particular word.

I realize this is a popular way of thinking these days, but I completely disagree with it. Artists should not be constrained in expressing themselves by their skin color, gender, ethnicity, or background. Artists/writers of all backgrounds should be mindful of why they choose certain words, but nobody should feel obligated to walk on eggshells because of facts of their birth over which they have no control. I think this is a deeply regressive way of thinking.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

This is a pretty frequent question - and one which should indeed be asked by any writer planning on moving beyond Dick-and-Jane.

The sad reality is that hateful words, thoughts and behaviour are part of the human experience. One cannot write about certain settings without them being a factor. Indeed, how could one write a story set in, say, Civil Rights Marches 1960s USA without them being mentioned?

I take the site’s ban as being one barring the unnecessary, supportive or gratuitous use or mention of such.

As to one’s own personal identity, this too is a common claim - only Blacks may write Black characters, only gays may write gay ones, only women may write female characters. I’m with Simon on this - the art is what matters, not the artist. The argument, by extension, applies equally to only men being permitted to write the male experience, limits women to only writing their own sex, and eventually winds up limiting each of us from publishing anything but our own diaries, and how foolish is that?

Be aware of the history of what you are writing, be aware of the pain it contains and dredge such up only when necessary. Be respectful, not silent.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Be aware of the history of what you are writing, be aware of the pain it contains and dredge such up only when necessary. Be respectful, not silent.

That's the key. So often in these threads it's writers wanting to stoke their own self-indulgence without a thought in the world for the rest, and often all that's revealed is their ignorance.

If there's a good reason to write the era, write the era, but make sure you know what you're on about first. Don't put a veil over history either, because that's worse.

 

[lovecraft68]

People in real life say and do ignorant things.
If you're portraying real people accurately you will have them say and do those things
In fact, if you're creating an antagonist, one of the best ways to do this is to have them use slurs or act in ways most people find offensive.

It's called realism, it's called not pretending everyone speaks like a woke snowflake.

Thomas Harris is not a cannibal serial killer, Bram Stoker was not a vampire etc...

Anyone who thinks someone is exactly what they right in every way are the ignorant ones

And behind any of those debates is one word "Censorship" and those who think the world should be shown as they pretend to want it to be (pretend, because these types usually are found to be projecting"

Answer is to write whatever and whoever and however you want. If people don't like it, tough shit, don't read it.

As for this site? Considering what they allow to come through in comments and some of the stories that are so awful in content you wonder if there really are any rules here, they should not be playing judge and jury on what's offensive.

Know what's funny (as in not funny?) all the people who say you can't say this, you can't say that, you can't write as this....have no issues with the age old fun trope of women being beaten and raped in all genres of fiction.

rape a woman...no worries, use a slur, you should be banned from writing.

Love it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Your personal background absolutely matters. If you're a hetero author and you're contemplating using the f-slur, or a white author and you're contemplating dropping the n-bomb, you need to have that soul-searching conversation about why it's so important to you to use that particular word.

None of us gets to pretend we don't know what these words mean or why it's taboo for some of us to use them. We are compelled as artists to write. We are also compelled as grown-ass adults to be self-aware and responsible for ourselves.

But I think the OP knows that, or this thread wouldn't exist.

Ironically its your opinion that is ignorant and preachy as a bonus.

Ask yourself why you feel you have the right to police what anyone puts in their stories.

The answer is because YOU think so. Good for you, but stay out of what others choose to write.

This conversation shows the stifling of creativity under the guise of perceived civility.

End of the day all this crap is about is the thought that a person that you will never meet might think "OMG that sounded racist, I bet they're racist!"

I've put things in stories I would never say-or do- in real life. I know I don't say those things, but you don't, and if you decided to judge me on that?

Guess what? I don't care. I know me, and that's what matters.

Cower in your box, some of us still believe in actual writing, not sanitized watered down pap and parroting disingenuous political narratives.

 

[Cagivagurl]

This whole thread is offensive...
Full stop.
Oh IMO...

Cagivagurl

 

[MyBareTorso]

I realize this is a popular way of thinking these days, but I completely disagree with it. Artists should not be constrained in expressing themselves by their skin color, gender, ethnicity, or background. Artists/writers of all backgrounds should be mindful of why they choose certain words, but nobody should feel obligated to walk on eggshells because of facts of their birth over which they have no control. I think this is a deeply regressive way of thinking.

There's also the whole "The Author Is Dead" school of thought and literary criticism, whereby the personal life/background of the author, filmmaker, artist etc is deemed irrelevant to the text itself...shit, that was a bit deep for me!

 

[SimonDoom]

There's also the whole "The Author Is Dead" school of thought and literary criticism, whereby the personal life/background of the author, filmmaker, artist etc is deemed irrelevant to the text itself...shit, that was a bit deep for me!

I don't believe in any particular school of literary interpretation to the exclusion of others. There are many ways of looking at a story. But I definitely believe that a text can be appreciated without any regard or consideration for the details of the author's background or identity.