Can Someone Interpret This?

Rumple Foreskin

The AH Patriarch
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Posts
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The headline caught my eye. After a careful read, however, it appears to be sports related. But since, in addition to Rugby, it has something to do with New Zealand haka and the Welch national anthem, I'm just a bit confused.

Maybe TheEarl, Og, English Lady or some other learned soul from over that neck of the woods can shed light on this All-Black incident.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:

==

All Blacks hide haka behind closed doors

CARDIFF (AFP) The All Blacks performed their famous haka in their Millennium Stadium dressing room after a row with the Welsh Rugby Union.

The New Zealanders, who beat Wales 45-10, were furious that the WRU had requested the haka be performed in between the national anthems, rather than just before kick-off.

Wales had wanted their own national anthem, Hen Wlad fy Nhadau (Land of My Fathers), to be their official response to the challenge.

But, to the disappointment of the 75,000 crowd, New Zealand decided to put on a private performance of the haka before taking the field.

The decision was greeted by boos from the Welsh supporters, who had not been made aware of the reasons behind it.

But, in a statement, All Blacks captain Richie McCaw said the team had acted to protect the tradition of haka that is "integral to New Zealand culture and the All Blacks' heritage."

"The tradition needs to be honoured properly if we're going to do it," added McCaw.

"If the other team wants to mess around, we'll just do the haka in the shed (changing room).

"At the end of the day, haka is about spiritual preparation and we do it for ourselves. Traditionally fans can share the experience too and it's sad that they couldn't see it today."

New Zealand had agreed to the same request from the WRU last year as part of the celebrations marking a centenary of rugby between the two nations.

The WRU issued their own statement explaining they had taken advice from Maori chiefs that it was appropriate to want to respond to the haka.

The statement read: "The WRU have also been advised by a top Maori expert and cultural adviser that the haka is performed to invite a response from the opposing team and were told to stand strong in front of the All Blacks, be defiant, eyeball them and sing in a way that says 'this is us, this is who we are, we're tangata whenua', which means the traditional owners and protectors of the land.

"The WRU informed their New Zealand counterparts of the formal pre-match protocol six weeks ago (October 16). This followed the pre-match protocol from the very first game in 1905 and replicated last year's schedule."
 
The AllBlacks do a dance before their games. Sounds like they may have dropped a deuce during the dance.
 
It seems to me that the Welsh team wanted to change the pre-game ritual and this upset the New Zealand team who decided to do their ritual dance in private (keeping in mind that I know next to nothing about the sport).
 
The Haka is the traditional Maori dance that is performed by the whole team before each match. It's an awesome and joyful sight.

See this link.
 
From readint the article, this is what I got: The All-Blacks did their Haka, and the Welsh should have responded.

The statement read: "The WRU have also been advised by a top Maori expert and cultural adviser that the haka is performed to invite a response from the opposing team and were told to stand strong in front of the All Blacks, be defiant, eyeball them and sing in a way that says 'this is us, this is who we are, we're tangata whenua', which means the traditional owners and protectors of the land.

The appropriate thing, IMHO would have been to answer with the Welsh national anthem, making everybody happy.
 
There is a lot of passion and pride in "Land of my fathers", although I prefer to hear 'sospan fach' but singing a song as answer to a haka doesn't strike me as particularly challenging, in much the same way that the same response to the Zulu chanting at Rork's Drift didn't thrill me half as much as the battle songs of the opposition. (in the classic movie) No contest really.
 
gauchecritic said:
There is a lot of passion and pride in "Land of my fathers", although I prefer to hear 'sospan fach' but singing a song as answer to a haka doesn't strike me as particularly challenging, in much the same way that the same response to the Zulu chanting at Rork's Drift didn't thrill me half as much as the battle songs of the opposition. (in the classic movie) No contest really.

I have never seen a haka and had never even heard of it until I read this thread. To my knowledge, I have never heard the Welch national anthem.
 
Boxlicker101 said:
From readint the article, this is what I got: The All-Blacks did their Haka, and the Welsh should have responded.

The statement read: "The WRU have also been advised by a top Maori expert and cultural adviser that the haka is performed to invite a response from the opposing team and were told to stand strong in front of the All Blacks, be defiant, eyeball them and sing in a way that says 'this is us, this is who we are, we're tangata whenua', which means the traditional owners and protectors of the land.

The appropriate thing, IMHO would have been to answer with the Welsh national anthem, making everybody happy.

Not quite. The tradition, in New Zealand rugby matches, is that the anthems are sung and then the haka performed. Some sides respond to the haka: Samoa, Fiji and Tonga have hakas of their own, which they perform opposite the NZ one.

Wales wanted to switch the order of events so that they would sing their national anthem after the haka, so they would be responding to the battle challenge. NZ wanted their haka to be the last thing before the game started, which seems a bit silly, considering it is a challenge that can be answered.

There was an impasse, so NZ threw the toys out the pram and performed the challenge indoors. A little bit precious, to my mind.

The Earl
 
The All-Blacks (New Zealand's Rugby Team) have performed the Haka for generations. It is a Maori challenge to a visitor suggesting that the visitor should come in peace - or else.

To be on the receiving end of a Haka can be very intimidating. The visitor is expected to make an appropriate response and if Maori should perform another Haka building on the Haka already performed. It is a song, dance and poetry contest with bloody overtones. A spontaneous and witty reply is expected.

The Welsh rugby team are quite capable of performing a Haka as a reply. They could have one composed in Welsh that would be unanswerable. To have the crowd sing would not be appropriate. The response should be from the team.

Complaints have been made that the Haka is intimidating. It is meant to be. So is a country's Rugby team.

Playing Wales, in Wales, is intimidating for any Rugby team. The crowd's singing is partisan and full-blooded.

As usual the authorities seem to have got worried about nothing. The Welsh team should have been prepared to respond to a Haka and allowed to.

Og

PS. Born in Wales and has played Rugby including against a New Zealand club team who performed a Haka. We replied by suggesting that they were lacking in masculine attributes and that they couldn't hold a tune. We lost. (The Rugby match, not the Haka)
 
matriarch said:
The Haka is the traditional Maori dance that is performed by the whole team before each match. It's an awesome and joyful sight.

See this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_BCKZqDLUM

This link shows New Zealand performing the haka (the team in black), while the challenge is responded to by the Tongan team performing their haka (the Sipi Tau) (the team in red). Absolutely fucking awesome sight.

The Earl
 
There is slightly more on the motivation behind each team's actions in this version of the story. I'm not sure which side I come down on - the Haka is traditionally a challenge which can be answered. Yet in rugby, the tradition is very clearly that the Haka is the last action before kick off.

I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a Welsh rendition of their national anthem as a weak response. I've been in the Milennium Stadium in Cardiff and felt it shake to the sound, and it is very intimidating. Equally, on the three occassions I've witnessed a Haka, it is absolutely petrifying. Especially when a Maori player leads the Haka.
 
In the extras section of one of the LotR DVDs (Two Towers I think) there's a clip of some of the Uruk-Hai doing a Haka at Helm's Deep (obviously between takes ;) ).
 
They just slap their thighs and grunt because they can't sing

Somebody has to set them right :catroar:

Calon Lan

Nid wy'n gofyn bywyd moethus
Aur y byd na'i berlau mân
Gofyn rwyf am calon hapus
Calon onest, calon lân.
Cytgan:
Calon lân yn llawn daioni
Tecach yw na'r lili dlos
Does ond calon lân all ganu
Canu'r dydd a chanu'r nos.

Pe dymunwn olud bydol
Chwim adenydd iddo sydd
Golud calon lân rinweddol
Yn dwyn bythol elw fydd.

Cytgan:

Hwyr a bore fy nymuniad
Esgyn ar adenydd cân
Ar i Dduw, er mwyn fy Ngheidwad
Roddi imi galon lân.
 
Svenskaflicka said:
...or we could just bring out the dicks and a ruler and see who's the most threatening...

You could take all identifiers from that comment and I'd still probably guess it was one of yours...

The Earl
 
TheEarl said:
You could take all identifiers from that comment and I'd still probably guess it was one of yours...

The Earl


Because of my impeckable sense of grammar? ;)
 
Svenskaflicka said:
Because of my impeckable sense of grammar? ;)

Yes, I realise it's your second language Svenska, (better than lots of English speaking people's too) but that typo gives the word impeccable so much more meaning.

Reminds me that I always question the word impeach. Why would any president want to be peachable anyway?
 
In a rare burst of sincerity, my thanks to everyone who responded, especially Svenskaflicka. :)

Thanks to all those earnest efforts, the outer boundaries of the vast wasteland that constitutes my knowledge of other cultures has been contracted, though I fear only slightly.

Now I'm waiting for teams in the NFL (US pro football) to adopt something similar as part of their pre-game ritual.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
 
Last edited:
Rumple Foreskin said:
...Now I'm waiting for teams in the NFL (US pro football) to adopt something similar as part of their pre-game ritual.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:

They'd probably get cheerleaders to do the Haka and thus miss the whole point... :D

Og
 
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