Chinese fucktards want World War III

[Songcatcher]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1380715,00.html

 

[Guest]

couldnt even make it through the entire article, it had me so very sad.
that anyone could think war is the only solution to anything, saddens me.
im glad you posted this.

 

[thebullet]

First one should be aware that the Chinese have a real grievance. The Japanese were barbaric in their treatment of China in the 1930's.

I read a book about it - whose name escapes me at the moment - and the things the Japanese did were truly horrendous, killing the men, raping the women (lots and lots and lots of rapes), starvation, executions, torture, etc.

So now it's 70 years later and the Chinese still hold a grudge. But now that things are opening up in China (financially, that is) they may have the means to do something about it.

I am in no way condoning the concept of a war between China and Japan. But Japan may be forced to make a sincere and financially acceptable apology before this thing blows over.

 

[scheherazade_79]

Thanks for this thread. I had no idea stuff like this was going on in the Far East. I can't understand why the Japs don't just apologise. It would take just a couple of minutes, very little effort, and would make the world of difference to relations with China.

I think what's even more worried is that the anti-Japanese feeling seems to be encouraged by the State. This part of the article I found particularly unsettling -

We have grown up in a fast-developing country, but even though our country gets stronger and stronger, we have not been able to shed the humiliations of history and the fact that our persecutor has never admitted his crimes," says the bespectacled journalist.

Does it remind anyone else of Germany in the run-up to the Nazi seizure of power?

 

[Songcatcher]

The bullet: please read the article first.

China vs Japan (The USA) is not a good prospect. Also, please remember that between China and Japan are the two Koreas. Just below China is Pakistan/India. Above it, Russia.

s79, it looks like the Cold War II is coming right up.

 

[matriarch]

Thanks for this thread. I had no idea stuff like this was going on in the Far East. I can't understand why the Japs don't just apologise. It would take just a couple of minutes, very little effort, and would make the world of difference to relations with China.

I think what's even more worried is that the anti-Japanese feeling seems to be encouraged by the State. This part of the article I found particularly unsettling -





Does it remind anyone else of Germany in the run-up to the Nazi seizure of power?

Apologising, to a culture like the Japanese, is a complete anathema. That was what took them so long to surrender at the end of the war. Apology is humiliating, to them personally and to national pride.

 

[scheherazade_79]

I have a solution - let's replace all the male world leaders and army generals with females. I wonder how many wars, either hot or cold, we'd have then...

 

[scheherazade_79]

Apologising, to a culture like the Japanese, is a complete anathema. That was what took them so long to surrender at the end of the war. Apology is humiliating, to them personally and to national pride.

Can't they just pretend and say it without really meaning it?

 

[Guest]

Can't they just pretend and say it without really meaning it?

Oh yes, they do that all the time. I know, first hand. Not spelling out how.

 

[thebullet]

Songcatcher wrote:
The bullet: please read the article first.

No reason to be insulting, Songcatcher. Of course I read the article first. What made you think I didn't?

I merely said that the Chinese have a legitimate grievance which must be redressed before things get better. I certainly don't think those grievences are worth going to war over, but I'm not the one making decisions over there.

I am aware that the Japanese have given financial aide to China, but they have NEVER acknowledged cupability for their war crimes.

 

[rgraham666]

I'm remembering an essay I read many years ago about how the world is divided into 'rememberers' and 'forgetters'.

The 'rememberers' on one side go "You did this to us 50 years ago, so we hate you."

The 'rememberers' on the other go, "Well, you did this to us 100 years ago, so we were justified."

Then the first side says, "But you weren't because you did something horrible to us 150 years ago."

And it goes around and around until the whole thing blows up.

The 'forgetters' forget about all that and just get on with their lives.

I'm also noting how much the Chinese in this resemble a lot of people in the West. In spite of very good lives, it's not enough. It makes them angry and they take their anger out on somebody unrelated to their neurosis.

 

[Songcatcher]

I'm remembering an essay I read many years ago about how the world is divided into 'rememberers' and 'forgetters'.

'Botherers' & 'Lazybums'

 

[rgraham666]

The 'Lazybums' are responsible for all the progress in the world.

"There's got to be an easier way to do this," is the statement that changes things.

 

[Liar]

I have a solution - let's replace all the male world leaders and army generals with females. I wonder how many wars, either hot or cold, we'd have then...

Because they'd be too busy doing their hair?

Serioulsy, do you really think that would make a difference? Power corruts, yannow.

However, if all the world leaders were replaces with clones of me... There's be no wars. But heck, there would be sod all of other stuff either. I could probably procrastinate civilisation out of existance.

 

[oggbashan]

This year one of our local characters died.

He had been a prisoner of war on the Burma Railway (Bridge on River Kwai stuff). He frequently visited Japan and talked to schools. He personally could forgive the Japanese but could not forget. If he forgot he felt that he was betraying his comrades who died building the railway.

At Hiroshima he was asked what he felt about the 'Peace Museum'. He replied: (My paraphrase) "It is very sad that people die in war yet nowhere in the museum can I find any reference to the fact that you (the Japanese) killed many people in SE Asia, nor that you started the war. You (the Japanese) expect the Allies to apologise for Hiroshima and Nagasaki yet you cannot apologise for the war you started. Until you do that, how can you expect to be forgiven?"

His remarks shocked his hosts. He would not and could not retract. He did not blame the current generation. He objected to the bowdlerisation of history taught in Japanese schools.

Og

 

[Songcatcher]

Originally posted by r666
"There's got to be an easier way to do this," is the statement that changes things.

I don't cyber.

There can be no 'progress' except in scientific knowledge. Everything else is a change for better or worse.

Originally posted by Liar
Power corrupts, yannow.

No. I am 'pure', literally. But, yes: you could probably procrastinate me out of existance.

And no. I'm not a baboon.

 

[R. Richard]

In the far east 'face' is everything. If a person or nation apologises for some action, they have lost face. Losing face is not for a week or a year, it is for a lifetime. The lifetime of an individual is measured in decades. A nation need never die.

I fear many of you are trying to understand and/or judge eastern culture by the values of your own culture(s).

JMHO.

 

[amicus]

"...Justin McCurry in Tokyo and Jonathan Watts in Beijing
Thursday December 30, 2004
The Guardian ..."

~~~~~~~~~~~

Perhaps this subject needs the eyes of an old well read cynic such as Amicus....

As many know, the Guardian is a left wing, socialist rag seemingly dedicated to fomenting disruption in world affairs as payback for the now exinct Comintern, international communism.

It may seem a far stretch of the imagination to recognize socialist intellectuals worldwide for what they are, but ideologies die hard and communism did not have and will not have and easy death.

The utopian concept of 'pure socialism' still lives in Scandanavian Europe as the low countries can be described as basically socialist in nature.

The Guardian continues to fan the fire of a phoenix like arising of a new 'international communist organization' that will bind together the disparate groups around the world.

There is another more insidious effort underway, that of the 'revisionist historians and historiographers' that live in the past and harbour old grudges. They are entrenched in the Universities and media outlets world wide and continue to foment disruption over past deeds of nations and peoples.

They still hate the British for India and China excursions of colonialism. They hate the Americans for the 'native americans' and the African slaves. It goes without saying that this includes the Irish and the French.

If you want a key to understanding the Guardian article, you need look only as far as a rabid socialist attempt to combat the growth of free market economies in China, Korea, Japan and Taiwan. The utopian socialists cannot bear the thought that Capitalism is indeed sweeping the world, bringing free markets and democracy to even the darkest corners.

Is there still some resentment and hatred between the former combatants of the World Wars and the history of expansionism and colonialism?

Answer that question yourself and judge the severity as you view a truly diversified world.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Amicus had a computer failure and is on back-up for the moment, best wishes for the New Year to all.)

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by R. Richard
I fear many of you are trying to understand and/or judge eastern culture by the values of your own culture(s).

No feedback for you.

Originally posted by Amicus
Perhaps this subject needs the eyes of an old well read cynic such as Amicus....
No feedback for you either.

The utopian concept of 'pure socialism' still lives in Scandanavian Europe as the low countries can be described as basically socialist in nature.

The Guardian continues to fan the fire of a phoenix

They are entrenched in the Universities and media outlets world wide

The utopian socialists cannot bear the thought that Corporate Capitalism is indeed sweeping the world, bringing free markets and non-democracy to even the darkest corners.

 

[EnglishMuffin]

cold war ii.
brrr

it reminds me of the 80s too much. bad time all around, what with aids campaign and all. like, those scary tv comercials making me think sex causes death or something. you know, rather put off by it.

oh, sorry. get back to politics, or somming. sheesh. sorry to be thinking about having sex. i missed out alot in the 80s.

 

[fogbank]

There was a situation a year or so ago where a tour-planner from Japan had arranged for something like 200 Japanese businessmen to travel to China and have a huge orgy with Chinese prostitutes in some hotel. I'm a little sketchy on the details, but I believe it was on the anniversary of the Japanese invasion of China. It's this sort of attitude that makes the Chinese hate Japanese. Over half a century later, Japan still treats China like its bitch. Of course, the attitudes of a small group of elite businessmen likely don't reflect the opinions of all Japanese. Perhaps not even the majority of Japanese, just as it's difficult to say how widespread the militaristic beliefs mentioned in the article extend in China.

edit: here's a link to the above incident: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/30/content_268994.htm

 

[TheEarl]

Japan has never apologised for the mistreatment of Western POWs either. In the view of the Japanese culture, anyone who surrendered was considered beneath contempt and therefore not deserving of basic human rights. My grandfather was interned in Changi and I know that my father hated it when I showed an interest in learning Japanese and going to Japan. They didn't kill my grandfather, but the tortures they inflicted on him caused his death 45 years later.

However, this has to be understood from the Japanese point of view. The Emperor of Japan is the 'Son of Heaven,' a direct descendent of the god Amaritsu, who formed Japan to lie beneath the heavens. He is semi-divine and thus never wrong. Any decision he makes is the correct one. Therefore the Japanese culture will never permit them to apologise, as this would mean admitting that Emperor Hirohito was wrong.

Imagine asking Catholics to apologise for the Spanish Inquisition and tell all Protestants that the Pope got this one wrong and may not actually have had a direct line from God.

The Earl

 

[Couture]

There was a situation a year or so ago where a tour-planner from Japan had arranged for something like 200 Japanese businessmen to travel to China and have a huge orgy with Chinese prostitutes in some hotel. I'm a little sketchy on the details, but I believe it was on the anniversary of the Japanese invasion of China. It's this sort of attitude that makes the Chinese hate Japanese. Over half a century later, Japan still treats China like its bitch. Of course, the attitudes of a small group of elite businessmen likely don't reflect the opinions of all Japanese. Perhaps not even the majority of Japanese, just as it's difficult to say how widespread the militaristic beliefs mentioned in the article extend in China.

edit: here's a link to the above incident: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/30/content_268994.htm

Just wait till the free press get's a hold of this! They'll have a field day.

 

[Songcatcher]

There was a situation a year or so ago where a tour-planner from Japan had arranged for something like 200 Japanese businessmen to travel to China and have a huge orgy with Chinese prostitutes in some hotel. I'm a little sketchy on the details, but I believe it was on the anniversary of the Japanese invasion of China. It's this sort of attitude that makes the Chinese hate Japanese. Over half a century later, Japan still treats China like its bitch. Of course, the attitudes of a small group of elite businessmen likely don't reflect the opinions of all Japanese. Perhaps not even the majority of Japanese, just as it's difficult to say how widespread the militaristic beliefs mentioned in the article extend in China.

edit: here's a link to the above incident: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/en/doc/2003-09/30/content_268994.htm

bump

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

Originally posted by scheherazade_79
I have a solution - let's replace all the male world leaders and army generals with females. I wonder how many wars, either hot or cold, we'd have then...

We'd have nukes dropping left and right.