Chrissie Hynde Under Fire

[Messier82]

Cat? One, check.
Pigeons? Several, check.
Begin

Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders

 

[stickygirl]

Cat? One, check.
Pigeons? Several, check.
Begin

Chrissie Hynde of The Pretenders

You mean cynical publicity route for her lame ass book?

 

[may_I_please]

You mean cynical publicity route for her lame ass book?

A shame that's the route she chose to go down

 

[Queersetti]

Interesting reading where "Andrew" and "Anthony" explain to a woman how she should feel about her own rape.

 

[Adre]

I love her music, her thoughts about her rape are not my concern.

 

[stickygirl]

Interesting reading where "Andrew" and "Anthony" explain to a woman how she should feel about her own rape.

Could you explain some more pls?

 

[Queersetti]

Could you explain some more pls?

Presuming that Andrew and Anthony are, as their names would imply, men, I don't believe they are capable of offering pertinent opinions on how Cjrissie Hynde feels about her own rape. In fact, I am hesitant to give weight to anyone's opinion as to how a victim "should" respond to their own experiences.

 

[stickygirl]

Presuming that Andrew and Anthony are, as their names would imply, men, I don't believe they are capable of offering pertinent opinions on how Cjrissie Hynde feels about her own rape. In fact, I am hesitant to give weight to anyone's opinion as to how a victim "should" respond to their own experiences.

Ah - my bad, sorry I'm with you now
Having read a few reports, aside from the original Sunday Times interview, I found myself comparing CH's comments to that face-palm by Germaine Greer, describing Julia Gillard as having a fat arse. IS it something to do with getting old that people come out with shit?

 

[Messier82]

Arguably the world's most famous feminist resorting to insults you would typically associate with a bloke? You would have to lean in the direction of 'she's lost the plot'.

Its not really relevant but GG was a big Frank Zappa fan and was a friend of his. She went up hugely in my estimation when I discovered this; she presented a Radio 4 music programme all about FZ.

Incidentally, Cameron's 'Calm down or was dear' didn't seem to impact on the UK's women voters, or was Milliband just that bad the Tory's couldn't lose even with an All-Eton-toffs-boys leadership.

 

[Messier82]

Q: When did 'respectable' mainstream news organizations decide that random tweets plucked from the twittersphere were significantly worthwhile to be included in a major news forum?
No wonder we're constantly questioning the future of the BBC.

 

[pollynova]

"If I'm walking around and I'm very modestly dressed and I'm keeping to myself and someone attacks me, then I'd say that's his fault. But if I'm being very lairy and putting it about and being provocative, then you are enticing someone who's already unhinged - don't do that. Come on! That's just common sense."

I very much agree with this. No one should go around raping people. But there are some that do. What she's trying to say is to be smart.

 

[stickygirl]

"If I'm walking .... That's just common sense.[/B]"

I very much agree with this. No one should go around raping people. But there are some that do. What she's trying to say is to be smart.

Of course we all know this - like "you should wrap up warm when it's cold". We don't need to be told the obvious, but we don't need a notable pop figure unpicking years of work with rape victims with a thoughtless, or in my opinion, cynically targeted statement.
I still can't believe she said it
"Dress up for the evening - expect to get raped and accept the blame when it happens"
OR
"Wear a burka and then it's their fault (because at least you made an effort not to get raped)"

I'm coming around to thinking maybe she has unresolved problems

 

[pollynova]

Of course we all know this - like "you should wrap up warm when it's cold". We don't need to be told the obvious, but we don't need a notable pop figure unpicking years of work with rape victims with a thoughtless, or in my opinion, cynically targeted statement.
I still can't believe she said it
"Dress up for the evening - expect to get raped and accept the blame when it happens"
OR
"Wear a burka and then it's their fault (because at least you made an effort not to get raped)"

I'm coming around to thinking maybe she has unresolved problems

Sometimes rape happens for no reason. You're just in the wrong place at the wrong time. But if you purposely put yourself in that wrong place and purposely do things to provoke, you're asking for trouble. Ideally, you should be able to wear a slutty outfit, go home with someone you don't know, and wake up in the morning with nothing more traumatic than a hangover. But we don't live in an ideal world.

If I went into a bad neighborhood and was walking around with a bunch of cash in my hand, waving it around and I got mugged, you'd call me an idiot. You'd say, "How could you be so stupid? What did you think was going to happen?" Should I be able to walk down the street and do whatever I please? Yep. Is the mugger 100% in the wrong? Yep. But that's not to say I don't bare some of the blame for what happened.

 

[Messier82]

True, but mugging (or more correctly, Robbery) is a far less devastating fate, and one which is not subject to so much debate.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

"If I'm walking around and I'm very modestly dressed and I'm keeping to myself and someone attacks me, then I'd say that's his fault. But if I'm being very lairy and putting it about and being provocative, then you are enticing someone who's already unhinged - don't do that. Come on! That's just common sense."

I very much agree with this. No one should go around raping people. But there are some that do. What she's trying to say is to be smart.

We cannot say that any more. We're not even supposed to think it.

Men are nothing more than raping machines.

She should be safe nude!

#KilgoreTrout

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Of course we all know this - like "you should wrap up warm when it's cold". We don't need to be told the obvious, but we don't need a notable pop figure unpicking years of work with rape victims with a thoughtless, or in my opinion, cynically targeted statement.
I still can't believe she said it
"Dress up for the evening - expect to get raped and accept the blame when it happens"
OR
"Wear a burka and then it's their fault (because at least you made an effort not to get raped)"

I'm coming around to thinking maybe she has unresolved problems

Exactly! Bingo! *spit*

#Triggers

 

[pollynova]

True, but mugging (or more correctly, Robbery) is a far less devastating fate, and one which is not subject to so much debate.

You can't say one thing is more "devastating" than another. It all depends on the person and the situation.

 

[pollynova]

Men are nothing more than raping machines.

Men can be raped too.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Men can be raped too.

There is that...

 

[Messier82]

You can't say one thing is more "devastating" than another. It all depends on the person and the situation.

I believe I can say that with a great deal of confidence, and I'm confident most people will agree. How many people would prefer to be raped rather than having their wallet/purse stolen? None I've ever met.

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of (UK) law leads me to be very confident that our system ranks sexual assault on a person as a far more serious offence than theft.

Property, including money, can be replaced. The psychological effects of a sexual assault will continue for a very long time.

 

[stickygirl]

Sometimes rape happens for no reason... But that's not to say I don't bare some of the blame for what happened.

Yes, but irresponsibility does not equal blame. Hynde describes herself as being naive at the time of her attack but I strongly disagree that she was to blame, as she herself has said.

Men can be raped too.

That always gets a mention

I believe I can say that with a great deal of confidence, and I'm confident most people will agree. How many people would prefer to be raped rather than having their wallet/purse stolen? None I've ever met.

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of (UK) law leads me to be very confident that our system ranks sexual assault on a person as a far more serious offence than theft.

It depends what you're stealing - I'm not convinced about that in the UK. Besides, it gets into the conviction rate for accused and that's a whole other can of worms.

 

[Messier82]

It depends what you're stealing - I'm not convinced about that in the UK. Besides, it gets into the conviction rate for accused and that's a whole other can of worms.

I understand what you're getting at, our less than perfect legal system. It depends on who is being stolen from and other circumstances, eg the London riots where people got serious Porridge for next to nothing.


But my original premise was comparing the effects of being mugged (ie wallet or purse or other personal property stolen with the threat, or actual use, of force) as compared with rape (non-consensual penetration, with the threat of, or actual use of force, or other incapacitating actions eg drugs).

More pragmatically, I'm about to leave the house, if I had to suffer one of these two crimes, which one would harm me most?

 

[Pookie]

I believe the reaction to Chrissie Hynde is mainly rooted in the history of lawyers for rapists who have tried to use the way a woman dressed, acted, etc. as a defense, often successfully. Basically, they placed the blame on the woman as a means to escape responsibility for what they did. There is no legitimate excuse to rape someone.

Is Chrissie wrong in what she believes? I don't think so. She recognizes she put herself in a position where she was more susceptible to being raped. She recognizes that their are unhinged people out there. And she is right. That is no excuse to let the rapist off the hook though, but that is what is prompting the negative reaction to what she said. It's a reaction to prevent turning back the clock, so to speak.

Chrissie basically admits that what she did wasn't very bright. And it wasn't. Hopefully girls listen and heed Chrissie's advice. The rapists are no less guilty for what they did though.

 

[stickygirl]

It goes without saying that we all have a responsibility to act sensibly, because society isn't perfect and sure, I agree with her, right up to the bit where she mentions blame. She has every right to blame herself if she chooses to, but I don't think the way she qualifies is at all correct. What she has said is 'if you wear slutty clothes you will be to blame if you get raped' and that is totally wrong. That might be the sound advice your parents told you before you stepped outside, but it isn't how blame is ascribed.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Not even contributory negligence?

If a dude is texting and walking and walks in front of a bus, is he not part of the blame?

Why is rape such a unique theft? Because it makes good wedge politics? Because it gives a special status to a group as unassailable victims?