Car Talk

[Netzach]

Come on, fire away. Advice here.

 

[rosco rathbone]

My mom always gets used HOndas. Loves em.

 

[Netzach]

My mom always gets used HOndas. Loves em.

My mom was friends with some mechanics who told her to get used Hondas. She doesn't drive either, of course, but I paid close attention to her advice.

So used Hondas, people. I tell ya, they're the way to go.

 

[Homburg]

Need more info.

Are you buying, or needing maintenance advice? What are you needs vis a vis seating, storage, doors, performance, etc. How concerned are you with crash-worthiness? What sort of budget level are we talking? What sort of maintenance cost/hassle are you willing to tolerate?

Not asking how much you can spend, but more are you planning cash, dealer, financing, etc. It is one thing to say "used honda" when the person was thinking more along the lines of new mercedes. Feel free to PM if you don't want to answer any of these in the clear.

And, on hondas, yes, they're great cars. They are also well-known to be great cars, thus they retain value a bit too well on the used market. While you have less chance of going wrong buying a used honda than you will buying certain other brands, you will pay a premium for that. There are plenty of other brands out there that will give you similar cost of ownership to a honda. And, at the end of the day, cost of ownership is what people are talking about when they laud honda cars. They tend to last with less need for major maintenance, thus the cost of ownership is not so heavy.

Oh, and how big is M? Assuming this car is for you, you're pretty average-sized vis a vis height, so you're not an issue. If M is 6'8", that modifies things.

 

[Homburg]

And I've never owned a honda. Driven plenty, but not owned one. My parents own two, but, in both cases, they got the cars for stupendously little money. One was through me, as I'd found an 89 CRX on a wholesaler's backlot that I had access to, and got it below black book, and the other was off of viv's parents for, again, below black book.


(Black book is auction value, and equal to or lower than wholesale as it is what wholesale is based on.)

 

[WriterDom]

I've heard some good things about the Hyundai lines. I've had three Toyotas and was happy with them all.

 

[Cattypuss]

I am a used Honda lover. I'm not Rosco's mum.

 

[Netzach]

Need more info.

Are you buying, or needing maintenance advice? What are you needs vis a vis seating, storage, doors, performance, etc. How concerned are you with crash-worthiness? What sort of budget level are we talking? What sort of maintenance cost/hassle are you willing to tolerate?

Not asking how much you can spend, but more are you planning cash, dealer, financing, etc. It is one thing to say "used honda" when the person was thinking more along the lines of new mercedes. Feel free to PM if you don't want to answer any of these in the clear.

And, on hondas, yes, they're great cars. They are also well-known to be great cars, thus they retain value a bit too well on the used market. While you have less chance of going wrong buying a used honda than you will buying certain other brands, you will pay a premium for that. There are plenty of other brands out there that will give you similar cost of ownership to a honda. And, at the end of the day, cost of ownership is what people are talking about when they laud honda cars. They tend to last with less need for major maintenance, thus the cost of ownership is not so heavy.

Oh, and how big is M? Assuming this car is for you, you're pretty average-sized vis a vis height, so you're not an issue. If M is 6'8", that modifies things.

I'm not asking advice, bucko. I'm giving it.

I am about to take my MN road test. I know sometimes it sounds like I'm a driver because I'm ashamed of the fact that I'm 35 and such a dyed in the wool New Yorker that I never went back to take care of the 20 year lapse since I passed my NYC road test.

But I feel kinship with cars, I've ridden in them, and I listen to the car guys.

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

A few Random Thoughts.

A few ideas:

Beware of Badge Engineering!! Mazda X3 @$12k= Ford Focus @$16k = Volvo S40 @ $26k = Jag X @ $36k. Same car, different fenders and lighting units, and logos ("Badges" as the industry calls them).

One idea. Older Mercedes Diesel. Can be found very cheaply. They run forever, need little maintenance, and diesel fuel is now cheaper than gas (sometimes). Roomy, safe, and all the acceleration of a snail crawling up-hill. Also damn noisy.

If you can find it, used 4 cylinder Swedish built Volvo. Roomy as hell, safe, little maintenance required, and economical for its size @18-20 mpg. HOWEVER, sooner or later it will need mechanical care. Dealers will charge an arm and a leg. Parts cost more than for a Benz!!!

I have a 1990 740GL wagon that is in super shape. Actually it was at the dealer until June '92. Only major repair was a water pump. Indy shop $375.
The front turn signal lens dried out and cracked. The dealer wanted $400 installed. I bought from indy parts importer for 2/$150+$9 tax and installed both in under 10 minutes.

A shop manual -Chilton, etc-- at @$25 will pay for itself with one use.


NOTE Love the new AV. The Louise Brooks look!

 

[Homburg]

I've heard some good things about the Hyundai lines. I've had three Toyotas and was happy with them all.

In the mid 90's, Hyundai basically borrowed a ton of Honda QA people (former or current, can't remember), and redid their QA top to bottom. The result was a complete turnaround from a cheap-ass car company making cheap-ass cars to an inexpensive car company making pretty darned good cars. Kia did a similar move in the late 90's with Hyundai people.

I'm happy with hyundai for what you pay for them.

Toyota is much like honda. Reliable, solid, yes, but you pay for that with higher costs on used toyotas.

Really, and this is dead honesty, honda and toyota are not stridently and nastly more reliable than industry standard. They made their name during a time when American car companies were fucking everyone with Engineered Life Expectancy (ie Engineered Failure). Honda and toyota did not believe in this idea, preferring Engineered Success. Their cars weren't designed to shit out at 60k miles, thus forcing sales. People realised this fact the hard way, and bought more hondas and toyotas as a result.

These days, cost of ownership is a much finer line. The consumer is more savvy due to availability of information.

--

I'm not asking advice, bucko. I'm giving it.

I gotcha. I read that incorrectly.

I am about to take my MN road test. I know sometimes it sounds like I'm a driver because I'm ashamed of the fact that I'm 35 and such a dyed in the wool New Yorker that I never went back to take care of the 20 year lapse since I passed my NYC road test.

But I feel kinship with cars, I've ridden in them, and I listen to the car guys.

This is more alien to me even than the idea of living in one place your whole life. Driving is so very deeply ingrained into my life and psyche that living without it is unthinkable.

--

A few ideas:

Beware of Badge Engineering!! Mazda X3 @$12k= Ford Focus @$16k = Volvo S40 @ $26k = Jag X @ $36k. Same car, different fenders and lighting units, and logos ("Badges" as the industry calls them).

Very much so. You can buy a Chevy Colorado, and get a cheap small truck with a mediocre warranty, or you can buy the Isuzu version, and get the same cheap, small truck for a similar price and a significant;y better warranty.

So many of the up-brand cars are just lightly reworked and rebadged low-grade crap.

One idea. Older Mercedes Diesel. Can be found very cheaply. They run forever, need little maintenance, and diesel fuel is now cheaper than gas (sometimes). Roomy, safe, and all the acceleration of a snail crawling up-hill. Also damn noisy.

A lot of the older diesels are fantastic buys. Diesel is better in so many ways, and I wish that the US would wake up and start buying diesel more often. There's a lot of really cool stuff going on with diesel in Europe, and the carmakers just refuse to bring it over here because they know we won't buy it.

*grumble*

If you can find it, used 4 cylinder Swedish built Volvo. Roomy as hell, safe, little maintenance required, and economical for its size @18-20 mpg. HOWEVER, sooner or later it will need mechanical care. Dealers will charge an arm and a leg. Parts cost more than for a Benz!!!

A friend of mine had an '81 Volvo wagon that had a documented and verified 1.3 million miles on it. He put almost 200k of those miles on it himself. The previous 1.1 mil were put on by a succession of owners on the Austin Mini Morris Minor etc car show circuit. It was used as a tow cars to shows all over Europe before being brought to US specs and imported by a Mini nut.

The previous owner actually had a newspaper article in Swedish about the car. Volvo offered to trade it in for a brand-new wagon when it hit 1mil. The owner at the time refused. Considering that it got another 300k before the body rusted out, I can't blame him for keeping it.

 

[00Syd]

Question from a fellow dyed in the wool New Yorker: How does one drive an automobile?

 

[ownedsubgal]

Question from a fellow dyed in the wool New Yorker: How does one drive an automobile?

i would like the answer to this one also, and i don't even have the excuse of being a New Yorker...i am a country southern girl from a place where folks typically learn to drive manual shift pick-ups at 11 years old tops. the message just didn't take with me...i have a major phobia about driving. what if you hit another car? what if you run over a pedestrian? what about bambi?

 

[Keroin]

This is more alien to me even than the idea of living in one place your whole life. Driving is so very deeply ingrained into my life and psyche that living without it is unthinkable.

What he said.

Question from a fellow dyed in the wool New Yorker: How does one drive an automobile?

*Slaps forehead*

Driving is...driving is...everything. Freedom. Pleasure. Necessary.

I remember the first time an adult man told me he didn't know how to drive, (yes, he was from NYC), he might as well have told me he didn't know how to breathe. I didn't know such creatures existed.

Pet peeve #43 about drivers - they look about six feet ahead at again given moment, instead of about six car lengths ahead. No awareness of their surroundings and no concept of accident avoidance.

 

[00Syd]

i would like the answer to this one also, and i don't even have the excuse of being a New Yorker...i am a country southern girl from a place where folks typically learn to drive manual shift pick-ups at 11 years old tops. the message just didn't take with me...i have a major phobia about driving. what if you hit another car? what if you run over a pedestrian? what about bambi?

HAHAHAHAHA!!

 

[Homburg]

i would like the answer to this one also, and i don't even have the excuse of being a New Yorker...i am a country southern girl from a place where folks typically learn to drive manual shift pick-ups at 11 years old tops. the message just didn't take with me...

Yep, that was me. Sitting in a field, 11 years old, at the wheel of a 1970 Chevy C10 learning to drive. It was an automatic though.

i have a major phobia about driving. what if you hit another car?

Most accidents arrest forward movement. You get out of the car, assess injuries, and start exchanging info. Usually someone calls the police and/or emergency services. Traffic backs up.

what if you run over a pedestrian?

More often than not, pedestrians don't get run over. They get hit by the car and then go up over the hood and windshield. The ones that are run over are that way because they fell, were hit by something tall, or jumped out in front of the car.

Much like the above, you stop, assess injuries, and call 911. Traffic really backs up.

In an argument between a car and a person, the person usually loses.

what about bambi?

Bambi has a lower center of gravity than a person. As a result, bambi gets whacked and usually goes around the side of the vehicle, or underneath. Over the hood is much more rare. Bambi also tends to shit all over the car and road when this happens.

In an argument between a car and a deer, the deer always loses. You stop, assess injuries, and call 911. The responding officer will usually put bambi out of its' misery with a pistol shot to the head. This assumes bambi didn't survive intact enough to bolt into the woods and expire later.

Now, if you want interesting, talk car vs cow, or car vs moose. Whole different ball-game. The really big herbivores will stop your car dead. If you weren't moving too fast, the cow will walk away, and might survive. A moose may well decide it is time to mess you up solidly, and go after the car.

Car vs moose or cow is usually a tie, with both parties getting messed up. I have seen the results of cow vs Mack truck, and it was a tie as well. Big herbivores are bad to hit.

Interestingly, I've also seen the results of car vs turtle. It was, surprisingly enough, a tie as well. Sure, the turtle got splattered, but he punched a respectable turtle-shaped hole through the grille and into the radiator. The resulting catastrophic loss of coolant blew the engine. Dead car. I'm sure the turtle's spirit felt vindicated.

And I'm sure that none of this is helping you. I'll hush up now.

 

[MisterSir]

i would like the answer to this one also, and i don't even have the excuse of being a New Yorker...i am a country southern girl from a place where folks typically learn to drive manual shift pick-ups at 11 years old tops. the message just didn't take with me...i have a major phobia about driving. what if you hit another car? what if you run over a pedestrian? what about bambi?

Wha-BAMBI? Bambi was shot! By a guy with a rifle! You couldn't duplicate that in a car, no matter how many drive-bys you pull off!

 

[Homburg]

Pet peeve #43 about drivers - they look about six feet ahead at again given moment, instead of about six car lengths ahead. No awareness of their surroundings and no concept of accident avoidance.

My own shining moment of situational awareness involved my rear view mirror. Even driving down a straight highway, I will sweep all of my mirrors on a regular basis. About two years ago, this paid off. I was driving on the highway leaving Va Beach, and glanced in my rear view in time to see a tractor trailer jack-knife. He was traveling significantly faster than I was (probably why he jack-knifed), so his now-sideways trailer was coming up my tailpipe at a high rate of speed.

I down-shifted, punched the accelerator for all I was worth, and nearly found jesus. It was exciting (in a bad way) to watch the BMW behind me get turned into a convertible a la sardine can style when the trailer caught his roofline from behind. The horror of it was mitigated by seeing the BMW drivers head pop up and clearly seeing the surprised look on his face.

It's a lot of fun to elude a completely out of control 53' dry van trailer careening at you in excess of your forward speed as you pray for your underpowered four cylinder to magically grow some balls and GO FASTER NOW.

I managed to call 911, but was WAY to adrenalised to think about stopping. I don't think I slowed down for another county's worth of road.

So remember kids, watch your mirrors!

 

[rosco rathbone]

My own shining moment of situational awareness involved my rear view mirror. Even driving down a straight highway, I will sweep all of my mirrors on a regular basis. About two years ago, this paid off. I was driving on the highway leaving Va Beach, and glanced in my rear view in time to see a tractor trailer jack-knife. He was traveling significantly faster than I was (probably why he jack-knifed), so his now-sideways trailer was coming up my tailpipe at a high rate of speed.

I down-shifted, punched the accelerator for all I was worth, and nearly found jesus. It was exciting (in a bad way) to watch the BMW behind me get turned into a convertible a la sardine can style when the trailer caught his roofline from behind. The horror of it was mitigated by seeing the BMW drivers head pop up and clearly seeing the surprised look on his face.

It's a lot of fun to elude a completely out of control 53' dry van trailer careening at you in excess of your forward speed as you pray for your underpowered four cylinder to magically grow some balls and GO FASTER NOW.

I managed to call 911, but was WAY to adrenalised to think about stopping. I don't think I slowed down for another county's worth of road.

So remember kids, watch your mirrors!

Hell yes.

Keep your neck on a swivel. Watch your six at all times like a fighter pilot.

I never use my brakes. If I have to brake, I count that as a mark against me...I wasn't looking far enough ahead.

 

[00Syd]

I want to learn how to drive, but have no real opportunity to do so. My mother no longer owns a car, and my dad hasn't owned a car since he moved to NY in the 80s. Nobody I know who could teach me how to drive owns a car. I could go to a driving school but that would mean learning on the streets of NYC, and having been in many taxi cabs in my life, the thought of that is terrifying.

Similar to learning how to ride a bike, I never had the opportunity to do so (landlord wouldn't let us keep the bike under the stairs, can't keep one on the street, too heavy to carry to a 4th floor walk up, etc.) and so have only recently acquired that skill. I'm not sure when I'll learn to drive. Probably sometime after I graduate, if at all.

 

[Keroin]

Hell yes.

Keep your neck on a swivel. Watch your six at all times like a fighter pilot.

I never use my brakes. If I have to brake, I count that as a mark against me...I wasn't looking far enough ahead.

Braking should only occur in instances of complete obstruction...or if the bridge has washed out.

How about the farking bad drivers who compound their lack of skill by multi tasking while driving?

 

[rosco rathbone]

I want to learn how to drive, but have no real opportunity to do so. My mother no longer owns a car, and my dad hasn't owned a car since he moved to NY in the 80s. Nobody I know who could teach me how to drive owns a car. I could go to a driving school but that would mean learning on the streets of NYC, and having been in many taxi cabs in my life, the thought of that is terrifying.

Similar to learning how to ride a bike, I never had the opportunity to do so (landlord wouldn't let us keep the bike under the stairs, can't keep one on the street, too heavy to carry to a 4th floor walk up, etc.) and so have only recently acquired that skill. I'm not sure when I'll learn to drive. Probably sometime after I graduate, if at all.

I had to go to driving school in NYC for a refresher course when I let my license lapse. They are used to people who are nervous and they won't start you out in heavy traffic if you let them know that you want to work up to it. You should do it.

 

[ownedsubgal]

And I'm sure that none of this is helping you. I'll hush up now.

thank you for making me feel better about never learning how to drive!

oh and btw, bambi doesn't always lose. a few months back we were driving on a winding, suburban road with a decent amount of wooded area on the sides. traffic was moving slowly, as is typically the case in this area no matter where you are. seemingly out of nowhere, this huge buck runs out into the road and slams into the back of Daddy's car (a midsize SUV). the car was jarred, i was thrown forward in my seatbelt. after hitting us the buck stopped, shook his head a bit, then went bolting into the woods on the other side of the street. he probably had a serious headache, but didn't seem to be at all injured. Daddy's car otoh needed some minor repairs.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Wha-BAMBI? Bambi was shot! By a guy with a rifle! You couldn't duplicate that in a car, no matter how many drive-bys you pull off!

actually, that was bambi's mom. my point remains however, i don't want to hurt bambi or his little woodland friends, such a thing would probably traumatize me for life.

 

[rosco rathbone]

thank you for making me feel better about never learning how to drive!

oh and btw, bambi doesn't always lose. a few months back we were driving on a winding, suburban road with a decent amount of wooded area on the sides. traffic was moving slowly, as is typically the case in this area no matter where you are. seemingly out of nowhere, this huge buck runs out into the road and slams into the back of Daddy's car (a midsize SUV). the car was jarred, i was thrown forward in my seatbelt. after hitting us the buck stopped, shook his head a bit, then went bolting into the woods on the other side of the street. he probably had a serious headache, but didn't seem to be at all injured. Daddy's car otoh needed some minor repairs.

The last time I hit a deer (middle of three that ran across the road), I had to go home, get a rifle, shoot it in the head, and then call the guys at the filling station to come haul it away for venison.

 

[Homburg]

thank you for making me feel better about never learning how to drive!

oh and btw, bambi doesn't always lose. a few months back we were driving on a winding, suburban road with a decent amount of wooded area on the sides. traffic was moving slowly, as is typically the case in this area no matter where you are. seemingly out of nowhere, this huge buck runs out into the road and slams into the back of Daddy's car (a midsize SUV). the car was jarred, i was thrown forward in my seatbelt. after hitting us the buck stopped, shook his head a bit, then went bolting into the woods on the other side of the street. he probably had a serious headache, but didn't seem to be at all injured. Daddy's car otoh needed some minor repairs.

This is true. The assumption I was making was the front of the car hitting the deer. Deer are usually bright enough not to whack into the back of the car.

And I still shake my head over the turtle hit. Damnedest thing I ever saw.