Caucasian ONLY Schools and/or Clubs?????

[Chuckus]

Since there are in fact WOMEN only Colleges and African American only colleges.......would you be/find it offensive to have an Caucasian only College?

VMI and the Citadel were forced to allow women in, because they "wanted the same experience" as the men got (only they don't realize that they will NEVER get that same experience, though there are PLENTY of Women Only Military Academies)....

what would you think of an ALL CAUCASIAN College/School/Golf Club? Or is that too KKK for most or to "discriminated"?

Personally if everyone can have a Segregated club (Women Only, African American Only) but yet there are no Caucasian Only Clubs or Schools?

(Just for the record, I threw this out to y'all for an honest discussion........not to be flamed, though I suppose I'lll get my share of flaming.........)

This was started as a post on A Desert Rose's thread entitled "No Women Allowed?"

 

[Chuckus]

Originally posted by A Desert Rose

To address the VMI point you have made: By allowing women in, do you not agree that it has lowered many of the military standards? And would you not agree, that by doing so it has also weakened our military?

 

[Chuckus]

Originally Posted by A Desert Rose:

To address the VMI point you have made: By allowing women in, do you not agree that it has lowered many of the military standards? And would you not agree, that by doing so it has also weakened our military?

I don't agree that it has "lowered" any military standards (there is a standard for women and one for men, I think?)......that is not the issue at hand IMHO. The issue at hand is the same experience........and since VMI/Citadel are now no longer all Male.....and women have come in, the very experience of VMI/The Citadel is NOT the same. To me, it has nothing to do with military standards or anything else.

I, too, hope it brings up fruitful debate. I honestly don't know what others think of the very subject........not VMI/Citadel but an All Caucasian School.........

*Originally posted on A Desert Rose thread Entitled "No Women Allowed*

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

I think that private clubs should always be allowed to set their own membership criteria. The same goes for schools. If it's a private school, funded solely on private money, then I don't see why a school can't be all black, white, yellow, men, women, etc...

I also can't understand why someone would want to break down those walls and force their way to be admitted, even though they don't fit the criteria.

I wouldn't want to go to an all-black school, or an all-woman's school...but then again, I wouldn't want to go to an all-white male school either.

 

[Chuckus]

Originally Posted by Aquila

yes at the moment there is one standard for women and one for men.. which is supported by many feminist as fair..

Personally I would like to see one standard.. Period.

then again I would also like to see the officer corps drawn from the enlisted ranks and not wet behind the ears college students.. nothing like a shiny new butter bar to piss of a group of real soldiers, and get them killed. However The good ones listen to their sergeants and eventually become good leaders, however I still think too large a portion of officers have no business commanding a garbage truck, much less fighting men.

 

[Chuckus]

I think that private clubs should always be allowed to set their own membership criteria. The same goes for schools. If it's a private school, funded solely on private money, then I don't see why a school can't be all black, white, yellow, men, women, etc...

I also can't understand why someone would want to break down those walls and force their way to be admitted, even though they don't fit the criteria.

I wouldn't want to go to an all-black school, or an all-woman's school...but then again, I wouldn't want to go to an all-white male school either.

Very valid points.............very valid. I wouldn't want to goto an All Male school or All Whatever.......the melting pot is what makes it more of an experience for me.....IMHO.

 

[Bob_Bytchin]

On the topic of VMI....there are some very capable women in the military, as well as a large number of incapable ones....there are just as many, if not more incapable males in the military as well. While I do think that academies like VMI and the Citadel should remain all-male, I also think that there are many women that could outshine many of the males who go to those acadamies.

But why not use private money to create a woman's VMI or Citadel instead of crashing the party?

 

[Chuckus]

On the topic of VMI....there are some very capable women in the military, as well as a large number of incapable ones....there are just as many, if not more incapable males in the military as well. While I do think that academies like VMI and the Citadel should remain all-male, I also think that there are many women that could outshine many of the males who go to those acadamies.

But why not use private money to create a woman's VMI or Citadel instead of crashing the party?

I couldn't agree with you more about both genders having plenty of non competence and one side having others that could outshine the others..........

That is not what the issue is to me. The issue is that the women wanted to goto the Citadel and/or VMI to have the same experience as the men. But by the very fact that they are there, the experience itself was forever changed, never to be the same ever again. That's my point.

You have to break down a women differently than a man and it makes the very experience of the Citadel/VMI not the same as when it was All-Male. That's what I'm getting at.

 

[Mischka]

Let's step back and take a look at the reason these institutions exist. Women-only or minority-only institutions arose because these groups were excluded from the white-male-only institutions. Women and minorities were legally prohibited from obtaining an education. Even after slaves were finally considered full humans, they were not allowed to associate with white humans. These institutions were borne of necessity. They have continued out of tradition.

If they are publically funded, they cannot exclude anyone protected by the Bill of Rights. If they are privately funded, they can be as exclusive as the male (white, non-Jew) only golf clubs.

I wouldn't support a white-only anything because the idea is just fucking absurd. Good grief, people, think of the intent behind the institutions you are comparing it to.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I also can't understand why someone would want to break down those walls and force their way to be admitted, even though they don't fit the criteria.

Yes, why is a good question. Where is a NOW representative when you need one?

 

[Mischka]

But why not use private money to create a woman's VMI or Citadel instead of crashing the party?

They did, and it sucked. VMI and the Citadel were challenged unsuccessfully for decades before they finally allowed female cadets. The female-only version of a military academy taught etiquette and dance. No joke.

And despite being "military" academies, the majority of graduates from VMI/the Citadel do not enter the military. The women complained because they were being exlcuded from lucrative business opportunities. The VMI/Citadel networks are amazing, and exclusive. Women were absolutely barred from certain businesses because they were nto graduates of a school they were not allowed to attend. Sexism is a bitch, I tell ya.

 

[Chuckus]

If they are publically funded, they cannot exclude anyone protected by the Bill of Rights. If they are privately funded, they can be as exclusive as the male (white, non-Jew) only golf clubs.

I wouldn't support a white-only anything because the idea is just fucking absurd. Good grief, people, think of the intent behind the institutions you are comparing it to.

Very true indeed Miscka, this is a "controversial" issue for me to even start a thread about.......but I truly want to know what others think........because honestly I don't know, despite my gut feeling.

I say if you can have an All Male, All Female, All This or All That, then why not an All Caucasian Whatever? I'm not saying it to be racist, just a mere thought. Everyone wants an ALL this or ALL that but yet no truly All Caucasian anything and I am very curious what people truly think about the idea......

I agree about it being a publicly funded, you cannot discriminate one single bit.........however if Privately Funded, would the NAACP protest it, people in general protest it? I am curious.......I truly would like to hear people's opinons.........

and just because I posted the topic, doesn't mean I agree with the idea........I'm neutral.

 

[Chuckus]

Yes, why is a good question. Where is a NOW representative when you need one?

Here, Here.............oops I mean, why is a good question also?!

 

[Aquila]

Let's step back and take a look at the reason these institutions exist. Women-only or minority-only institutions arose because these groups were excluded from the white-male-only institutions. Women and minorities were legally prohibited from obtaining an education. Even after slaves were finally considered full humans, they were not allowed to associate with white humans. These institutions were borne of necessity. They have continued out of tradition.

If they are publically funded, they cannot exclude anyone protected by the Bill of Rights. If they are privately funded, they can be as exclusive as the male (white, non-Jew) only golf clubs.

I wouldn't support a white-only anything because the idea is just fucking absurd. Good grief, people, think of the intent behind the institutions you are comparing it to.

Personally I have no clue why someone would want to join an exclusive of race/gender club if they arent of that race/gender, just for the plain fact that you join a club to fit in.. not be known as the idiot that forced his way in...

Like I wouldnt want to join a redneck club, just cause I could.. I don't fit in with them.

 

[Guest]

Since there are in fact WOMEN only Colleges and African American only colleges.......would you be/find it offensive to have an Caucasian only College?

Not to me. But I'd be offeended if the college employed its lecturers according to their skin colour.

 

[Guest]

well....

I frankly don't care if there is exclusive white groups or caucasian colleges. Its in the freakin' 1st amendment for god sakes, freedom of assembly. The Bill of Rights also includes freedom of association. But what is your logic behind the whole idea? Is it because you think it is a form of elitism that they have their own colleges/groups? Is it an injustice? In a way, black colleges/women colleges are using the same tactics that was used upon them in the past, remember Brown vs. The Board of Education, separate but equal? Well your idea is pretty much the same. In summation, people are pretty much free to do everything, but also you have to look at what intentions are really there.

 

[Private Vasquez]

Traditionally Black Universities are not Black Only schools. Anyone can be admitted.

 

[InnocentAngel81]

at the college i go to it seems like it's a predominately white school there are a few black students but it tends to be from the heop only it's kinda aggravating i just dont fit in there.

 

[RastaPope]

I would think a privately funded club/group/school should have the right to limit it's members/students to whatever classifications it sees fit, with no outside intervention.

And I would agree with it.

 

[MechaBlade]

Since there are in fact WOMEN only Colleges and African American only colleges.......would you be/find it offensive to have an Caucasian only College?

VMI and the Citadel were forced to allow women in, because they "wanted the same experience" as the men got (only they don't realize that they will NEVER get that same experience, though there are PLENTY of Women Only Military Academies)....

what would you think of an ALL CAUCASIAN College/School/Golf Club? Or is that too KKK for most or to "discriminated"?

Personally if everyone can have a Segregated club (Women Only, African American Only) but yet there are no Caucasian Only Clubs or Schools?

(Just for the record, I threw this out to y'all for an honest discussion........not to be flamed, though I suppose I'lll get my share of flaming.........)

This was started as a post on A Desert Rose's thread entitled "No Women Allowed?"

I guess I wouldn't be offended, but there are plenty of schools where the White/minority ratio is the same as the Black/non-Black ratio at Historically Black Colleges. Historically Black Colleges. Because, like PV said, non-Black people DO go there.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Re: Re: Caucasian ONLY Schools and/or Clubs?????

Not to me. But I'd be offeended if the college employed its lecturers according to their skin colour.

I can think of two Black colleges in our area that do this. Barber-Socitia, and ...fart... I can't think of the second (I want to say Livingston, or Livingstone), it is a bit north of here. They have fired white lecturers and replaced them with blacks. Law suits pending.

They only had one or two whites to begin with.

 

[DevilBoy79]

I would think a privately funded club/group/school should have the right to limit it's members/students to whatever classifications it sees fit, with no outside intervention.

And I would agree with it.

and get a ton of lawsuits for discrimination, limiting the amount of people if allright, but anything else would be wrong,

 

[Chuckus]

and get a ton of lawsuits for discrimination, limiting the amount of people is allright, but anything else would be wrong,

DB79..........if it is PRIVATELY funded how would they be forced to not discriminate? They take no money from anyone except whom they choose, therefore they should be able to determine whom they let in or not? It is one thing if it's a PUBLICLY funded club/school or whatever...........but a PRIVATE one has no reason to allow anyone in that they don't want.

(I really would like to hear people's opinions.........I don't have a take one way or another.......)

 

[SINthysist]

What I do not like is the coercive nature of the tactics in these instances. We have free speech, but don’t use it to persuade and educate, but instead use it to incite government to action. I also don’t like the rank hypocrisy of minority groups demanding such perks as ethnic-oriented curriculums and separate graduations after telling the entire world how wrong that is….

 

[Chuckus]

What I do not like is the coercive nature of the tactics in these instances. We have free speech, but don’t use it to persuade and educate, but instead use it to incite government to action. I also don’t like the rank hypocrisy of minority groups demanding such perks as ethnic-oriented curriculums and separate graduations after telling the entire world how wrong that is….

kind of like being able to have your cake and eat it too?