Changing points of view

[soflabbwlvr]

I just finished reading a three chapter story that left me a little puzzled. The first two chapters are told in first person with the husband as the narrator. The wife is a character in the first chapter, but is not present in chapter two. In chapter three the husband is absent, and the rest of the story is told in first person with the wife as the narrator. I was uncomfortable with this change in the POV. Is it just me, or does anyone else have a problem with this structure?

 

[PennLady]

I prefer one POV throughout a story, but if it's "explained" somehow, I suppose I wouldn't mind. It would also depend on the content, i guess. If you're now getting another perspective on previous events, that might neatly dovetail into a good story.

However, just speaking generally, I think one POV should be used through a story.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

I just finished reading a three chapter story that left me a little puzzled. The first two chapters are told in first person with the husband as the narrator. The wife is a character in the first chapter, but is not present in chapter two. In chapter three the husband is absent, and the rest of the story is told in first person with the wife as the narrator. I was uncomfortable with this change in the POV. Is it just me, or does anyone else have a problem with this structure?

If I'm reading this correctly, it stays in first person POV the whole time, but the narrator changes. Correct? So it's not a POV change as much as a narrator change?

Without reading the story it's hard to say what I think, but the clincher for me would probably be the wife's absence in chapter two, which might make chapter three awkward at first. That and the fact that, in general, I'm not a huge fan of first person narration changes.

Why were you uncomfortable? That's kind of a vague word.

(And please, someone correct my terminology if it's all wrong.)

 

[Kurokami]

I dunno... So long as the change in narrator is clearly noted before the story goes too far, this kind of structure can actually be kind of cool, if a challenge to write. I'm trying it myself in something I'm currently writing, and although it's a little tricky making sure each narrator has a distinct voice, and that they keep to themselves (so characters don't refer to things they would have no knowledge of, etc) it's definitely a fun stretch.

It's also important, or at least, I think it is, that any such narrator shift have a purpose in the narrative; either giving a different perspective on the same event, or providing a bit of character development, or what have you. So long as it's not cheap, I guess, I have no problem with multiple narrators.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

If I'm reading this correctly, it stays in first person POV the whole time, but the narrator changes. Correct? So it's not a POV change as much as a narrator change?

Without reading the story it's hard to say what I think, but the clincher for me would probably be the wife's absence in chapter two, which might make chapter three awkward at first. That and the fact that, in general, I'm not a huge fan of first person narration changes.

Why were you uncomfortable? That's kind of a vague word.

(And please, someone correct my terminology if it's all wrong.)

You are correct, the narrator of the story changed in chapter three. I think that also qualifies as a change in POV, but I could be wrong.

In any event, I used the term "uncomfortable" to be kind. In fact, I was seriously disappointed. One character narrated the first two chapters, but a second character took over the narration in the third chapter. I don't know if he intended to construct the story in that manner when he started, or if he felt he had no choice once the husband was written out of the story at the end of chapter two. It was indeed awkward--it felt entirely wrong. I would have used third person omniscient to tell the entire story, but maybe that's just me.

I prefer one POV throughout a story, but if it's "explained" somehow, I suppose I wouldn't mind. It would also depend on the content, i guess. If you're now getting another perspective on previous events, that might neatly dovetail into a good story.

However, just speaking generally, I think one POV should be used through a story.

I agree. In this case, the narrator left the story at the end of chapter two, and another character took up the narration from that point forward. It might have worked better for me if the second character had been a minor character, but she was one of the main characters in the first chapter. I already knew her through the husband's eyes, so when she became the narrator it was a jarring transition.

 

[Sugary_Comfort]

If there's a good reason, I don't mind it too much.

Sorry for this example but I think one of the Twilight books had it so at some points Jacob was the one narrating, not Bella. That was an instance that I didn't mind it because all the stuff happening to Jacob progressed the overall story.

An instance where I couldn't stand it was when I read the book Practical Magic. Yes, this is the book the movie with Sandra Bullock and Nicole Kidman is based off of.

The book switched between the characters of Sally and her two children and probably even Jillian. There was no real point in it either. Nothing the children went through progressed the story.

Also, the book overall was just utter crap. It was incredibly boring. This is one time where the movie was loads better than the book.

 

[russellvilleman]

I prefer one POV throughout a story, but if it's "explained" somehow, I suppose I wouldn't mind. It would also depend on the content, i guess. If you're now getting another perspective on previous events, that might neatly dovetail into a good story.

However, just speaking generally, I think one POV should be used through a story.

^This.

 

[D_Lynn]

I just finished reading a three chapter story that left me a little puzzled. The first two chapters are told in first person with the husband as the narrator. The wife is a character in the first chapter, but is not present in chapter two. In chapter three the husband is absent, and the rest of the story is told in first person with the wife as the narrator. I was uncomfortable with this change in the POV. Is it just me, or does anyone else have a problem with this structure?

I wrote my first full book in 1st person POV. The more intimate perspective felt appropriate since it was erotic fiction. My next book alternated chapters with 1st person POV and 3rd person POV but close to a different character. I patterned it so that the chapters alternated consistently throughout the book. (This book is doing well in publication.)

I asked my test readers if they noticed the change. Not one of them did. That's the key. If you notice the POV, the writer has failed in some way. Either because the transition was clumsy or they simply aren't as good at writing both POVs.

I have been reading books by Greg Iles for years. He switches POVs all the time in alternating chapters. Not necessarily in a consistent way, either. But you NEVER know he even does it. He is a brilliant writer.

There are obviously reasons to use one method over another. I have been experimenting with alternating both, male voice vs. a female voice, and accents in my short stories here. I've been trying everything I can in order to become a better writer. And my test audience is the readers on Literotica. This is a great place to practice, exercise, experiment, and learn because the feedback is so rich.

Please don't be afraid to send a message to the author with your feedback. From what I can tell, everyone here welcomes it.

- Dakota

 

[D_Lynn]

You are correct, the narrator of the story changed in chapter three. I think that also qualifies as a change in POV, but I could be wrong.

I've never read a story that flowed well when the POV is changed without the level of narration being changed. In other words, when chapter one is written in 1st person narrative from Jane's POV and chapter two is written in 1st person narrative from Bill's POV, the reader gets confused about which head they're in.

You have to take into consideration where the reader's perspective is as they are reading the story.

 

[talismania]

It sounds like what was most upsetting here was not so much the shift in POV as it was a yanking away of the story's protagonist. The first two chapters set up the husband as the protagonist, or at least as the person of interest, and then the third chapter came along and yanked the story completely away from the character the reader had been following.

I like stories that shift POV. POV shifts are used all the time in fiction, though more often in novels than short stories. Another POV can add depth to a story and expand a conflict or character (by providing another view of the protagonist or villain, for example).

It would disturb me, though, for a story to abandon the character whose story I thought I was reading.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

[PennLady]

I don't mean to say that changing POVs, or narrators, or both, never works. I've read several books where the author alternated between 3d person for the protagonist, but would write short bits in 1st person as the antagonist.

I much prefer 3d person stories, both to read and to write. Nothing wrong with first person, of course, it's just my preference. So I will switch between characters, sometimes even within a scene, but it's still all 3d person.

 

[Boota]

In the novel I'm working on now, expanded from a short story written in first person, I ran into issues that weren't working when I tried to increase the scope. I have been using first person for the main character, the original character the story was about, and I have introduced two other characters, both of whom are written in third person when I write from their POV. I've done some things in this one that I've had to take early chapters to my trusted proofers to make sure they are working for someone who isn't in my head. I think, really, that is the only rule that counts.

 

[sr71plt]

Some of mine--and most of my coauthored ones--look at events from different POVs. But the narrator is always identified. In books, the narrator of a chapter is identified in the chapter title.

 

[SydneyBlake]

I just finished reading a three chapter story that left me a little puzzled. The first two chapters are told in first person with the husband as the narrator. The wife is a character in the first chapter, but is not present in chapter two. In chapter three the husband is absent, and the rest of the story is told in first person with the wife as the narrator. I was uncomfortable with this change in the POV. Is it just me, or does anyone else have a problem with this structure?

This bothers me, too. If it's written in first person, then I don't think you should change POV. Larry McMurtry got away with this in "Leaving Cheyenne," which I think was one of his first works.

But I haven't seen any McMurtry's around here, so I think amateurs are better off with sticking to convention: first person, one POV.

That's why I prefer third person, where I can show the POV of more than one character.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've changed pov from chapter to chapter, but always set it up at the end of the previous chapter having one character pretty much say they were going to tell the other what happened.

Usually when I do this it is also a flashback in the next chapter.

I switched POV within the same chapter once as well, but received no complaints about anything being confusing.

It doesn't bother me to read as long as the transition is clear.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

It's just a matter of keeping the POVs straight.

All my stories use the 1st person voice. The story I posted prior to my current one now posting uses the changing POV technique. It's called Emily & Ellen's Bet and it's fairly lengthy (17 chapters and about 72K words).

The story before it (Ellen & David's Bet) is told in Ellen's 1st person voice, and the one before that (Emily's Bet) is told in Emily's 1st person voice. Then the two story lines merge in Emily & Ellen's Bet and there was really no other way to progress the story other than to shift the POV back and forth. Sometimes the change happens at the beginning of a chapter, but I also make the change inside chapters as well. I'd considered just using unlabeled chapter or section breaks as the points to make the change. But then thought it might be too confusing, so I ended up labeling the sections to indicate whose 1st person voice is being used.

The issue will give you some idea of preferences. For example, PennLady says she doesn't like either writing or reading 1st person. That's an entirely fine preference. I don't really have a preference as a reader. As a writer I have a definite preference for 1st person. The writing is more difficult and challenging, but relating interior perceptions and emotions and senses in the 1st person voice feels more genuine and immediate to me.

 

[jdnunyer]

This bothers me, too. If it's written in first person, then I don't think you should change POV. Larry McMurtry got away with this in "Leaving Cheyenne," which I think was one of his first works.

But I haven't seen any McMurtry's around here, so I think amateurs are better off with sticking to convention: first person, one POV.

That's why I prefer third person, where I can show the POV of more than one character.

Agreed.

I think first person has its place, but if you're going to write in it, you need to be aware that any POV shifts are likely to be jarring for the reader.

Even in 3rd, I think it's important that POV shifts come with scene changes. Changing from one paragraph to another, without warning, as I've seen some authors here do, is a bit disorienting, IMHO.

 

[Neonurotic]

I dunno... So long as the change in narrator is clearly noted before the story goes too far, this kind of structure can actually be kind of cool, if a challenge to write.

^ Same.

It also depends on the genre and audience you write for. For instance, YA series often have change of narration, usually between the two main characters, though YA have a lot of first person pov which I feel is a bit annoying. First person is so bossy.

 

[PennLady]

Agreed.

I think first person has its place, but if you're going to write in it, you need to be aware that any POV shifts are likely to be jarring for the reader.

Even in 3rd, I think it's important that POV shifts come with scene changes. Changing from one paragraph to another, without warning, as I've seen some authors here do, is a bit disorienting, IMHO.

I have to say that I will switch POVs between characters in a scene, but I try to set it up so that it follows easily. For example, one sentence will have Person A looking at Person B and wondering what they're thinking. The next sentence, starting a new graph, will then switch to Person B's POV. No one's complained so far.

I blame: Nora Roberts.

^ Same.

It also depends on the genre and audience you write for. For instance, YA series often have change of narration, usually between the two main characters, though YA have a lot of first person pov which I feel is a bit annoying. First person is so bossy.

Ha, I never thought of first person as being bossy, but perhaps it is. With me, it's mostly that I want to know what's going on in the minds of the other characters when I'm reading a story so I find first person limiting. When I'm writing, it just flows naturally in 3d person.

 

[jdnunyer]

I have to say that I will switch POVs between characters in a scene, but I try to set it up so that it follows easily. For example, one sentence will have Person A looking at Person B and wondering what they're thinking. The next sentence, starting a new graph, will then switch to Person B's POV. No one's complained so far.

I blame: Nora Roberts.

Well, if no one complains, it's all good.

If Nora Roberts does it and you're appealing to a similar audience, it's hard to imagine that there'd be an issue.

I'm not sure I can name an author I read regularly who does not either write exclusively from the POV of the narrator (if writing in first person) or switch POVs only between scenes/chapters. So my expectations when reading stories here are definitely shaped by that. <shrug>

 

[PennLady]

Well, if no one complains, it's all good.

If Nora Roberts does it and you're appealing to a similar audience, it's hard to imagine that there'd be an issue.

I'm not sure I can name an author I read regularly who does not either write exclusively from the POV of the narrator (if writing in first person) or switch POVs only between scenes/chapters. So my expectations when reading stories here are definitely shaped by that. <shrug>

LOL I "blame" NR only because she's the one romance author I've read the most books by, and she seems to have done this the whole of her career. I hadn't really noticed that similarities until I was on a thread or something and I realized, hey, I do that. It's not entirely on her, either; I hadn't read much of her before I started writing and was doing it -- probably in a much more jarring fashion -- in my early stories. I pay more attention now and try to keep it smoother.

I have written just a couple of things from only one POV, and those are still in the third person. "Island Encounter" was all from the guy's POV; "Who Cares What I Wear?" was all from the woman's; two others as well (In the Red Parlor and Morning Sun). I think all the rest have at least two POVs.

 

[jdnunyer]

LOL I "blame" NR only because she's the one romance author I've read the most books by, and she seems to have done this the whole of her career. I hadn't really noticed that similarities until I was on a thread or something and I realized, hey, I do that. It's not entirely on her, either; I hadn't read much of her before I started writing and was doing it -- probably in a much more jarring fashion -- in my early stories. I pay more attention now and try to keep it smoother.

I have written just a couple of things from only one POV, and those are still in the third person. "Island Encounter" was all from the guy's POV; "Who Cares What I Wear?" was all from the woman's; two others as well (In the Red Parlor and Morning Sun). I think all the rest have at least two POVs.

I wrote a lot of non-erotic fiction before creating this pen name. I only ever wrote in third person, and from multiple POVs, when I wrote mainstream fiction. I've been writing in first person here, but I think I'm going to go back to third soon. And will be using multiple POVs when I do.

 

[beatrice_dreams]

I have to say that I will switch POVs between characters in a scene, but I try to set it up so that it follows easily. For example, one sentence will have Person A looking at Person B and wondering what they're thinking. The next sentence, starting a new graph, will then switch to Person B's POV. No one's complained so far.

I blame: Nora Roberts.

How do you find it when switching between characters when it's also a switch in genders? Do you find yourself writing/thinking differently? It's been an odd experience for me writing from the man's perspective (with many questions to my husband asking "What would you be thinking in this situation??"), but strangely refreshing because they think in straight lines somehow. Would be interested to know how it is for you.

 

[PennLady]

How do you find it when switching between characters when it's also a switch in genders? Do you find yourself writing/thinking differently? It's been an odd experience for me writing from the man's perspective (with many questions to my husband asking "What would you be thinking in this situation??"), but strangely refreshing because they think in straight lines somehow. Would be interested to know how it is for you.

I hadn't really thought about, but I suppose I must, as my characters are different, and think differently from one another. I do ask my husband from time to time, if not for his own opinion, then a more general one on just what he thinks a guy might do in a situation. My beta reader is also a guy, and he's quick to jump in with "A guy like X wouldn't do this/that," and so that helps as well. I think I've gotten a little better at it myself, but I'm sure I cross lines here and there.