Chapters

[TheEarl]

I've just finished rewriting one of my first stories. It was originally published across two chapters, then I started rewriting it across three.

On the way through the rewrite, I began to think that it'd flow a lot better as one narrative. It is however 15 Word pages long (Size 10 font, Times New Roman), which is significantly longer than anything else I've done.

1) In your opinions, is it too long not to be broken into chapters?
2) Do you prefer reading things in chapters or one long narrative? Why?
3) In your opinions, what is the optimum number of chapters this story should be broken into?

The Earl

 

[Pookie]

How many words is in it? I have posted something with about that many pages before. If you don't have a natural breaking point, I would keep it all as one post.

 

[TheEarl]

9,265 words. There are several natural breaking points. I could break it into three sections quite easily. I kinda like it better as a whole though, not fragmented. But do people prefer things in bits?

The Earl

 

[English Lady]

well ok generally i love a good read! I LOVE good thick books BUT online reading is different. Staring at the monitior for too long makes me go dizzy so I tend not to read anything over 2/3 lit pages in length(what that is in number of words i don't know)
So if you think it's too long as one story, it probably is, break it down as you see fit. it's your work after all*S*

 

[peachykeen]

I like bits.

I don't always have the time or inclination to read something long online, and I'd rather have it served up to me in pieces than start it, log off, have to figure out where I left off when I come back, etc.

Just MO.

 

[karmadog]

One piece.

9,000 words isn't that long, and, personally, I don't read anything that has the word 'Chapter' in the title.

 

[SexyChele]

Generally, I will read something that is 2 Lit pages long online. If it is more than that, and I truly like the story, I simply print it off for reading off line. I actually prefer printing the stories off, as I can "collect" ones I like and read them when I'm nice and comfy. (I make certain I get the author's name/name of story to be able to go back and vote as well. Yeah, I know this "ups" the views, but it is what is convenient for me.)

I have read multiple chapters before, and enjoyed them. However, I will not read something that is "Chapter 1" and I cannot locate Chapter 2. I will either read the entire sequence or none at all. So I would suggest that if you are going to divide it up into chapters, that you submit all chapters at the same time.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

If we're talking about only 3 chapters, then I say split it up - I'd never finish a story that has more than 3 pages, it's just too friggin' long.

But I also don't like it when people write stories that has 35-78 chapters in them. I mean, come on, don't you have enough imagination to create different stories?

 

[Madame Manga]

But I also don't like it when people write stories that has 35-78 chapters in them. I mean, come on, don't you have enough imagination to create different stories?

Uh...like novels?

OK, OK; I realized quite a while ago that novels just don't fly here. The point gets hammered home over and over on the boards. Too bad for me. ;-)

MM

 

[Guest]

I've just finished rewriting one of my first stories. It was originally published across two chapters, then I started rewriting it across three.

On the way through the rewrite, I began to think that it'd flow a lot better as one narrative. It is however 15 Word pages long (Size 10 font, Times New Roman), which is significantly longer than anything else I've done.

1) In your opinions, is it too long not to be broken into chapters?
2) Do you prefer reading things in chapters or one long narrative? Why?
3) In your opinions, what is the optimum number of chapters this story should be broken into?

The Earl

_____

The rule of thumb is *about* seven standard pages in 10 point font (like yours) will yield *about* one Lit page worth of online story.

So, yours will be about two Lit pages in length. A comfortable size story for online reading at one sitting.

 

[Lovelynice]

I'm more into the shorter easier to read version that's split into smaller chapters. That way I don't lose my place so easily when I'm reading it, and get back to the same spot quickly again later.
I never find the time to read more than 4,000 words in one go, and sometimes even 2,000 words is long. But then again, if the story is well written, it is a lot easier to keep going and losing all track of time. Until my tummy starts telling me I'm hungry.

 

[ronde]

I have a few stories that are this length, and it doesn't seem to keep people from reading them. If the story makes them want to keep reading, they'll go to the second and even third page.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

15 word pages is just about 2 full lit pages, maybe the start of a 3rd.

I love 5 chapter stories...it allows for development without going on forever

 

[TheEarl]

Thank you one and all. Am going to follow my gut (and not my penis as most men do ) and post it all as one.

Thanks all,

The Earl

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Chapters

The rule of thumb is *about* seven standard pages in 10 point font (like yours) will yield *about* one Lit page worth of online story.

So, yours will be about two Lit pages in length. A comfortable size story for online reading at one sitting.

FWIW, each Lit page averages about 3,500 - 4000 words. (I use a nominal 3,700 to convert words to lit pages) That's a much better gauge than "Word Pages" because differences in Font, Font Size, Margins, and pargraph formatting make "Word Pages" vary too much to use as a guide.

9,265 words is going to convert to about 2.5 Lit Pages.

TE, there are advantages to submitting in sections and in submitting as one piece -- I prefer submitting in one piece becuse of the problems I have with finding all of the pieces of multi-part stories. Like many, I seldom read anything tagged "Chapt 1" until more chapters are posted -- far too many stories consist of only a "chapt 1" that is too short and end in a cliffhanger.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: Re: Chapters

FWIW, each Lit page averages about 3,500 - 4000 words. (I use a nominal 3,700 to convert words to lit pages) That's a much better gauge than "Word Pages" because differences in Font, Font Size, Margins, and pargraph formatting make "Word Pages" vary too much to use as a guide.

9,265 words is going to convert to about 2.5 Lit Pages.

TE, there are advantages to submitting in sections and in submitting as one piece -- I prefer submitting in one piece becuse of the problems I have with finding all of the pieces of multi-part stories. Like many, I seldom read anything tagged "Chapt 1" until more chapters are posted -- far too many stories consist of only a "chapt 1" that is too short and end in a cliffhanger.

_______

Sorry, WH, although a fair estimate, your "words" formula breaks down when a story has lots of small paragraphs, or dialog, or both, which will force will start a brand new line with <CR>, no matter the quantity of words in that line.

Example:



(1)"Hello," I said.
(2)
(3)"Oh, glad you called."
(4)
(5)"Yeah, me too," I thought.
(6)

With just these three lines, 12 words in all, I've "used" six lines of a page.

Editors/publishers use proportioning formulae based on the original manuscript length that account for these carriage returns, blank lines, etc.

This is not hard to do, and again, for "standard" manuscripts (single spaced) with 1" margins all around and a 10-point font, the formula of 7 manuscript pages for 1 Lit page will work fine for the average reader. Lit uses something close to 10-point Verdana (a standard font in WORD), so, if a writer is interested in approximating his story, he/she can convert the manuscript to Verdana 10-point and apply the ratio of 7:1.

Counting words is not as accurate.

 

[TheEarl]

FYI: Lit counts it as 3 pages. Just submitted it now.

The Earl

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Chapters

Sorry, WH, although a fair estimate, your "words" formula breaks down when a story has lots of small paragraphs, or dialog, or both, which will force will start a brand new line with <CR>, no matter the quantity of words in that line.
...
Editors/publishers use proportioning formulae based on the original manuscript length that account for these carriage returns, blank lines, etc.

This is not hard to do, and again, for "standard" manuscripts (single spaced) with 1" margins all around and a 10-point font, the formula of 7 manuscript pages for 1 Lit page will work fine for the average reader.
...
Counting words is not as accurate.

To be more precise, one lit page is 25kb -- regardless of the number of words or paragraph breaks, except for the last paragraph break on a page.

The script does NOT count words, it counts bytes to make one lit page a manageable download. Publisher's rules don't apply to script programmers.

Because the scripts count bytes to determine the web-page breaks the number of MS Word pages don't directly affect the break points here at Lit.

Because the scripts back-track to the last paragraph break to actually place the page seperation and allow for some over-run (similar to Word's Orphaned lines setting) the exact length of any given Lit page can't be predicted with any accuracy by any easy means -- which is why there is a 500 word range on my estimate.

With the overhead for banners, layout, and voting, the actual cutoff point is somewhere around 14 KB characters, not counting trailing spaces discarded by the HTML formatting.

As part of testing the scripts when before they went completely online, I did some detailed checking to determine how the stories were being split -- the only consistent match between MS Word and Lit pages was the word count -- Word counts "white space characters" while Lit ignores white space so that varies more than word count does. Number of paragraphs, as you point out, affects the number of pages in word, but NOT in Lit-pages.

My contention is very easy to test for yourself:

take any ten stories at random that have more than one page here at Lit.

Cut and paste only the first page of each into MS Word

Check the word count and character counts on each and check them against the average.

Note the pages required to display them in Word and check against the average.

You'll find that the word and character counts are very close to the average, but the Word Page count runs from 5 to 11 with an average of about 7.5 pages (in Verdana 10pt with 6.5" margins.)


(I did this for the first 100 multi-page stories to arrive at the 3500-4000 word estimate for a Lit-page.)

 

[KillerMuffin]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chapters

(I did this for the first 100 multi-page stories to arrive at the 3500-4000 word estimate for a Lit-page.)

Oh ouch, you brave man.

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chapters

Oh ouch, you brave man.

Not all that brave, It isn't like I actually read them at that point, just cut and pasted them into Word. I did go back and read a few, but not while I was gathering statistics.

 

[Guest]

OK, Weird Harold, I love a challenge

And this was good to help confirm some ratios that others can use or set up if they want to go through the procedure.

This is a calibration exersize, that is, it helps if you have your word process as MS WORD 2000, Verdana font, 1" margins on Top, Bottom, Left, and Right. So, for me, the following proportions would help gauge how the ratios work.

For those with different setups and word processors, you will have to go through a similar calibration procedure (if you're crazy enough or have the inclination like I did when WH challenged me).

The following stories were from the Most Read Stories page, and had more than one "Lit-page" of text. The first "Lit-page" was copied into my word processor, and the following "file properties" were gathered:


Tale of Forbidden Love
WORD Pages................... 7
WORD Lines.................... 322
Words............................. 3659
Characters w/spaces...... 19802
(Lit Pages.........................1)

Thank You Jeannie Ch. 01-06
WORD Pages................... 6
WORD Lines ....................314
Words............................. 3812
Characters w/spaces...... 20136
(Lit Pages.........................1)

A Mother-In-Law's Valentine
WORD Pages................... 7
WORD Lines ................... 362
Words............................. 3558
Characters w/spaces...... 20162
(Lit Pages.........................1)

Morning Light
WORD Pages................... 7
WORD Lines ................... 334
Words............................. 3689
Characters w/spaces...... 19970
(Lit Pages.........................1)

Built For One Thing Ch. 2
WORD Pages................... 8
WORD Lines ................... 373
Words............................. 3610
Characters w/spaces...... 19122
(Lit Pages.........................1)

Built For One Thing Ch. 1
WORD Pages................... 7
WORD Lines ................... 349
Words............................. 3576
Characters w/spaces...... 19499
(Lit Pages.........................1)

Truth or Treat
WORD Pages................... 6
WORD Lines ................... 307
Words............................. 3736
Characters w/spaces...... 20070
(Lit Pages.........................1)

Anne Marie's Mother Is…
WORD Pages................... 7
WORD Lines ................... 347
Words............................. 3516
Characters w/spaces...... 19205
(Lit Pages.........................1)

A Beloved Mom
WORD Pages................... 8
WORD Lines ................... 407
Words............................. 3704
Characters w/spaces...... 20370
(Lit Pages.........................1)

A Mother and Her Son
WORD Pages................... 7
WORD Lines ................... 370
Words............................. 3649
Characters w/spaces...... 19921
(Lit Pages.........................1)


10 Story Average
WORD Pages................... 7
WORD Lines ................... 349
Words............................. 3651
Characters w/spaces...... 19826
(Lit Pages.........................1)


I stand by my contention: as a rule of thumb, using a word processor of your choice, with 1" margins on the top, bottom, left and right, using Verdana 10-point font, 7 pages of text is equivalent to 1 Lit page of text.

Have a good Monday.

 

[hiddenself]

Closet/real statistician?

Not all that brave, It isn't like I actually read them at that point, just cut and pasted them into Word.

100 of them?!!!
Anyone paying ya?
You do live up to the first half of your username!

hs

 

[Weird Harold]

Tale of Forbidden Love
Words............................. 3659
Characters w/spaces...... 19802

Thank You Jeannie Ch. 01-06
Words............................. 3812
Characters w/spaces...... 20136

A Mother-In-Law's Valentine
Words............................. 3558
Characters w/spaces...... 20162

Morning Light
Words............................. 3689
Characters w/spaces...... 19970

Built For One Thing Ch. 2
Words............................. 3610
Characters w/spaces...... 19122

Built For One Thing Ch. 1
Words............................. 3576
Characters w/spaces...... 19499

Truth or Treat
Words............................. 3736
Characters w/spaces...... 20070

Anne Marie's Mother Is…
Words............................. 3516
Characters w/spaces...... 19205

A Beloved Mom
Words............................. 3704
Characters w/spaces...... 20370

A Mother and Her Son
Words............................. 3649
Characters w/spaces...... 19921


10 Story Average
Words............................. 3651
Characters w/spaces...... 19826


I stand by my contention: as a rule of thumb, using a word processor of your choice, with 1" margins on the top, bottom, left and right, using Verdana 10-point font, 7 pages of text is equivalent to 1 Lit page of text.

Likewise, I stand by the contention that, regardles of your margins and font settings, 3700 words or 20KB characters will still result in approximately one Lit-page and requires no "calibration" or standardization of settings.

 

[Chicklet]

personally, on this site, i mostly stick to stories that *do* have chapters.

My reasoning is that *most* not all, but *most* stories on here are shortish and not worth my time. I like reading something for hours, and knowing that I can read it and come back and read another chapter makes me happy.

My opinion? Do whatever you want.

Chicklet

 

[Guest]

Likewise, I stand by the contention that, regardles of your margins and font settings, 3700 words or 20KB characters will still result in approximately one Lit-page and requires no "calibration" or standardization of settings.

______

Then we agree to disagree!

WH, this was really an interesting exercise. I certainly learned something (I always have a tendency to learn something from you ).

I think, based on the small variance in the numbers, the best measurement is using the approx. 20,000 character (w/spaces) per Lit page as the ratio. That "normalizes" all the crap like fonts, word sizes, page sizes, etc., etc.

I thought this was a good discussion. Thanks.