Chapter length and frequency of sex scenes?

[sunandshadow]

In the case of a novel-length or novella-length erotic story, a fantasy one if that matter, what do you all think is a good chapter length, and how soon does the author need to get to the sex? Also, do you know any tips and tricks for encouraging people to leave good feedback?

I was just wondering because I randomly sat down at my computer today and 2,000 words of this story that's been mulling around in my head sort of spilled out my fingertips, and I'm getting to the end of the first scene but I really haven't gotten any closer to sex than having the main character hear about a brothel and decide to visit it. So I was wondering if I should post this scene as my first chapter when I'm done with it, or wait until I've gotten through the first sex scene (probably another 4,000 words to go till that point) and post all that as the first chapter even though it switches to a different character's point of view, which technically means it ought to be separated into two chapters... Getting the most feedback, and most detailed feedback, is my main goal because that's what motivates me to keep writing the story.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think- if you are looking to hook readers- you might want to start with a sex scene, somewhere further along in the time-line. then you can backtrack to tell how the characters got to this place.

2,000 words isn't really that long an intro, though I had originally cut up one of my stories into two lit pages per submission, and in some of those chunks there wasn't any sex- and as you can imagine, I got lower ratings on those chapters. So if you are serializing a novel, make sure there is a sex scene in every chapter, for the votes!

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Build a storyline around sex

It's my belief that Lit readers are looking for sex and will not be receptive to a story void of it. I encourage you to check out my Dark Desire series. It has enough plot to carry the characters forward without denying the masses of their requisite sex. Which, I think, is quite steamy.

 

[Penelope Street]

... it switches to a different character's point of view, which technically means it ought to be separated into two chapters...

Does a change in point of view require a new chapter? I think separating the text between the scenes is sufficient, like what Simon did for his entry in Minsue's transportation challenge. See the fourth story/fifth post:
https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=494641

 

[sunandshadow]

It's my belief that Lit readers are looking for sex and will not be receptive to a story void of it. I encourage you to check out my Dark Desire series. It has enough plot to carry the characters forward without denying the masses of their requisite sex. Which, I think, is quite steamy.

I'm not talking about a story with no sex at all, I'm talking about a story with so sex in, say, the first 5,000 words.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I'm not talking about a story with no sex at all, I'm talking about a story with so sex in, say, the first 5,000 words.

A Lit page is what, about 3500 words - bit less with a lot of spacing. There are thousands of stories with good scores here that don't get to the sex until page 2, 3 or later. Some put a gentle warning for the reader at the beginning.

For a multi-part post, readers seem to dislike being drip fed less than 5-6k words (2 Lit pages) at a time. I tend to agree, it is a bit frustrating wanting to get on with a story and only getting bitesize chunks.

A way to avoid this is to wait until you've got two or three chapters ready to go, then submit one each day. Otherwise, some writers put two chapters together in one post, 'Story Ch. 01 & 02'.

 

[Strega524]

I think that having a sex scene fairly soon in a story draws the lit reader in quickly, but if you have some well thought out characters and a build up of sexual tension, etc then I think it works to have the sex come later.

All readers are looking for different things and you can't please them all... but I enjoy serial stories and they often have chapters without sex... I think the best way to deal with that is to have a disclaimer at the start of the chapter and then follow up with more chapters quickly, in order to hook people and keep them interested in the story.

Just some friendly advice from a newcomer to the forums, but a longtime reader!

~Strega

 

[Athena_e19]

Sex can be delayed nearly indefinitely so long as the story maintains some eroticism.

Subtle details about one's body, or impulses, or sights and sounds, outside of a sex scene can keep a long story going until you get to the fast paced, intense stuff.

 

[YaoiHuntressE]

For me, I think you have to be fair to the story and want what's best for it. Such as don't throw in a sex scene right away because you're scared that the readers will be bored, but don't make everyone wait forever. In the meantime some titilation and\or sexual tension definately doesn't hurt. I say trust your instincts but with a careful eye.

 

[floweringquince]

I'm with Athena and Yaoi.

If your character simply looks up "Brothels" in the phone book, jots down the address of ACME Sexual Services, and goes back to doing his taxes - that's not enough.

Just as an example, if your character, who has long been afire with sexual longing centered on the delicate frail he occasionally glimpses here and there about town, learns that her name is Fifi Va Voom and she works at Delectable Delilah's Gentlemans' Club & Rumpus Room, and then cannot concentrate on his taxes or anything else in the frenzy of anticipating his visit - something like that could easily be enough

- Quince

 

[Softouch911]

I just did a word count on two chapters. One is 8500 words; one is nearly 60k.

By sex you seem to mean "graphic" description ... if so, I don't think it is needed for erotica, but sexual tension should be just about dripping from every paragraph to develop and "arouse" interest. For porn ... well, it's all about sex.

Good luck.
(Prof.) Joe

 

[john-the-author]

It all kinda depends....

I have some chapters of Kim and Me that start out with action (Chapter 8, for example). But other chapters have almost no sex in them until the very end. In the sequel I'm writing (which isn't posted yet; I want more chapters in hand first), I've got a chapter that's a great deal of dialog as the three characters go shopping for a king-sized bed. There's a little flirting and so on in the first 10,000 words of the chapter, but no action. (There will be, certainly, but it clearly isn't time yet.)

So it all kinda depends on what your characters are telling you to do at the time.

 

[WarLordwrites]

I like serials

Greetings

My serial story "Blood and Iron" -- I'm posting 3000 word chapters.

I've received a couple comments about "too short" BUT I like to end when the plot arc feels right and also I LOVE cliffhangers. YMMV

The sex scenes? If there is action ie sword, sorcery, or adventure, that is some plotting besides the sex your readers will stick with you. Or at least they should.

Add the sex when it feels right to you, if it feels gratuitous...

Then it likely is

Enjoy the journey

WarLord

 

[jomar]

I'm working on a cliffhanger and the first two chapters are 4000 and 3100. In each chapter things bump along, sex, then the cliffhanger and a teaser for the next chapter. I hope it's a fun story for readers. I plan to do what elfin mentioned and submit a chapter a day when they're all done.

 

[JamesSD]

First off, identify why you're writing, and who you're writing for. Is broad appeal important to you? Are you more interested in trying to get a small core group of dedicated readers? Are you chasing a good score? Are you more concerned with telling the story the way you damn well want to tell it, and the readers can like it, or leave it?

If the latter is true, then you need no advice. Write and post as you like.

If you're concerned with reader reception, I can offer some advice. Don't make any submissions without a sex scene. If necessary, make a posting that is "Ch. 1-2". Try to hint that hot sex will be coming fairly early on. A nice, slow build-up can be very rewarding.

Be honest with yourself as to how far the story and your writing can carry the piece. I'll give extremely well written stories more slack when it comes to getting to the sex than something more middle of the road (a category I'd put myself into as a writer).

Generallly avoid cliffhangers, especially early on. For me, as a reader, the author is allowed one cliffhanger, max. If you do it every chapter, I feel like you're yanking me around, and it's akin to a cheap parlor trick. I feel it's much stronger to try to create characters the reader cares about and wants to find out what will happen next, and give them long term goals or problems to resolve.

This last one is a tough one:
Don't post any chapters until the whole story is finished. Minimally be two weeks ahead in your writing relative to posting. This can be tough with a long work, especially when you're seeking feedback early on. Readers can read far faster than writers can write, and if they like your story, will have a voracious appatite. The slowest generally accepted timetable for posting a story is a full chapter (at least 4,000 words, ideally 5k or more) a week, with a set schedule, which you notify the readers of from the start. Most readers, especially of erotica, are into gratification. Many will get frustrated with a drip feed, especially an inconsistent one, and definitely if there are posts that have no sex.

If you submit all the chapters of a story at once, Literotica will post each submission one day after the next for you, as long as the titles are clearly labeled as "Ch. 01", "Ch. 02", etc.

As for getting feedback, good luck on that . No author on Literotica gets as much feedback as they'd like. An exceptionally well recieved story with hundreds of votes will be lucky to get a dozen comments. Comment begging at the end in an author's note can help a little.

 

[sunandshadow]

This last one is a tough one:
Don't post any chapters until the whole story is finished. Minimally be two weeks ahead in your writing relative to posting. This can be tough with a long work, especially when you're seeking feedback early on. Readers can read far faster than writers can write, and if they like your story, will have a voracious appetite. The slowest generally accepted timetable for posting a story is a full chapter (at least 4,000 words, ideally 5k or more) a week, with a set schedule, which you notify the readers of from the start. Most readers, especially of erotica, are into gratification. Many will get frustrated with a drip feed, especially an inconsistent one, and definitely if there are posts that have no sex.

Hah. The whole reason I post stories on the internet is that the feedback is the only thing that motivates me to write the nest chapter - if there is no feedback, there is no next chapter. If I could write a whole story on my own I would publish the result and make some $, not post it free on the internet. But I don't disagree with you - from a reader's point it's ideal to have the whole story available, and waiting for irregular updates is annoying.


What I personally want to write is steamy romance novels, which often don't have a sex scene until the third chapter or so, and may have only 3 sex scenes for the whole book. This doesn't fit together well with a guideline of not posting sexless chapters. That's the root of my dilemma - Literotica isn't really my intended audience.

 

[jomar]

For me, as a reader, the author is allowed one cliffhanger, max. If you do it every chapter, I feel like you're yanking me around, and it's akin to a cheap parlor trick. I feel it's much stronger to try to create characters the reader cares about and wants to find out what will happen next, and give them long term goals or problems to resolve.

Unless you're trying to write one and present it as such, like the old serials, then it's part of the style and each chapter must end in a cliffhanger. Even with a cliffhanger you can create characters the reader cares about.

Don't post any chapters until the whole story is finished.

This is good advice. You might change something in a later chapter that calls for a revision of an earlier chapter.

 

[JamesSD]

What I personally want to write is steamy romance novels, which often don't have a sex scene until the third chapter or so, and may have only 3 sex scenes for the whole book. This doesn't fit together well with a guideline of not posting sexless chapters. That's the root of my dilemma - Literotica isn't really my intended audience.

Well, the Romance Category is a slightly different beast in terms of its readers demand for sex. As a general rule they tend to be much more willing to wait for the sex, more interested in the relationships between characters, so the kind of story you plan to write might do ok. I'd still work hard to have at least 3 chapter submissions finished before you start posting. Readers generally don't like to be drip-fed, in any genre.

Unless you're trying to write one and present it as such, like the old serials, then it's part of the style and each chapter must end in a cliffhanger. Even with a cliffhanger you can create characters the reader cares about.

You can certainly do both, but at least for me it's the characters and the long plot angles that keep me interested, not the cliffhanger. Of course, I may be too young to be into the old serial format, and as part of the instant gratification generation have different expectations.

 

[Menderman]

Advice required please

First off, identify why you're writing, and who you're writing for. Is broad appeal important to you? Are you more interested in trying to get a small core group of dedicated readers? Are you chasing a good score? Are you more concerned with telling the story the way you damn well want to tell it, and the readers can like it, or leave it?

If the latter is true, then you need no advice. Write and post as you like.

If you're concerned with reader reception, I can offer some advice. Don't make any submissions without a sex scene. If necessary, make a posting that is "Ch. 1-2". Try to hint that hot sex will be coming fairly early on. A nice, slow build-up can be very rewarding.

Be honest with yourself as to how far the story and your writing can carry the piece. I'll give extremely well written stories more slack when it comes to getting to the sex than something more middle of the road (a category I'd put myself into as a writer).

Generallly avoid cliffhangers, especially early on. For me, as a reader, the author is allowed one cliffhanger, max. If you do it every chapter, I feel like you're yanking me around, and it's akin to a cheap parlor trick. I feel it's much stronger to try to create characters the reader cares about and wants to find out what will happen next, and give them long term goals or problems to resolve.

This last one is a tough one:
Don't post any chapters until the whole story is finished. Minimally be two weeks ahead in your writing relative to posting. This can be tough with a long work, especially when you're seeking feedback early on. Readers can read far faster than writers can write, and if they like your story, will have a voracious appatite. The slowest generally accepted timetable for posting a story is a full chapter (at least 4,000 words, ideally 5k or more) a week, with a set schedule, which you notify the readers of from the start. Most readers, especially of erotica, are into gratification. Many will get frustrated with a drip feed, especially an inconsistent one, and definitely if there are posts that have no sex.

If you submit all the chapters of a story at once, Literotica will post each submission one day after the next for you, as long as the titles are clearly labeled as "Ch. 01", "Ch. 02", etc.

As for getting feedback, good luck on that . No author on Literotica gets as much feedback as they'd like. An exceptionally well recieved story with hundreds of votes will be lucky to get a dozen comments. Comment begging at the end in an author's note can help a little.

Teachgirl and I have started writing a couple of stories together and we would value peoples thoughts on chapter length and the number of chapters. We tend to write quite long stories that have a good plot and build up, rather than being the "Wham-Bam-Thank-You Mam" stroke stories.

What do you consider to be the right number of pages before you break a story into a second or more chapters?

Should the number of pages be irrevelent, the important part being that chapters only change when there is a major change of direction in the story?

What percentage of readers do you think only want stories that are long enough to bring themselves off to?

What percentage of readers do you think are interested in a well written story, with good character, great descriptive sex, that lasts longer than a hand job, maybe compromising of 3 or 4 chapters?

Any guidance you can give would be much appreciated either on the forum or through a PM

Cheers,

Menderman

 

[jomar]

You can certainly do both, but at least for me it's the characters and the long plot angles that keep me interested, not the cliffhanger. Of course, I may be too young to be into the old serial format, and as part of the instant gratification generation have different expectations.

That's an interesting statement. Instant gratification and long plot angles/nice, slow build-ups seem a bit in conflict. Maybe there's a story there somewhere.

 

[king_wesley]

That's an interesting statement. Instant gratification and long plot angles/nice, slow build-ups seem a bit in conflict. Maybe there's a story there somewhere.

If there's a good story then it should not matter how long you have to wait for the sex to come. If your aim is to just write sex, or something to give readers a quick thrill then yes maybe think about increasing its frequency.

However, if you have an idea which you feels has merit in its story and plot then let the readers wait until the point where the sex scence feels right for them to read one. You may turn off the stroke fans but then again an uncomfortable early bit of sex for the sake of it would possibly turn off an equal number of people.

I would say just write the sex scenes where they feel correct and for each story, location and frequency required will differ depending on many different contexts.

 

[WarLordwrites]

Teachgirl and I have started writing a couple of stories together and we would value peoples thoughts on chapter length and the number of chapters. We tend to write quite long stories that have a good plot and build up, rather than being the "Wham-Bam-Thank-You Mam" stroke stories.

Good questions, I'll try to give you my input afterposting at several sites

What do you consider to be the right number of pages before you break a story into a second or more chapters?

Should the number of pages be irrevelent, the important part being that chapters only change when there is a major change of direction in the story?

I think you should try for a consitent number of pages/words per chapter.

Lately I'm around 3000 words. Might be a touch light but you should pick a number and make them uniform .

By the end of a long story you will find you take on a rhythum matching your choice.

What percentage of readers do you think only want stories that are long enough to bring themselves off to?

What percentage of readers do you think are interested in a well written story, with good character, great descriptive sex, that lasts longer than a hand job, maybe compromising of 3 or 4 chapters?

This is THE fascinating question as NET and story sites mature

Do readers still want exactly the same thing they wanted as the NET began: A quick cum and clean up?

No, readers arren't always about stroke.

At Lit they seem a bit obsessed with it but elsewhere that I post ie StoriesOnLine the trend is good stories get good scores regardless of the frequency of the sex. in fact PWP stroke seems to fall quickly...

That said my story "Blood and Iron" here on LIT is doing Ok even with "lack of sex" so its also by category and Sci Fi are more forgiving of PLOT!!!

Readers are prepared to follow you - IF - if your story is well written, plotted and has good appealing characters.even without the boinking.

Any guidance you can give would be much appreciated either on the forum or through a PM

Cheers,

Menderman

I'd really recommend doing what I several other authors do. Post your stories at several sites. Take an average if you will of feedback and votes. Each story site has its ambience, readers, expectations - all different!

Find the venue that best matches your needs!

Good luck and thanx for some thought provoking questions

Enjoy the journey

WarLord

 

[Softouch911]

The traditional guideline (from EA Poe, no less) is that a story length should be "sufficient" for completion in a single reading session. For most readers that is a MAX of 40-50 minutes -- shorter than it was once upon a time because people's bladders and stomachs are so used to TV ... and because most people have to move their lips to read. So you can decide, mechanically, from that.

But the story, if you're writing romance or something that has a traditional form behind it, or if you're writing something that has "real" characters, will have its own necessities.

If the characters are obvious stereotypes, the story will be shorter because you don't need to develop them and the "point" of the story can come quickly -- 4000 -5000 words.

If the characters are less obvious or, perhaps, actually make an important change in their lives throughout the action of the story (e.g., a confirmed bachelor decides to get married, or an innocent girl becomes a Dominatrix) you'll need more space to make it believable -- 20000 to 30000 words for me normally.

If you have more than one character who requires real development, then you're working on a novella or novel. (The one cited in my sig. is, in rough draft, about 163,000 words and concerns two characters getting from meeting to a BDSM collaring. This is easily 40000 words too long for current romance publishers, so I'm trying to adjust strategies.)

How much sex is easy to answer. If it's porn, it's all sex, all the time. If it's erotica, then you use enough sex to make the point. Once the point is made, it's done and you move on. Where it occurs in such a story depends on the story and the needs of the characters.

Point of View also is an important determinant of length. That's more complicated, but first person is often shorter (because you're limited to what the speaker can see/hear/etc.). Omniscient is longer because you can be more scenic ... in fact, need to be. Limited or immediate third person is usually the longest because it combines the attributes of the others.

That said, I've seen some great short shorts (1500 words or less) in limited omniscient point of view.

Hope this helps.
ST

If

 

[JamesSD]

Hope this helps.

Very well put!

 

[only_more_so]

I like to keep my chapters in the 1.5 - 2 Lit page range, which is 3500-5000 words or so. But that is based on my patience at reading, and the ability to tell a decent chunk of a story in that amount of time.

As for amount of sex... I think a lot of readers would be disappointed if there is not sex in each chapter. But you shouldn't write to please the readers, just understand that is how the feedback and ratings might pan out.

But if it is clearly a multi-chapter story, and you do a good job writing, then you might be able to skip some sex chapters without taking too much flack. But a lot of readers would like some sort of warning (either label it as non-sex or put a note at the beginning).