Child Pornography an Epidemic in Toronto

[Isabella Thorne]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ... i am so sickened ... so angry .....

yesterday an Ottawa man was arrested in Toronto man ... alleged to have stored 200,000 "horrendous" computer images and videos of tens of thousands of children (some as young as six months!!!)).

We're one of the <child pornography> centres in the world," said Toronto Police Staff Inspector Gary Ellis. "It's our hidden crime, it's our hidden shame."

jesus christ ... i hope they put him in prison for life ... and we've all heard what happens to child molesters in prison ....

fuck ... i am so damned pissed ... how can that monster have in any way hurt all those innocent children .... scarred them for life ... for what? for a few thrills ....

 

[thumbs2_ca]

I agree

We have that other ass hole fighting the judicial system for his right to possess crap like that.
It sickens me beyond description.

 

[Todd-'o'-Vision]

Re: I agree

We have that other ass hole fighting the judicial system for his right to possess crap like that.
It sickens me beyond description.

Its happening here in Fredericton New Brunswick as well growing like a bad weed

 

[JaymesBlond007]

It's sad to say, but child pornography is more of a problem than most people realize. Just be glad you're in a Country that has the sense enough to fight it. There are plenty of sick places in the world that just turn a blind eye, allowing the explotation of children through pornography and worse yet, prostitution.

 

[p_p_man]

I remember Belgium...

They're still recovering from the national trama...

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

"We're one of the <child pornography> centres in the world," said Toronto Police Staff Inspector Gary Ellis. "It's our hidden crime, it's our hidden shame."

So, what is it about Toronto that makes it a center for child pornography? Some laxity/loophole in the laws, or it is just where some scum decided to congregate?

 

[Isabella Thorne]

i have no idea why, ShyGuy ... it was a shock to me ....

here is the full story from the Toronto Globe and Mail:

Child pornography an 'epidemic,' police say

By COLIN FREEZE

Tuesday, January 22, 2002 – Print Edition

Toronto is an international hub for the manufacture and circulation of child pornography, police said yesterday in announcing they had made one arrest and are investigating another 200 suspects.

"I would call child pornography an epidemic in the city of Toronto. We're one of the centres in the world," said Toronto Police Staff Inspector Gary Ellis. "It's our hidden crime, it's our hidden shame."

The investigator made the remarks at a news conference where he and Police Chief Julian Fantino discussed the case of a Toronto man alleged to have stored 200,000 "horrendous" computer images and videos.

These images involved the sexual abuse of "tens of thousands of innocent children as young as six months old," Staff Insp. Ellis said.

Police took the opportunity to criticize the public's indifference to large amounts of pornography distributed internationally through the Internet. They also said Canada's justice system fails to crack down on offenders.

Toronto Police have announced three child-pornography arrests this month. Another 200 people in the city have been identified as possessing child-pornography, Staff Insp. Ellis said.

"They can expect they will be getting a visit," he said, adding that charges will follow if searches yield enough evidence.

Chief Fantino vowed to devote more resources to cracking down on child pornography. "We will come after them," he said. "We will come after you if you're involved in the same activity."

Whether child pornography is more pervasive in Toronto than elsewhere is open to debate. Toronto has "no more or less a problem than any other city," William Dworin, a U.S.-based child-pornography expert, said in an interview yesterday.

Globally the problem is "rampant," the retired Los Angeles detective said. Once local child-porn rings have yielded to globalized image-swapping and file sharing through use of the Internet. "Whatever jurisdiction it is, the problem is worldwide," Mr. Dworin said.

The arrest announced yesterday resulted from a tip by New Zealand censorship authorities. A New Zealand agent had been communicating with a Toronto man via an Internet instant-messaging service.

Blair Evans of Toronto was arrested on Friday. He is charged with making, possessing, importing and distributing child pornography.

Police would not provide any details on their allegation that Mr. Evans, a PhD scientist who worked as a consultant in Toronto, was involved in the making of pornography.

Mr. Evans, who made a court appearance yesterday, also faces a charge of breaching probation.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

i have no idea why, ShyGuy ... it was a shock to me ....

From the statements it sounds like hyperbole to get attention. That does not mean that there isn't a problem, or that I condone child pornography (I find it abhorent), but that I have heard these kind of statements before whenever some Pol/bureacrat wants to call attention to their pet project and get the public riled up about.

Not that the public shouldn't be riled up about child porn, but is Toronto really an "international hub", or do they just have a lot of child porn people because they are a big city. They said they have identified 200 people in the city that have "child porn". That is out of 2.5 million people - that is 0.008% of the total population. Seattle has a population of about 600,000 people, maybe 1 million in the greater metro area, and I would say that we could probably find 200 possessors of child porn here. Does that make us an "international hub" of child porn? Or is that about the average percentage for a metro area?

Having been involved with drug interdiction I recognize hype by law enforcement when I hear it. It gets them votes, it gets them money and it gets them power. It disturbs me that they said "Police took the opportunity to criticize the public's indifference to large amounts of pornography distributed internationally through the Internet."

This statement did not differentiate between the kind of porn we have here on Lit. and the kind of porn they arrested the man for. There is a world of difference, but getting the public riled up in general could result in bans of and arrests for possession of any porn at all.

LE officials have a way of inflating numbers; whenever a drug bust was made, our bosses would always use the highest street price they could for the drugs, that way they could say we made a "million dollar bust" when in fact we captured about $50k worth of drugs. That way, they could say they were making "major" drug busts and putting a "real dent" into the traffic, when in fact they were stumbling across about 2-5 percent of the traffic at best (they are doing better now, but still not really over 10%).

 

[sch00lteacher]

Piers Anthony

I know I probably just killed his name. The author. The guy who writes about ten paperbacks a month it seems. I do love the guy. I really like the Xanth series.

Anyhow there is a book entitled Firefly or something of that nature. Again I am not sure.

Anyhow, in this book he gives a totally dead on description of a child having sex with an adult. It blew me away. The same thing in pictures whould have gotten him thrown in jail so fast....

Does anyone out there know which book I am talking about? Have you read it too?

I just don't get child porn. I thank God that I do not have this fetish. I don't feel very sorry for those that do.

Child porn is one of the big reasons I stay away from the news groups. People love to sneak that shit in on you.

Anyhow. Has anyone else read the book I mentioned? I'd like your thoughts. I mean I almost went in to the library where I got it and asked them to put it with there adult books. Anyone can check it out. I would not want my son to read this. He is a big Anthony fan as well.

 

[Avery_Chisholm]

there's something extremely FUCKED UP

about OUR judical system who would give a mother who KILLED her 2 kids and put them in the trunk 2 yrs less a day

 

[Isabella Thorne]

It disturbs me that they said "Police took the opportunity to criticize the public's indifference to large amounts of pornography distributed internationally through the Internet."

This statement did not differentiate between the kind of porn we have here on Lit. and the kind of porn they arrested the man for. There is a world of difference, but getting the public riled up in general could result in bans of and arrests for possession of any porn at all.

well that is very observant of you Guy ... now that you point that out ... yes i agree ....

and thank you for calming me down the way you did ... i appreciate that very much ... i tend to freak out and get so angry up about stuff like that ... and i know the media counts on people like me to create these "media frenzies" ... it sells their papers ...

hey schoolteacher ... no i never heard of a book like Firefly but you know what? i believe there is a man on trial in B.C. for WRITING <no pictures> about having sex with boys ... and it was his personal writing too ... i am going to try to dig out that story for you too ... so how could a book like Firefly ever be published in North America????!!!! yikes ...

 

[heterotic]

Good points, shy guy. Hopefully it doesn't lead to some kind of worldwide crackdown on every type of pornography, in general.

I haven't read that specific book, but Piers Anthony is a well-known author. I know celebrities can tend to get away with more, but that is still kind of weird.

 

[Isabella Thorne]

Found it ....

From Toronto Globe and Mail:

Some of man's sexual writings had artistic merit, court told

By ROBERT MATAS

Wednesday, January 23, 2002 – Page A9


VANCOUVER -- Some sexually explicit stories involving adults and young boys written by Vancouver resident Robin Sharpe had artistic merit although other material he wrote was believed to be illegal pornography, the B.C. Supreme Court was told yesterday.

The police seized several pages of his written work on April 10, 1995, and May, 13, 1996.

After reviewing the material, a Crown prosecutor approved charges against Mr. Sharpe for possession of a collection of stories, called Boy Abuse and a novel called Stand By America, Vancouver Detective Noreen Waters said during her second day of testimony.

Police had also recommended pornography-related charges against Mr. Sharpe for stories called Peter's Path and Life on the Corner, Det. Waters said.

But the prosecutor decided the two stories had artistic merit and did not proceed with criminal charges for possessing that material, she said.

Mr. Sharpe faces two charges of possession of pornography and two charges of possessing pornography for the purpose of distribution.

Det. Waters told the court police also found numerous photos of nude prepubescent and pubescent boys in sexual poses or involved in sexual activities.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Piers Anthony

Anyhow, in this book he gives a totally dead on description of a child having sex with an adult. It blew me away. The same thing in pictures whould have gotten him thrown in jail so fast....

I don't know about "Firefly", having never read it, but in the "Bio of a Space Tyrant" series he has some rape/abuse etc., and the hero of the series later goes on to have sex with a mentally retarded woman whose mental age probably did not allow her to make informed consent (there was some discussion of this in the book). It has been years and years since I have read the books, but I do not recall it being explicit.

So, it doesn't surprise me that Anthony would write something like that. Stephen Donaldson ("Thomas Covenant - Chronicles of the Unbeliever")is another one that does not shy away from rape in his scifi/fantasy books, especially in his scifi where the rapes were very violent and prolonged, but I don't believe he wrote any child abuse into it.

Isabella,

The incident of the Vancouver man is disturbing in the way they handled it; they found some "artistic merit" in some of his stories. This is the same kind of community standard and artistic merit crap they judge other porn by. To me, either child porn stories should be illegal or not, and I am torn because I know they can do some harm (used to seduce children), but so can other types of porn and so can a Sears catalog for that matter.

There is child porn stories mixed in with regular porn stories out there on the web; asstr.org where a lot of stories are on an ftp site, has child porn mixed in with adult porn stories. When I download a number of stories I could easily mistakenly download some child porn and not know it (and have). If I then take my laptop across the border to visit friends in the Vancouver area, I am susceptible to arrest and imprisonment.

Even if preview a story to see if it is child porn, then reject downloading it because it is child porn, Internet Exploder makes temp copies of viewed files on my hard drive, and theoretically that file could exist and be found if I am unlucky enough to have the police search my computer before it cleans out its cache (which it isn't very good at doing - I usually do it manually when things slow way down).

Of course, in this instance, the guy had pictures of child porn, and clearly such pictures caused harm as some abused/molested child had to be the subject of the photos. So, why didn't they go after him for that? It seems to me that would have been easier.

Maybe they are laying the groundwork for going after people for the written word?

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Piers Anthony

Anyhow there is a book entitled Firefly or something of that nature. Again I am not sure.

Apparently it is out of print: Firefly

Reviewer: A reader from TX
this is the first novel of Piers Anthony's I've read. I liked the way the characters all came together. Its about "something" going around killing people, leaving only the bones and skin shell. With pheromones the creatures renders the victims helpless(horny) and death soon follows. About losers coming together. About sexual and physical abuse and the consequences of the abuse afterward. Plenty of Sex!

In the afterward Piers Anthony states that the book was banned by bookstores (they would not sell it) because of the content.


Why be so easily offended?, January 6, 1999
Reviewer: jesters_madness@hotmail.com from Olympia, WA
Piers Anthony's Firefly is an excellently written novel of horror, love, and yes, sex. That Piers writes so vividly seems to offend some people, but I believe that this is what makes him such a good writer. This book is a great read, but if you are a fan and you think vivid sex scenes involving a child might ruin that for you, skip it. No need to let this book ruin your opinion of him. As for the ending, I like it's non-traditional way of working out. But I don't want to ruin it.

 

[Jimi]

Re: Robin Sharpe

From Toronto Globe and Mail:

Some of man's sexual writings had artistic merit, court told

By ROBERT MATAS

Wednesday, January 23, 2002 – Page A9


VANCOUVER -- Some sexually explicit stories involving adults and young boys written by Vancouver resident Robin Sharpe had artistic merit although other material he wrote was believed to be illegal pornography, the B.C. Supreme Court was told yesterday.

ART! My cloaca! Seeing Robin Sharpe again on the tube last evening almost made me spew...

As a parent of a 13-year-old boy even more so!

This bastard should be sent South to Alabama, Mississippi or wherever the effects of his incarceration would fit his crimes...

I resent deeply that we pay for the likes of he, and Bernardo, almost in perpetuity, it appears.

Rant over - but being an adult lover of adult erotica, I resent untermensch like those two being allowed to live.

Of course, the alternative (as seen between 1933-1945) would be monstrous.

Jimi

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

so how could a book like Firefly ever be published in North America????!!!! yikes ...

You can ask the author; he will answer if you ask him nicely. A few years ago I was involved in a project that including online delivery of manuscripts, and I came across one book he was offering on Xlibris as an e-book.

So I asked him why he had chosen to publish that one book there and via his regular venue - the inference that since he was a well know author he should be able to get most anything published if he wished. His response (as I remember it, I still have his letter around here somewhere) was that he published that one book through XLibris because that was the only venue where he could get it published.

I notice that he has a number of his other books now listed there, but not Firefly.

If you do send him an email via the XLibris site, he may not answer via email; for some reason he would only answer via letter to me, but that was some years ago.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Damn it.

I wrote out a long message here and some how the board ate it. I had to debate with myself to see if I wanted to try again.

I got the book Firefly from a local library. I like Anthony, read most of his stuff. The story was good, give it a 7 out of 10.

The child molestation was a flashback it wasn't 'live'. Still, it was the most shocking thing I have ever read in a non 'adult' book. It really disturbed me.

What makes it worse is the fact that this is the first book I have ever thought about banning. Me, a history teacher, mister free speech, mister ACLU. It isn't so much I want to ban it as it is I want it to be put with other adult books in a special place.

My son reads everything put out by Anthony. He may have already read this for all I know. I hope not.

Anthony alwasys puts a little sexual innuendo into his books. One reason I like him. It is usually above most kids heads.

I don't want you to rush out and try and find this book to read the section I am talking about, if your doing it for the turn on. But if your doing it to be informed, be my guest. Then we can talk about it with another view point.

*shaking my head*

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: Damn it.

I don't want you to rush out and try and find this book to read the section I am talking about, if your doing it for the turn on. But if your doing it to be informed, be my guest. Then we can talk about it with another view point.

No thanks. Having read "Bio of a Space Tyrant" which had some rape in it, I can guess what it would be like, and I certainly wouldn't be turned on by it - so I think I will pass.

 

[Isabella Thorne]

I resent deeply that we pay for the likes of he, and Bernardo, almost in perpetuity, it appears.

well i think that Bernardo is truly Canada's secret shame ... i just wonder how many people know of him south of the border?

with the face of an angel, he kidnapped and raped young girls - held them hostage and finally murdered them .... with the help of his girlfriend, the she-devil Karla Holmolka ... they even murdered her younger sister <oops by accident while suffocating her with chloroform to knock her out so they could molest her> ....

it's sad when people like Bernardo change our views on the world ... because they do ... these stories almost weaken my spirit and fill me with distrust of society ...

i never thought so much horror so close to home was possible before Paul Bernardo ... and the details we read in the papers was stomach turning beyond belief ...

now that is not a "fetish" ... that is way beyond kink ... that is psychopathic sadiction ....

 

[Jimi]

Kritin French

well i think that Bernardo is truly Canada's secret shame ... i just wonder how many people know of him south of the border?

with the face of an angel, he kidnapped and raped young girls - held them hostage and finally murdered them .... with the help of his girlfriend, the she-devil Karla Holmolka ... they even murdered her younger sister <oops by accident while suffocating her with chloroform to knock her out so they could molest her> ....

it's sad when people like Bernardo change our views on the world ... because they do ... these stories almost weaken my spirit and fill me with distrust of society ...

i never thought so much horror so close to home was possible before Paul Bernardo ... and the details we read in the papers was stomach turning beyond belief ...

now that is not a "fetish" ... that is way beyond kink ... that is psychopathic sadiction ....

The fact that Homulka will be out of jail soon disgusts me - our neighbours to the South would have fried her ass - and rightly so, IMHO.

I have met Doug French, Kristin's dad - and I will never forget her face in the highschool picture... Especially as I drove right by the woods where she was found, unknowingly.
On my way home from work, they had my usual route cordoned off w/ yellow tape - the next day the press reported the finding of her body.

The fact that she fought the craven bastard even though her situation was hopeless has always impressed me...

Let's bury this one, please.

Jimi

 

[Guest]

Kiddy Hysteria

I'm not very happy that child pornography exists, and find it unfortunate that so many adults find their most passionate release in manipulating minors to please them sexually. But when people in an online forum like this feel it is necessary to thump their chests and decry the fact that Child Pornographers cannot be executed without trial, I wonder who they are trying to impress with the sincerity of their convictions. Any drooling imbecile can jump on the "I hate kiddie porn" bandwagon, and more often than not, an impassioned diatribe against abuse and exploitation conceals a mind that has spent a very, very long time considering the issue.

I think this ought to be said on behalf of Paul Bernardo: He never killed anyone until he became involved with Karla Homolka, and it was her fear of detection that lead to the deaths of their victims. Bernardo had gotten away with at least a half dozen rapes before he became involved with Karla, and it was entirely her stupidity and jealousy that drove the escalation to murder. OF COURSE she would let him drug and rape her little sister -- but only if she was dead thereafter, unable to bear witness to what had happened, and even less able to act as a rival for Paul's affections. Paul Bernardo was a garden variety pervert until his partnership with Homolka made him into a bona fide serial killer.

At this point, with more than fifty books under his belt, all of them among the worst genre fiction ever written in English, there is simply no penalty serious enough to punish Piers Anthony for his crimes against his readers. If the Earth were smashed to flinders by a rogue comet tomorrow, I would comfort myself with the thought that at least hacks like Anthony would be wiped out as well.

 

[Isabella Thorne]

Hey Joe ....

But when people in an online forum like this feel it is necessary to thump their chests and decry the fact that Child Pornographers cannot be executed without trial, I wonder who they are trying to impress with the sincerity of their convictions. Any drooling imbecile can jump on the "I hate kiddie porn" bandwagon, and more often than not, an impassioned diatribe against abuse and exploitation conceals a mind that has spent a very, very long time considering the issue.

<wiping away the drool from my idiot chin>
thumping my chest, Joe? geeez

you're doing a wee bit of chest-thumping there too, aren't you cheri?

i went back to read the posts ... did anyone really say Child Pornographers should be executed without trial???? did i miss something?

IMHO anyone who protests so strongly at an intelligent discussion about child pornographers conceals a mind that has spent a very, very long time considering the issue.

you bring up many good valid points ... points that i agree with ... but you started out attacking the posters who were brave enough to step forward and reveal their intimate and impassioned thoughts on the incidents ...

one day maybe i can be as perfect as you too ...

but in the meantime ... <wiping even more drool from my idiot chin> ....

I HATE KIDDIE PORN.
__________________________
Hey Joe
where are you going with that gun in your hand?

 

[tmuyo]

bio of a space tyrant was an attack on the views held by the public. it was amazingly good and is still my favorite series by anthony. he challenged people. each act that the main character hope hubris (c'mon, the name gives away a lot) was one that he was forced to grudgingly make. i recommend the series before people attck it. if you really read it and comprehend it, it is an awesome series. in fact, the library i had gotten the books from had little warning stickers they put on books that were known to have mature things going on between the covers of the books.

maybe suggest it to your library instead of ripping all authors a new one.

child pronography is bad. yes, we've understood this, but don't drag anyone and everyone into the fire... anthony is a family man. you understand this in every authors note he writes. the way he describes his family and his daughters is not one of a sexually malign way. infact, when he does cross the borders of society he usually leaves an explanation in the author's note.

if you pick up a book by any author and you sense something like that, then maybe you should read the book, cover to cover. it might mean something. maybe the book is about a character who was sexually abused in the past and is scarred by it. we, humans, read books of different places, times, and lives. lives that are not our own. we want to understand that which we have not experienced. i'm not saying to go into a police station, look for the names and addresses of the nearest convicted child sex offender and embrace him/her. what i'm saying is that with literature, usually authors are making a point. and it is not fair to attack authors who may have a descriptive seen in a book.

as for anthony's literature... just about everyone of his books has sexual nature or sexually matue things going on. and if there isn't, than there are HEAVY puns to let you know that it's in the words. so, to the p[erson who complained about not wanting her son to read anything sexually mature, AND lets her son read piers anthony, do you read the books he reads? and another thing, i began reading anthony's works when i was in 3rd grade, and yes i understood everything. look where i am now posting...the shock the horror, oh no it's a porn board! don't call the kettle black ma'am.

 

[tmuyo]

Re: Kiddy Hysteria

Originally posted by Joe Adcock (local lurker guest)[
I'm not very happy that child pornography exists, and find it unfortunate that so many adults find their most passionate release in manipulating minors to please them sexually. But when people in an online forum like this feel it is necessary to thump their chests and decry the fact that Child Pornographers cannot be executed without trial, I wonder who they are trying to impress with the sincerity of their convictions. Any drooling imbecile can jump on the "I hate kiddie porn" bandwagon, and more often than not, an impassioned diatribe against abuse and exploitation conceals a mind that has spent a very, very long time considering the issue.

*cough* *sputter* *hack* pussywon'tregister *hack* *sputter* *cough*