can minors hold hands, kiss, cuddle on this site?

[joy_of_cooking]

(Not arguing the rule, only trying to understand it so I can obey it)

I have a couple in high school. They're not going to do any sex until they're eighteen, but can they say they're dating, hold hands, kiss, and cuddle before that? Is it okay to be explicit that they're waiting for their birthdays, or are they not even allowed to acknowledge what it is they might start doing on their birthdays?

Laurel's quoted in the stickied thread as saying they can't "have sexual thoughts," and I'm trying to figure out whether that means I can't give a blow-by-blow account of their wet dreams and sexual fantasies (not a problem! totally understand how that'd be outside the spirit of the rule) or I can't even have them come out of a kiss breathing hard.

Again, this is a question about what the rule is, not what it ought to be.

 

[StillStunned]

Without claiming to know Laurel's thoughts on the matter, I'd say that anything you wouldn't be embarrassed to do in front of your grandmother is safe.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

A three-year-old kissing granny on the cheek is not sexual and would pass. Teenage friends meeting at the airport with a brief, happy ‘welcome home’ peck might get through. A pair of under-18s who know what sex is about but who are preserving their virginities by just-short-of-the-line French kissing and fondling - not likely. Same couple merely holding hands on a walk would get through.

 

[KeithD]

Write it up and submit it and see if it flies. If not, adjust it if you can/want to and try it again.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I have a couple in high school. They're not going to do any sex until they're eighteen, but can they say they're dating, hold hands, kiss, and cuddle before that? Is it okay to be explicit that they're waiting for their birthdays, or are they not even allowed to acknowledge what it is they might start doing on their birthdays?

That's right on the borderline and if they're explicit that they're waiting for their birthdays, kissing and cuddling, I would guess not. Too close.

On the other hand, two minutes after their 18th birthday's is totally acceptable, so you could have them sitting there watching the clock and the moment that second hand ticks over, they go for it like minks on heat. That'd actually be pretty funny too if you played it for laughs LOL.

 

[lovecraft68]

Where's Simon?
Here we go again.

A blow by blow of a sexual dream will get you the boot. You could say "I've been dreaming about her since..." and leave it at that.

I used a line "He'd been crushing on her since he was old enough to know what he was looking at." establishes he's had a thing for the older woman, but no details.

Even a kiss can be problematic beyond, "I was 16 the first time I kissed her."

Now those are responses based on whether or not the site feels like paying attention, or caring the day your story shows up in the file.

Truth is? Who the hell knows, so you could go with Keith and just give it a shot and see what happens.

But that wet dream thing is not something I would try.

 

[SimonDoom]

(Not arguing the rule, only trying to understand it so I can obey it)

I have a couple in high school. They're not going to do any sex until they're eighteen, but can they say they're dating, hold hands, kiss, and cuddle before that? Is it okay to be explicit that they're waiting for their birthdays, or are they not even allowed to acknowledge what it is they might start doing on their birthdays?

Laurel's quoted in the stickied thread as saying they can't "have sexual thoughts," and I'm trying to figure out whether that means I can't give a blow-by-blow account of their wet dreams and sexual fantasies (not a problem! totally understand how that'd be outside the spirit of the rule) or I can't even have them come out of a kiss breathing hard.

Again, this is a question about what the rule is, not what it ought to be.

This is my approach to a question like this, trying to answer you honestly about what IS and not what OUGHT to be.

I think your passage should clear two hurdles.

One hurdle is whether the scene is sexual from the point of view of the characters. If it is, then it won't fly.

The other more subtle hurdle is to consider the scene you are writing from the point of view of readers. The Site, I gather, is trying NOT to be a destination for a certain class of readers who want underage content. Is your scene going to be seen in a sexual or erotic way by readers even if what you describe is not explicitly sexual? Be honest with yourself about this. What is the purpose of your scene? What is its appeal?

If you write a scene about two 16 year olds who aren't doing anything sexual but are experiencing feelings of sexual longing for one another, for instance, I don't think that would pass muster. Just avoid that kind of thing altogether.

 

[NotWise]

If you're trying to push Laurel's limits, then you might have found a way. I remember a story that was rejected because the under-18 protagonist had sexual thought when he peeked at his neighbor over the garden wall. If it were my story, I wouldn't go where you want to go unless I was prepared to have it bounced back to me.

But it's all in how its written. My story My Sister's Wedding makes it clear that an underage sexual relationship existed, but it describes it from a mostly emotional perspective rather than a physical one.

 

[stickygirl]

 

[Bamagan]

I think if the bulk of the story has the main characters as 17 or whatever, and the climax (haha) is them getting it on when they're 18, it would be rejected on the same premise as denying aged-up fanfic and the like. The more time you spend characterizing them 'in the present' as minors, the less likely it is to be accepted. A few paragraphs to say they've been dating for years might be okay, but probably not hundreds or thousands of words about how they're waiting for their birthday(s) to come/cum.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I'd argue that, irrespective of what can actually get past Laurel, if you're writing erotica specifically, the story should start on the younger member of the couple's eighteenth birthday at the earliest. And then about twenty words in have one character say "Isn't it lovely that we waited." and leave it at that.

If you're writing chapter and chapters with that birthday looming and the character's inner voice being bleeped out whenever anything that would get a 17yo's motor running flashes across their mind (which is basically anything in proximity to the other sex) then it's just going to be frustrating for the reader.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

Here's a sample of the kind of thing I want to do. It's mostly about foreshadowing her eventual self-identification as a dominant lesbian.

Their first kiss was almost an accident. They were in the library, looking for a book for a project of his. They both reached for it at the same time. He over-balanced and put his hand on the bookcase above her for support. She saw the movement and, turning to look, found his face barely an inch above hers.

Their eyes locked. She would later wonder what she saw in those dilated pupils that had convinced her he was about to go for it. Brandon wasn't that kind of guy. In that moment, though, there was no doubt in her mind that he was thinking of kissing her.

The idea was intolerable. Her skin crawled at the thought of him bearing down on her, forcing his mouth onto hers. But this was Brandon. She was the one who had asked to be his girlfriend. That had been months ago, and they still hadn't done more than hold hands and cuddle. Didn't she owe him a kiss?

If so, she was determined to do it on her own terms. Screwing up her courage, she rose up onto her toes and pressed her lips to his. His lips were warm, soft, and surprisingly dry. She kept them firmly shut, and he didn't try for more than she offered. It wasn't that bad.

He was the one who broke it up. He pushed away from her, glancing left and right. Tall shelves of books stretched in either direction. They could hear people to either side of them, but their row was empty.

"I don't think anyone saw that," he said. "But maybe we should pick someplace more discreet next time."

"Yeah, good idea," she agreed. She grabbed the book and they moved on.

That night she found her thoughts returning to that moment. She had expected excitement, maybe even a flutter in her stomach. She had heard other girls talking about that. Instead she mostly felt relieved that she had regained control of the situation, that she had found a way to thread the needle between what a guy might reasonably expect of his girlfriend and what she had been willing to provide. The mismatch was unsettling.

Is that sufficiently unsexy?

 

[intim8]

On the other hand, two minutes after their 18th birthday's is totally acceptable, so you could have them sitting there watching the clock and the moment that second hand ticks over, they go for it like minks on heat. That'd actually be pretty funny too if you played it for laughs LOL.

I've actually written bits of a story along those lines. Not for publication, just for fun. It was all about making fun of the riduculous bright lines the law draws, but obviously, here it would be crossing the line the site has, and worse, appearing to ridicule it as well. Which I don't want to do. I completely understand and even agree with the line here, with a few quibbles.

The story had a couple not just bouncing over that line in time, but on state borders. They go up to the state line in some remote woods, get naked, then hop back and forth across the imaginary line in the dirt. On one side, what they're doing is perfectly legal and acceptable. On the other, three feet away, the exact same acts are not just illegal, but depraved and sick.

There's one scene where a girl is waiting for her 18th birthday, to the second like you say. Prior to it, she has no idea what sex is, has never even heard of a penis or thought of one, never had the slightest urges or desires, wouldn't even know what those were. Once the clock ticks over, she instantaneously has it all, like some divine revelation, and is suddenly both insatiable and highly skilled. I thought about having her, in that one second, suddenly grow breasts and pubic hair, like some shape shifting alien.

But yeah, I agree, the OP's scenario is unlikely to be accepted here. And if it got through on a test run, more likely it was an oversight than an explicit approval. I wouldn't even try.

 

[alohadave]

Nice marmot.

 

[nice90sguy]

My experience is diffeernt than other authors here: I have two stories here which describe erotic episodes occurring bween pre-adolecents -- I won't link the stories or quote the passages, but they're out there for anyone to read and, should they choose to, to report. But, if I think about them, they'd pass @StillStunned's excellent "grandma test" -- because the eroticisim (a sexy play-fight turning into face-sitting) occurred in the kids' heads, and, being fully clothed, pants covered any visible evidence.

 

[lovecraft68]

My experience is diffeernt than other authors here: I have two stories here which describe erotic episodes occurring bween pre-adolecents -- I won't link the stories or quote the passages, but they're out there for anyone to read and, should they choose to, to report. But, if I think about them, they'd pass @StillStunned's excellent "grandma test" -- because the eroticisim (a sexy play-fight turning into face-sitting) occurred in the kids' heads, and, being fully clothed, pants covered any visible evidence.

Still shouldn't have passed based on the rules and other stories that were booted. I'm not reporting anything, I learned a long time ago it really doesn't matter much, and I don't have an issue with what you did anyway, other than this proves the inconsistent, and biased at times, method of enforcement.

 

[THBGato]

Is that sufficiently unsexy?

I'd say so. Definitely makes me expect her to turn out to be a lesbian!

 

[TarnishedPenny]

One hurdle is whether the scene is sexual from the point of view of the characters. If it is, then it won't fly.

As usual, Simon, you’ve hit the nail on the head.

 

[SimonDoom]

Here's a sample of the kind of thing I want to do. It's mostly about foreshadowing her eventual self-identification as a dominant lesbian.



Is that sufficiently unsexy?

This is my opinion, based solely on my understanding of the Site's rules and how I THINK the Site interprets them. It's not based on what I personally think is right or wrong. It's just my opinion of what I think the Site would do based on its rules.

If I were the Site, applying its stated rules, I would reject this as clearly unacceptable. The whole point of the rule is to avoid sexual or even sort-of, kind-of sexual conduct involving people under 18. You just don't go there.

Saying something like "I had a crush on her from the age of 16" would be fine.

But describing in detail an intimate interaction between two people under 18 seems very clearly to me to be in violation of the Site's rules. If I were working for Laurel and trying to interpret and follow her rules, I would reject this. It doesn't even seem to me to be a close call.

It violates my interpretation of the rule in BOTH ways:

Number 1, you know the two characters in the scene are thinking about more than just kissing.

Number 2, some readers will got off on the idea of two under-18 people kissing like this.

It fails both tests.

I interpret the rule as you should just completely avoid writing about characters who are under 18, except in a very cursory, quick sense. I don't think this satisfies the rule.

 

[AchtungNight]

It’s hit or miss. I mentioned a character waiting till she was 18 while having lustful ideas at a younger age in a couple stories and got them rejected for it. They’re available on AO3 but not here. Then I mentioned characters were dating in high school but doing the “jailbait wait” in a couple other stories and those passed. I think the key was I acknowledged they were having sexual thoughts but didn’t describe those thoughts explicitly. A fine line to walk, your choice whether to risk it.

 

[Bazzle]

The site seems happy with flash backs from an adult perspective of what happened. But not in real time?

 

[LoveLiving]

(Not arguing the rule, only trying to understand it so I can obey it)

I have a couple in high school. They're not going to do any sex until they're eighteen, but can they say they're dating, hold hands, kiss, and cuddle before that? Is it okay to be explicit that they're waiting for their birthdays, or are they not even allowed to acknowledge what it is they might start doing on their birthdays?

Laurel's quoted in the stickied thread as saying they can't "have sexual thoughts," and I'm trying to figure out whether that means I can't give a blow-by-blow account of their wet dreams and sexual fantasies (not a problem! totally understand how that'd be outside the spirit of the rule) or I can't even have them come out of a kiss breathing hard.

Again, this is a question about what the rule is, not what it ought to be.

If you so desperately feel the urge or need to write about children and their sexual exploits, you definitely need help.
Make them 18 years old and saving themselves for marriage.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Number 1, you know the two characters in the scene are thinking about more than just kissing.

Number 2, some readers will got off on the idea of two under-18 people kissing like this.

It fails both tests.

I interpret the rule as you should just completely avoid writing about characters who are under 18, except in a very cursory, quick sense. I don't think this satisfies the rule.

I'm with Simon on this, I think it's too close to the line, and pushes it.

This sentence:

Her skin crawled at the thought of him bearing down on her, forcing his mouth onto hers.

is sexual.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

It's easier just to adhere to the rules here, than try and skirt around them, which is a varied success. Good thing is there are other sites more liberal. Whatever doesn't fly here will most likely be fine on Lush--you could start their sexual exploration at fourteen(I believe) over there.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Searching on "childhood sweethearts" might be helpful in finding examples of what's been allowed in the past. I get the impression Lit has become a bit more picky on this point lately, so I'd weight newer examples more heavily than older.

https://search.literotica.com/?query="childhood sweethearts"

A visit to her house when I was 14 was the last time I saw her or heard from her for quite some time. I'm sure things like that happen to everyone. But I was never able to forget her.

It didn't help that she was the 'it' girl when puberty hit me. She became the star of every budding sexual fantasy I had. I would just lie in bed and let my mind wander from fantasy to fantasy for hours, wherever my inexperienced teenage mind could take me. Maybe that's why it became ingrained in me that somehow we'd be together again. [2011, not sure that would fly now]

When we were in third grade, I remember stopping in the park by the fountain in our hometown where we promised that we would love each other forever. [2021]

Casey and I had been boyfriend and girlfriend before we even knew what boy friend and girlfriend were. We had sat beside each other in kindergarten, that is where it started and at twenty-five, we were still together. [2020]

We were never alone enough to explore our growing chemistry which didn't matter as Stuart wanted to wait until my 18th birthday for us to go all the way and I was fine with this, spending time getting to know the boy I had fallen in love with.[2020]