characterization vs initial plot - who knew?

[Javahead]

I submitted my first all-new story in years a couple of days ago - hopefully, it should go live sometime this weekend. And I'm partway into the follow-on.

All my earlier stories were shorts - one or at most two Literotica pages in length, centered on a single storyline and pretty much running on rails following the initial storyline I'd chosen. I might do a good or bad job in my handling of the story, but the plot and character details were all in place before I started writing.

To celebrate getting back in the saddle, I wanted to stretch a bit, and write something a little longer. Long enough that a detailed plot outline was a good idea. And, deliberately, I chose an over-the-top storyline.

But I'm amused to realize that either I like my characters too much or did too thorough a job of characterization. Because I've set the couple up to care about each other enough that to take the next step into kink they need not only the opportunity - but their partner's active encouragement. Which means more setup to establish that neither one acts out of character.

I think I'm beginning to learn what writers mean when they say "the character made me do this."

 

[NotWise]

I think I'm beginning to learn what writers mean when they say "the character made me do this."

That seems pretty common, and it's not always a good thing. I had such a crush on Penny in Watch Me! that she changed the story.

 

[ThisNameIsntTakenYet]

I agree with NotWise, it can get out of hand sometimes. However, congrats on reaching that new level of depth in your characters. I've often rewritten part of my outline or even scrapped a big chunk of writing because as I was writing and started to know the character better, suddenly things started to feel out of character for them. When you feel that, it's good to listen to it, it's lead me to some very interesting stories that would have never turned out the way they did if I had stuck to my initial plan.

 

[Javahead]

That seems pretty common, and it's not always a good thing. I had such a crush on Penny in Watch Me! that she changed the story.

Oh, yes. I think that the overall story will be better, but it's making me work harder now setting it up.

It's easy to plot: "woman goes wild to fulfill her fantasies with more-experienced husband's encouragement, they do wild things separately and together, they end up together and happy at the end."

But once you've established that they care enough about one another to worry about hurting their partner, they worry about health risks and legalities, and they try to keep from getting swept away by impulse . . . Well, you need to do more work to turn the nice girl next door into the Great Whore of Babylon. Especially since her husband isn't a stereotypical submissive cuckold type but very much an equal - and extremely protective - partner.

 

[yukonnights]

Oh, yes. I think that the overall story will be better, but it's making me work harder now setting it up.

It's easy to plot: "woman goes wild to fulfill her fantasies with more-experienced husband's encouragement, they do wild things separately and together, they end up together and happy at the end."

But once you've established that they care enough about one another to worry about hurting their partner, they worry about health risks and legalities, and they try to keep from getting swept away by impulse . . . Well, you need to do more work to turn the nice girl next door into the Great Whore of Babylon. Especially since her husband isn't a stereotypical submissive cuckold type but very much an equal - and extremely protective - partner.

In other words; You're writing something that more reflects real life. In my view, that's a good thing.

 

[MelissaBaby]

This is why, what I have done with my long series, is write the first chapter, than a rough draft of the ending. It locks in certain parameters.

So, you can't go wider, you have to go deeper.

 

[Javahead]

In other words; You're writing something that more reflects real life. In my view, that's a good thing.

Real life? I wouldn't go *that* far. Unless I've been more sheltered than I ever knew.

 

[yukonnights]

Real life? I wouldn't go *that* far. Unless I've been more sheltered than I ever knew.

Okay, I might have been being too optimistic Maybe more like real life...building up to the spicy parts But, unless the story is a farce, the spicy parts are probably possible for some folks who are less restricted in their sexual lives than the average. In other words; I think the 'spicy parts' need to be believable too. (Unless, it's an intentional decision to make them outlandish for a particular story.)

 

[Javahead]

Okay, I might have been being too optimistic Maybe more like real life...building up to the spicy parts But, unless the story is a farce, the spicy parts are probably possible for some folks who are less restricted in their sexual lives than the average. In other words; I think the 'spicy parts' need to be believable too. (Unless, it's an intentional decision to make them outlandish for a particular story.)

OK - with that caveat, I can agree. That sort of "real life" is what I'm shooting for - outrageous, but it-could-happen outrageous, not this-is-obviously-farce outrageous.

 

[Hypoxia]

How2Write v.3.14:

Brew a story stew: setting, some plot points, characters; then set the players loose and just transcribe their words and deeds. At any fork in the plot, take the least likely tine. Maybe visualize the final scene, an ending image, and prod your players in that direction. But characters rule in this model. They're the voices in our heads. Obey.

As for the Real Life thang: beware. I've a reality kink that makes me write as truly as possible... without fucking with the fantasies. So my people, places, and playthings are mostly real, but words and deeds are my own fault. I try to be plausible, not actual. Reality gets ugly.

 

[Javahead]

This is why, what I have done with my long series, is write the first chapter, than a rough draft of the ending. It locks in certain parameters.

So, you can't go wider, you have to go deeper.

I've actually done that - as a detailed outline, rather than end paragraphs, but I know what the bulk of the current installment is supposed to be. The problem is setting them up to jump into it.

Fortunately, a few throwaway lines in the first part gave me a hook to develop things (she expresses impossible wish, he hears from old & kinky friend who might be able to help if he asks, with assurance of his love & support she decides to try)

And once past the "will we do this" barrier, the characterization issue largely goes away, other than egging each other and mutual voyeurism.

 

[Javahead]

How2Write v.3.14:

Brew a story stew: setting, some plot points, characters; then set the players loose and just transcribe their words and deeds. At any fork in the plot, take the least likely tine. Maybe visualize the final scene, an ending image, and prod your players in that direction. But characters rule in this model. They're the voices in our heads. Obey.

As for the Real Life thang: beware. I've a reality kink that makes me write as truly as possible... without fucking with the fantasies. So my people, places, and playthings are mostly real, but words and deeds are my own fault. I try to be plausible, not actual. Reality gets ugly.

Yup. I've got that kink, too. Unless I'm writing something that's obviously over-the-top impossible, I've got this nagging urge to make it "believable." This isn't too hard with characters who are impulsive and don't think things through. But I'm a bit of a self-control freak, and if I don't watch myself my favorite characters are too. Even if Real Life is full of characters who *don't* think things through or show much sense of self-preservation.

 

[Hypoxia]

Yup. I've got that kink, too. Unless I'm writing something that's obviously over-the-top impossible, I've got this nagging urge to make it "believable." This isn't too hard with characters who are impulsive and don't think things through.

Much of my writing is straight reporting -- except what I invent or skew. My task is to make it plausible. I've mentioned that I don't read Incest but I write it as puzzle pieces. How can I make *myself*, let alone readers, believe this taboo-breaking stuff? Maybe don't try -- just deliver another stroker.

But I'm a bit of a self-control freak, and if I don't watch myself my favorite characters are too. Even if Real Life is full of characters who *don't* think things through or show much sense of self-preservation.

I tend to make my younger characters too mature mentally and emotionally. I was not so *together* when I was 18. But they may or may not think adequately about self-preservation. Hey, we're all immortal then! Unless we've suffered major physical trauma that reveals our mortality...

So I must work at writing players as undisciplined, dumber, crazier, without being too cartoonish. Unless the story is cartoonish. Then, anything goes.

 

[PennameWombat]

I submitted my first all-new story in years a couple of days ago - hopefully, it should go live sometime this weekend. And I'm partway into the follow-on.

Congrats!

<snip>
I think I'm beginning to learn what writers mean when they say "the character made me do this."

That happened in my Geek Pride story. The main character (think of her as a vampire, but not quite) was originally meant to be a rather amoral predator who 'dined' on geeks.

I worked out she was that, but she also turned out to be the biggest geek in the story. It ended up being more about her transition from that predator into the story's uber-geek followed by her acceptance into the midst of other geeks and her discovery of other ways to take care of her needs.

In that case I felt it made for a better story, lighter with dark elements rather than darkness with only a bit of light. My Nude Day story ended up being that darker story although much of it takes place in broad daylight. And there's one supporting character in there that I still feel bad about what happened to her, but it had to be someone in the firing line and it had to be someone the readers had come to know a bit. I considered changes but it wouldn't have been true to the overall story.

And, your tagline: "I can live without coffee. Those around me may not." That gets a 5 from me.

 

[Javahead]

Congrats!

That happened in my Geek Pride story. The main character (think of her as a vampire, but not quite) was originally meant to be a rather amoral predator who 'dined' on geeks.
...
And, your tagline: "I can live without coffee. Those around me may not." That gets a 5 from me.

Read your Geek Pride story & voted on it. Fun!

And my tagline is probably truer than I should admit in a public forum. I've been "Javahead" around the net for close to 30 years now - and there's a reason I adopted that nickname.

Which reminds me - I need to grind some beans to cold-brew for tomorrow's iced coffee.

 

[PennameWombat]

Read your Geek Pride story & voted on it. Fun!

A belated thank you!

And my tagline is probably truer than I should admit in a public forum. I've been "Javahead" around the net for close to 30 years now - and there's a reason I adopted that nickname.

Which reminds me - I need to grind some beans to cold-brew for tomorrow's iced coffee.

That's my history with variations on 'wombat'. But I'll not be grinding up any wombats

 

[Voboy]

Meeting my characters is the best part about writing. I just spawn them; they develop more or less on their own.

 

[Javahead]

A belated thank you!



That's my history with variations on 'wombat'. But I'll not be grinding up any wombats

Remember tunnel 17! (ob Digger reference)

 

[PennameWombat]

Remember tunnel 17! (ob Digger reference)

If only I could come up with a character as wonderful as Digger! Actually found Digger when I 'met' Ursula V on Twitter. Hey, another wombat!

Ursula V, so far as I know, doesn't post here

 

[Hypoxia]

Meeting my characters is the best part about writing. I just spawn them; they develop more or less on their own.

Just so. One favorite writing technique is to create a setting, a few plot points, and some players. Set them loose and transcribe their thoughts, words, and acts. It's easy.

It's also not a commercial approach. But we aren't paid here, so have fun.

 

[Hypoxia]

more on characters -- from 25 years ago

QUESTION:
Where do the characters go when I use the backspace key or delete on my PC?

ANSWER:
If you must know, the characters can go to different places, depending on whom you ask.

1) The Catholic's approach to characters:

The nice characters go to character heaven, where life is good. The characters are bathed in the light of happiness, all their troubles are soothed, and there's not a delete key, eraser, or white-out bottle in sight. Most of the nice characters are A's and I's with N's or T's. These are characters in love: monogamous on the page, together again after deletion. You'll see quite a few Q's too. They seem to feel particularly guilty for no good reason.

The naughty characters are punished for their sins. In case you were wondering what the difference between a nice character and a naughty character is, I'll tell you. Naughty characters are those involved in the creation of naughty words, such as "breast", "sex", "objectivity", and depending on usage, words such as "feminism", "reproductive freedom", "contraception", and "science". You may ask, and rightly so, why the characters are blamed for the words they assemble, when in fact they aare not responsible for their own configuration. If it truly felt guilty aboyt the word it was forming, it would rebel.

2) The Buddhist explanation:

If a character has lived rightly, and its karma is good, then after it has been deleted it will be reincarnated as a different, higher character. Those funny characters above the numbers on your keyboard will become numbers, numbers will become letters, lower-case letters will become upper-case, and the most righteous and good of all letters will become C's. Why C, you ask? Who knows, but it is! If a character's karma is not so good, then it will move down the above scale, ultimately becoming the lowest of characters, a space.

3) The 20th Century bitter cynical nihilist explanation:

Who cares? All characters are the same, swirling in a vast sea of meaningless nothingness. It doesn't really matter if they're on the page, deleted, undeleted, underlined, etc. It's all the same. More characters should delete themselves. (Nihilist character are easy to identify. They're usually pale and tragic, and they smoke a lot.)

4) The Mac user's explanation:

All the characters written on a PC and then deleted go straight to PC hell. If you're using a PC, you can probably see the deleted characters, because you're in PC hell also.

5) Stephen King's explanation:

Every time you hit the <Del> key you unleash a tiny monster inside the cursor, who tears the poor unsuspecting characters to shreds, drinks their blood, then eats them, bones and all. Hah, hah, hah!

6) Dave Barry's explanation:

The deleted characters are shipped to Battle Creek, Michigan, where they're made into Pop-Tart filling; this explains why Pop-Tarts are so flammable, while cheap imitations are not as flammable. I'm not making any of this up.

7) IBM's explanation:

The characters are not real. They exist only on the screen when they are needed, as concepts, so to delete them is merely to de-conceptualize them. Get a life.

8) PETA's explanation:

You've been DELETING them???? Can't you hear them SCREAMING??? Why don't you go CLUB some BABY SEALS while wearing a MINK, you pig!!!!!!

--Found on Usenet Oracle 11 Oct 1994.

 

[Hypoxia]

Obvious followup: Where do your characters go when you're done with-em?

 

[SimonDoom]

Obvious followup: Where do your characters go when you're done with-em?

I'm intimidated about saying, because my answer wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting or elaborate as yours.

 

[Rustyoznail]

Obvious followup: Where do your characters go when you're done with-em?

Gone to the beach for some Summer Luvin...

Russ

 

[HectorBidon]

Obvious followup: Where do your characters go when you're done with-em?

Back to their waitressing jobs. But I've got them on speed dial.