Catholics and Nazis

[rambling man]

This has been a bubbling under the surface controversey for decades. Lately, it was brought up here that the Church supported the Nazis in a different thread. Some members of the Church supported the Nazis, but saying the Church as a whole or the Holy See supported the Nazi party is just not true.

The Holy See had warm relations with Mussolini for a time, this is true. They later worked against him just as much as they did Hitler, when he fell into Hitler's orbit.

The charges against the Church stem from the enthusiasm of some Germans for the Nazi cause, including some bishops and archbishops, especially in the north. However, even some German officials, mostly in the south, spoke out bravely against the Nazis, perhaps remembering the repressions braved under the Bismarck regime.

The Holy See organized anti-fascist groups like Pro Deo. It worked closely with OSS chief, General "Wild" Bill Donovan during World War II, not the Gestapo or the Abwehr, but an American intelligence agency. It manufactured thousands of fake baptism certificates for distribution from Constantinople into occupied Europe to protect East European Jews. Some of its people photographed Italian airfields for British Intelligence.

Yes it did maintain a low profile during the war, but to say it gave the Nazis support just is not true, save for a few rogues

 

[OUTSIDER]

Guess who's just had the History channel put on.

 

[rambling man]

not me...never watch the Hitler Channel..

I did just reread Wild Bill Donovan: The Last Hero to help me prepare to teach my 20th Century World class next fall, though

 

[Weevil]

Actually, from what I know the accusations stem from the Popes lack of condemnation of the Nazi's and his failure to protect some Jews.

Some in the Church look at this as his being anti-semitic and some see it as him(The name of the pope slips my mind which may give you an idea of why I was excommunicated) simply doing what he had to to get the Nazis to lay off Catholics.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

omg!! Rambling man, my step bro and I also call it the Hitler channel. For some reason whenever I am channel surfing and come across it there is always some damn program about Hitler or the nazi on it.

 

[Demian]

The History of the War is Written by the Victors...

England and the United States turned away boatloads of the Beautiful Jewish people when Hitler sent them our way...They ended up going back to the Death Camps...

No one ever brings up Joshua...When the Israelites entered Caanan(sp?), they were instructed by Jehovah to go in and Kill every man, woman, child and beast...Iz that not genocide or wut?

 

[p_p_man]

Yep. Confusing thing...

...religion and morality.


That's why I'm glad I don't belong to the club.

 

[rambling man]

No one did a good job protecting the Jews and the London Times was much more supportive of Hitler than most any other institution in the free world. The Pope was in a fairly poor position to make major statements after a certain period, although i do believe he spoke against the Nazis in the 1930s, maybe after Krystalnacht

 

[Pyper]

I took a German literature and film class and it was interesting to see how the Germans from different eras after the war portrayed religion in their works (I even did my midterm paper on this subject). The literature and films made right after the war showed religion as struggling against the Nazis, while later fiction and film showed religion, especially Catholicism, as complicit with the Nazis. How to interpret this? I'm not sure, but my take on it is that the German people later on were more ready to accept their own part in the Holocaust, including their church's part. (The earlier works always portrayed the German people as innocents, usually young boys called to war.)

I don't buy that the pope during the war (Innocent something-or-other?) didn't have any power to stop the Holocaust and thus didn't speak out against it. A large population of Germany was Catholic, they would have listened. An interesting story about that pope: When he died, the plan was to preserve his body with a new wax technique, similar to the one used on Eva Peron. This way he would be perfectly preserved forever, looking almost as if he was asleep. However, something went wrong with the embalming. His body began to rot while in state, giving off a horrible smell and driving all the viewers away. Catholic authorities had to quickly dispose of it.

If I believed in divine retribution, that would be it.