Changing tenses

[Boxlicker101]

One of the complaints that editors frequently make about writers is that they change tenses. That is, they will be writing a story in the past tense but then switch to present, such as:

"I walked in the door and I see her waiting for me."

This is a grammatical error and I always try to avoid it but sometimes I will use the prersent tense in a story written in the past tense, such as:

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

I'm writing about something that happened last week so I use past tense but I am then describing Susan, who hasn't changed her appearance, except for changing her clothes, so I use the present tense. In other words, when writing about events in the past, I use past tense but in writing about something that is still ongoing, I use present tense. I think this is correct but I have had some feedback complaining about this. What do others think?

 

[English Lady]

No idea *L* this is not my strong point, I change tense alot an spend alot of time editing to correct it (well now i do, you see it more in my older works)and if I'm writing past tense it ALWAYS slips to present tense in the sex scenes....always *L*

It's a bugger. Hope you get an actual answer to your question

 

[ElizabethWest]

One of the complaints that editors frequently make about writers is that they change tenses. That is, they will be writing a story in the past tense but then switch to present, such as:

"I walked in the door and I see her waiting for me."

This is a grammatical error and I always try to avoid it but sometimes I will use the prersent tense in a story written in the past tense, such as:

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

I'm writing about something that happened last week so I use past tense but I am then describing Susan, who hasn't changed her appearance, except for changing her clothes, so I use the present tense. I think this is correct but I have had some feedback complaining about this. What do others think?

I am usually a stickler for maintaining the same tense throughout but in the scenario that you describe I think it is acceptable. I have seen it done quite effectively by certain writers. However, you could always change your description to reflect tense such as "Susan's long hair flowed over her shoulders..."

PS Good editing catch on that bold thing...

 

[BlackShanglan]

Boxlicker -

It's a little difficult to tell, but it sounds right. Tense changes when one directly compares two different time frames - "Last week she'd been tired, but now she felt great" or "Standing at the window, she looks out and thinks, 'Last week, I was happy.'"

You would not change tense if you were moving through the story and the time frames were not being directly compared. For example, if your whole story is written in present tense but takes place over three days, it all stays in present tense unless someone is directly mentioning, on the third day, something that happened on the first.

Shanglan

 

[Guest]

One of the complaints that editors frequently make about writers is that they change tenses. That is, they will be writing a story in the past tense but then switch to present, such as:

"I walked in the door and I see her waiting for me."

This is a grammatical error and I always try to avoid it but sometimes I will use the prersent tense in a story written in the past tense, such as:

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

I'm writing about something that happened last week so I use past tense but I am then describing Susan, who hasn't changed her appearance, except for changing her clothes, so I use the present tense. I think this is correct but I have had some feedback complaining about this. What do others think?

If you are writing about something that happened last week, I think personal desriptions should reflect that as well. It simply saves confusion.

If you describe as having short,curly, dark hair now, what is to say she didn't get a cut, perm and color job in the past week? It can be assumed that she didn't, but I think it reads smoother if everything is kept in the same tense.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
One of the complaints that editors frequently make about writers is that they change tenses. That is, they will be writing a story in the past tense but then switch to present, such as:

"I walked in the door and I see her waiting for me."

This is a grammatical error and I always try to avoid it but sometimes I will use the present tense in a story written in the past tense, such as:

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

I'm writing about something that happened last week so I use past tense but I am then describing Susan, who hasn't changed her appearance, except for changing her clothes, so I use the present tense. I think this is correct but I have had some feedback complaining about this. What do others think?

If you are writing about something that happened last week, I think personal desriptions should reflect that as well. It simply saves confusion.

If you describe as having short,curly, dark hair now, what is to say she didn't get a cut, perm and color job in the past week? It can be assumed that she didn't, but I think it reads smoother if everything is kept in the same tense.

Actually, it gets a litle more complicated. If I say:

We went out to dinner. The waiter was tall and had a bushy mustache. The waiter would still be tall and probably hasn't shaved off his mustache but I would still use the past tense.

Since I always write about women with whom I have an ongoing (ficticious) relationship, I use the present tense. If I wrote about Susan and said "She was tall and had long hair, I would find myself asking mysellf, "What? Did she shrink and cut her hair off?" She still is tall and has long hair.

 

[oggbashan]

I sometimes change tenses deliberately.

I might be writing in the past tense and then when the action gets more interesting (or *interesting*) I change to the present tense:

"I walked into the room and saw Maria for the first time...

Three paragraphs later

I take her hand and walk her out of the room and upstairs. There we strip each other...

After whatever happens I revert to past tense

We left the next morning vowing to meet again..."

Og

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

"I walked in the door and I see her waiting for me."

You have a compound sentence containing two different tenses.

Good – separate: "I walked in the door. I see her waiting for me."

Better – compress: "As I walked in the door, I saw her waiting for me."

* Actually, I hate “walked in the door” – (and banged my head?) I would prefer it to be walked through the door (doorway - understood)

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to . . .”

Another compound sentence, not only with a change of tense, but a change from singular to plural subjects.

Improve – Separate: “Last week I went to Susan’s house. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair. She likes to . . .”

Improve more: “ We both had a great time when I went to Susan’s house last week. She was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. Susan has long hair that she likes to . . . ”


In any case, both examples provided are direct quotes, inside quotation marks. In my opinion, in fiction, proper grammatical structure within direct quotations is counterproductive. Most people do not speak in gametically correct sentences. Employing such produces unrealistic dialogue.

 

[Boxlicker101]

"I walked in the door and I see her waiting for me."

You have a compound sentence containing two different tenses.

Good – separate: "I walked in the door. I see her waiting for me."

Better – compress: "As I walked in the door, I saw her waiting for me."

* Actually, I hate “walked in the door” – (and banged my head?) I would prefer it to be walked through the door (doorway - understood)



"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to . . .”

Another compound sentence, not only with a change of tense, but a change from singular to plural subjects.

Improve – Separate: “Last week I went to Susan’s house. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair. She likes to . . .”

Improve more: “ We both had a great time when I went to Susan’s house last week. She was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. Susan has long hair that she likes to . . . ”


In any case, both examples provided are direct quotes, inside quotation marks. In my opinion, in fiction, proper grammatical structure within direct quotations is counterproductive. Most people do not speak in gametically correct sentences. Employing such produces unrealistic dialogue.

Burley, we seem to have some confusion here. The first sentence contains poor grammar and I am citing it as an example of poor grammar. When you change it to two simple sentences, it is still bad grammar. The third sentence is correct but, you are right, I should say "doorway" rather than "door".

In the second group of sentences, the first is compound and one clause has a plural subject and the other is singular. There is no change of tense. There is nothing wrong with that. In the third sentence, I do change tense because I am describing Susan. If I write in the past tense there, I would be implying that she has changed her appearance since last week.

When writing narrative, I like to mix long sentences (but not too long) with short ones. I believe they flow better this way. My narrative would never write four short sentences in the way you describe as "improve".

Nothing in the examples I provided were intended to be direct quotes. The quotation marks were meant to set apart lines of narrative that might appear in a story from what I was saying about those lines. I have to agree that dialogue should be as individuals actually talk, which may or may not be ungrammatical.

 

[Weird Harold]

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

I'm writing about something that happened last week so I use past tense but I am then describing Susan, who hasn't changed her appearance, except for changing her clothes, so I use the present tense. In other words, when writing about events in the past, I use past tense but in writing about something that is still ongoing, I use present tense. I think this is correct but I have had some feedback complaining about this. What do others think?

You are technically correct and the feedback is wrong.

However, I suspect that from the readers' perspective, it is not obvious that Susan is still around.

You can use either tense for Susan without being entirely wrong. The question is whether it's obvious that you're talking about her appearance the day of the story or her general appearance as you know it in the present.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You are technically correct and the feedback is wrong.

However, I suspect that from the readers' perspective, it is not obvious that Susan is still around.

You can use either tense for Susan without being entirely wrong. The question is whether it's obvious that you're talking about her appearance the day of the story or her general appearance as you know it in the present.

The basic premise of the stories I write in the first person that the narrator, named George Boxlicker, has ongoing relationships with many women, including Susan. I make it clear that the woman, or women in the story are people that (I) see regularly. Although I will probably only write one story about Susan, I indicate clearly that the story describes what happened on one of those visits.

Sometimes a person will appear in a story as a minor character and if I describe them at all, I do so in the past tense, as I said in an earlier post.

 

[Weird Harold]

The basic premise of the stories I write in the first person that the narrator, named George Boxlicker, has ongoing relationships with many women, including Susan.

I did understand that point, but the question is, did the reader(s) who sent you feedback catch that or did they just skim past the set-up looking for the action?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

For me, a tense change will almost always throw me. Sadly, thats much more in reading than writing, so I make themistake myself sometimes. In general, I would say pick a tense and stick through it to the end.


"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

Gramattically correct or not, that throws me badly. Unless you are writing something really stream of conciousness, I think you would be better off ending the reminise bout last week and opening a new thought on how she looks today.

my 2 cents worth

 

[Boxlicker101]

I did understand that point, but the question is, did the reader(s) who sent you feedback catch that or did they just skim past the set-up looking for the action?

Colleen Thomas
Ultrafemme

For me, a tense change will almost always throw me. Sadly, thats much more in reading than writing, so I make themistake myself sometimes. In general, I would say pick a tense and stick through it to the end.


"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

Gramattically correct or not, that throws me badly. Unless you are writing something really stream of conciousness, I think you would be better off ending the reminise bout last week and opening a new thought on how she looks today.

my 2 cents worth
__________________


In most of my stories, the action starts early, about the second or third paragraph, and anybody who skips ahead that quickly probably doesn't care much about tenses or grammar or anything except descriptions of the sexual activity. That doesn't bother me, by the way, because that is basically what I am writing.

Usually, the first paragraph or two describes the woman's situation and sometimes includes some description of her. Other times, at least part of the description comes during the action. "She has very sensitive nipples and likes me to spend a lot of time on them so that's what I did." After that, I would go into detail over what I did and that would be in the past tense. I wouldn't describe the sensitivity of her nipples until it is relevant to the story. I try to avoid including very much description until it is relevant.

 

[Weird Harold]

Gramattically correct or not, that throws me badly. Unless you are writing something really stream of conciousness, I think you would be better off ending the reminise bout last week and opening a new thought on how she looks today.

Usually, the first paragraph or two describes the woman's situation and sometimes includes some description of her. Other times, at least part of the description comes during the action. "She has very sensitive nipples and likes me to spend a lot of time on them so that's what I did." After that, I would go into detail over what I did and that would be in the past tense. I wouldn't describe the sensitivity of her nipples until it is relevant to the story. I try to avoid including very much description until it is relevant.

Like I said in my first reply, your examples are technically correct.


Colleen's suggestion that you separate the tenses into their own paragraphs would quiet some of the feedback, but would probably also disrupt the flow of the story.

elizabethwest's excellent suggestion to change the description to relate to the events -- "Susan's long hair flowed over her shoulders" instead of "Susn has long hair that fows over her shoulders" -- would also quiet some of the feedback about mixed tenses.

But the bottom line is that it's your story and your method is correct so you can simply ignore the feedback with a clear conscience.

 

[KarenAM]

One of the complaints that editors frequently make about writers is that they change tenses. That is, they will be writing a story in the past tense but then switch to present, such as:

"I walked in the door and I see her waiting for me."

This is a grammatical error and I always try to avoid it but sometimes I will use the prersent tense in a story written in the past tense, such as:

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

Your first example, as you noted, has a grammatical tense problem, thugh in the proper context it might be okay. Your second has a shift of tense that is perfectly acceptable, since Susan's hair and predilictions can be the same now as they were a week ago. To write that part in the past tense can be seen as an implication that her hair and predilictions have changed.

English has a very complex tense system, which is one of its strengths. Unfortunately, it also makes us obsessed with tense and time, and not every story should be obsessed with tense and time.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Guest]

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

______

I also agree there really isn't much wrong with the paragraph, technically.

I do have a minor style issue, though, and personally, I would have recast the description of Susan somewhere else, as background, perhaps keeping some or most of that in present tense to give us a mental picture of how she lives and exists and looks, now.

In this case above, what flipped me was the action built up some inertia with two leading sentences defining and suggesting further details of the "good time," but instead it was interrupted--paused--for an afterthought, a clarification of what Susan looks like.

 

[Seattle Zack]

I liked the change in tenses; it seemed to lend an immediacy to the narration, sort of a confidential aside to The Reader. The writer could say almost anything -- that she likes Italian food, that she does anal while drunk, whatever -- and it comes across to me as sort of a private interlude.

There are a couple ways to do first person, especially in mystery or detective stories (of which I read a lot). One is to keep the reader at arm's length, kind of like the Agatha Christie style mysteries. As I scanned the newspaper microfilm of the 1962 jailbreak, I suddenly realized who the murderer was. Then The Reader is left to wonder who, indeed the murderer is. If the protagonist knows, surely The Reader should as well.

(A brief aside here: I hate mystery writers who pull clues out of their asses. In the closing chapter, they throw in a crucial bit of information that wasn't available to the reader. While reading his military records, I had learned that he was not only left-handed, but an expert sniper as well.)

Anyway, I thought the shift tense in the narration Box chose was perfectly appropriate for a story where you want The Reader inside the narrator's head. The narrator would be thinking of her in the present tense, not what she looked like a week ago.

 

[Boxlicker101]

______

I also agree there really isn't much wrong with the paragraph, technically.

I do have a minor style issue, though, and personally, I would have recast the description of Susan somewhere else, as background, perhaps keeping some or most of that in present tense to give us a mental picture of how she lives and exists and looks, now.

In this case above, what flipped me was the action built up some inertia with two leading sentences defining and suggesting further details of the "good time," but instead it was interrupted--paused--for an afterthought, a clarification of what Susan looks like.

You're right. I would never interrupt the action to describe somebody except when it is part of the action. That isn't actually a paragraph from any story but is three sentences forming an example. I have written two stories with a character named Susan and both times she came to my house. Once it involved incest with her brother, Steven, and the other time it involved an orgy after Christmas caroling.

 

[elsol]

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

I'm writing about something that happened last week so I use past tense but I am then describing Susan, who hasn't changed her appearance, except for changing her clothes, so I use the present tense. In other words, when writing about events in the past, I use past tense but in writing about something that is still ongoing, I use present tense. I think this is correct but I have had some feedback complaining about this. What do others think?

Had the same problem... realized something, it's a lot easier to change the simple sentence and description that this descriptive style uses than it is to kill a perspective battle between writer and reader.

So...

----
Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. I always had a warm spot for Susan's long hair and her willingless to watch Casablanca at the drop of hat.

Susan was sitting on the couch wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it, obviously waiting for THE line to come up so we could turn and recite it to each other.

----

It does two things... it avoids the issue and builds a seemingly more complex description structure than "I liked Susan. She is six feet tall... She has blonde hair."

Sincerely,l
ElSol

 

[Boota]

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

That reads like dialogue to me, and the idea of changing tense at the beginning of the physical description makes it seem like a more personal description. Sort of like adding the description as an afterthought, conversationally. While it might not be technically correct, I don't know, it works for me in a first person narration.

"I walked in the door and I see her waiting for me."

That example surely throws me, but the other one doesn't bother me.

 

[elsol]

"Last week, I went to Susan's house and we had a great time. Susan was wearing a bathrobe with nothing under it. She has long hair and she likes to.....

That reads like dialogue to me, and the idea of changing tense at the beginning of the physical description makes it seem like a more personal description. Sort of like adding the description as an afterthought, conversationally. While it might not be technically correct, I don't know, it works for me in a first person narration.

But that is a problem, the sounding like 'dialogue'.

By this I mean... a first person narrative can 'sound' like dialogue (the story is being told to the reader) or it can make the reader a voyeur (the impersonal first-person, for lack of a better term).

If the rest of the narrative is 'impersonal', it's like for 1 scene in the middle of a movie the main character turning to the audience and giving an aside.

It can shock the audience out of the experience because it comes out of nowhere.

So to me, it's okay as long as it's done early enough to make the reader comfortable with it and in a 'series' it has to be often enough to make the stories seem like conversations... every friday night, Boxlicker and I get together at the bar and he tells me his sexual stories.

You can do more informal things in a series because the reader's have a broader experience.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Boota]

Agreed. I should say that I think it's fine in the proper context.

 

[Boxlicker101]

But that is a problem, the sounding like 'dialogue'.

By this I mean... a first person narrative can 'sound' like dialogue (the story is being told to the reader) or it can make the reader a voyeur (the impersonal first-person, for lack of a better term).

If the rest of the narrative is 'impersonal', it's like for 1 scene in the middle of a movie the main character turning to the audience and giving an aside.

It can shock the audience out of the experience because it comes out of nowhere.

So to me, it's okay as long as it's done early enough to make the reader comfortable with it and in a 'series' it has to be often enough to make the stories seem like conversations... every friday night, Boxlicker and I get together at the bar and he tells me his sexual stories.

You can do more informal things in a series because the reader's have a broader experience.

Sincerely,
ElSol

In all my first person stories, the narrator is named George Boxlicker and he is an important part of the tale although not the central character. The central characters are the women in the stories, including Jill, who is actually a TS. I refer to her as a woman and treat her as a woman.

George is a professional writer and a writer on Lit. and the sex stories he writes are true stories of his adventures with women and sometimes other men are also involved. In other words, I write stories of George writing stories of what he does. I try to avoid too much description unless it is important to the story and when I do describe the persons involved, I do so during the action. The descriptions of George's appearance are almost non-existent because they are not usually important.

I like to think there are tens of thousands of Lit. readers who eagerly look for stories by Boxlicker101, although I don't actually believe there are that many. I know there are some, though, because they send me emails telling me about themselves.

 

[elsol]

In all my first person stories, the narrator is named George Boxlicker and he is an important part of the tale although not the central character. The central characters are the women in the stories, including Jill, who is actually a TS. I refer to her as a woman and treat her as a woman.

George is a professional writer and a writer on Lit. and the sex stories he writes are true stories of his adventures with women and sometimes other men are also involved. In other words, I write stories of George writing stories of what he does. I try to avoid too much description unless it is important to the story and when I do describe the persons involved, I do so during the action. The descriptions of George's appearance are almost non-existent because they are not usually important.

I like to think there are tens of thousands of Lit. readers who eagerly look for stories by Boxlicker101, although I don't actually believe there are that many. I know there are some, though, because they send me emails telling me about themselves.

As long as you've made the readership comfortable with the style, then there's nothing wrong with it.

Most readers would dismiss it as "That's just the way George narrates."

Rules are made to be broken, after all

Sincerely,
ElSol