Can familiarity/intimacy serve as a challenge for developing Doms?

[Mr. Mann]

Okay... in my searching and pondering and overall personal growth in exploring various elements of BDSM (etc.) recently, I've run into a few challenges.

I want to be everything my wife needs and her recent realization of, and disclosure concerning, her submissive desires and needs has prompted me to explore, learn and grow.

It occurs to me that, in our particular case, it was a fundamentally stable and intimate marriage which partly allowed both my wife to come to these realizations, take the risk of disclosing them, and also allowed me to both accept them and also enjoy meeting them.

OTOH, while our closeness has enable this situation... it seems that it also serves as a challenge for me.

I find it hard to "act like a Dom" with someone who knows me so well. I enjoy it. I get into it. But it is also difficult to sort of break out of other behavior patterns, too.

I was thinking about those who are active in "the scene" and who are a Dom or Sub to other people whom they aren't in a close intiamte relationship with. At first that this was hard to imagine, then it occured to me that in some ways, it might actually be easier someone who didn't know me as well, and in my mind, more likely to accept me in that role.

I mean, I try to be all "Domly" according to what is right for my wife, as well as myself. But then again, it's hard to "let myself go" because she already knows all my other "non-Domly" aspects, too.

Any thoughts?

 

[catalina_francisco]

No Dominant is perfect, despite what a lot of them will try and tell you. The best relationships IMHO are the ones where both can accept the imperfections and unDomly or unsubly aspects of each others character, along with those relevent ones they seek to develop in their role. Gives it a much more realistic feel, and opens exploration further because there are no expectations that everything will always be perfect, always go according to plan. Ironing out the problems then becomes a joint efffort instead of one expecting the other to provide all the necessary ingredients. Have fun.

Catalina

 

[Mr. Mann]

True.

However... (as an illustration) I keep thinking of an episode of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" where Larry goes to the beach with his wife and happens to run into his pale, not-in-great-shape, middle-aged male Psychiatrist who is wearing a thong swimsuit.

This less than flaterring mental image causes Larry to see his Psychiatrist differently. Ultimately, he has to find another.

I feel sort of like I'm in a similar position. My wife has seen me in my dorky looking thong plenty, and I keep thinking that it is hard for her to accept me as the kind, wise, authority figure even though she wants that and does see those aspects of my personality. I keep thinking, "I can't do THAT! She won't take me seriously!"

It's not a HUGE thing. We're enjoying the journey and laughing about things that don't go as planned.

Still though, it is an interesting aspect of all this.

 

[alice_underneath]

Mr. Mann,

I find myself wondering how you would define "acting Domly".... and how your wife would define it as well.

In reading many of the BDSM stories here at Lit (and much of the jesting banter that takes place on these threads), one develops an image of a Dom as a guy with a hard-ass look on his face and a crop in his hand. He is arrogant, infallible, adept with all manner of 'toys', and the type of guy who instantly turns all women into quivering, adoring, compliant sluts with no limits whatsoever on what they will do to please him.

He is not real. To me, this "Dom" is a cartoon character. He makes me roll my eyes or giggle, but he does not arouse.

I am aroused by a real human being. A Man who is occasionally brilliant, but at times foolish. A Man who tries very hard, but sometimes slips up. A Man who acknowledges His own mistakes, and accepts me when I acknowledge mine.

It is not the absence of foibles and frailty that make Him worthy of respect in my eyes..... it is His ability to overcome them in the moments when He shines.

It occurs to me that, in our particular case, it was a fundamentally stable and intimate marriage which partly allowed both my wife to come to these realizations, take the risk of disclosing them, and also allowed me to both accept them and also enjoy meeting them.

It does not sound as if your wife is seeking a cartoon character. It sounds to me as if she is seeking permission to openly acknowledge the respect and trust and love she feels for you.

She wants you to accept her, kneeling at your feet. She wants to defer to your authority, and to serve you. She wants to openly and formally submit to you, the dominant man she loves. Not a parody of a dominant man ripped from the pages of porn.

You - Mr. Mann - the human being.

Alice

 

[BeachGurl2]

True.

However... (as an illustration) I keep thinking of an episode of "Curb Your Enthusiasm" where Larry goes to the beach with his wife and happens to run into his pale, not-in-great-shape, middle-aged male Psychiatrist who is wearing a thong swimsuit.

This less than flaterring mental image causes Larry to see his Psychiatrist differently. Ultimately, he has to find another.

I feel sort of like I'm in a similar position. My wife has seen me in my dorky looking thong plenty, and I keep thinking that it is hard for her to accept me as the kind, wise, authority figure even though she wants that and does see those aspects of my personality. I keep thinking, "I can't do THAT! She won't take me seriously!"

It's not a HUGE thing. We're enjoying the journey and laughing about things that don't go as planned.

Still though, it is an interesting aspect of all this.

I'm certainly no expert in any of this, but it seems to me that you may have the best of both worlds. You already have a wonderfully intimate relationship with your wife, including an incredible amount of trust and respect. The fact that you're both able to laugh when things don't go as planned says a lot about your acceptance of each other.

Just a suggestion from my experience. Instead of wondering if your wife thinks you look silly (or whatever) when you are being "domly", have you tried asking her what she sees when she looks at you? I'm betting that what she sees and what you think she sees are two very different things. If you can begin to think of yourself through her eyes rather than your own, your vision of things may change significantly. Instead of imagining that she thinks you look silly, you'll be thinking that she thinks you look hot and sexy. And you'll start to feel hot and sexy. And you'll start to see changes in the way you behave.

I spent a long time seeing myself as physically unacceptable because I spent 10 years in a marriage with someone who constantly told me I was fat - at the time, I was a size 10-12 so not what many would consider truly fat. It took a long time to be able to see myself as others saw me. I now dress differently and carry myself differently because I was able to see myself through someone else's eyes. And now I feel sexy, where before I just felt dumpy because that's what I was told I was.

Like I said, just a thought. It worked for me, so maybe it will work for you. Good luck with the journey. I think your wife is a very lucky woman.

 

[graceanne]

Do you expect the perfect sub from your wife? Does her inperfections make it harder for you to dom her? Then why would your inperfections make it harder for her to sub to you? In that movie the man who had to find the new psychologist didn't love his shrink. That's why he wasn't able to overlook his inperfections. Love makes up for a lot of things.

 

[Mr. Mann]

Alice,

Thank you very much for your warm and thoughtful reply.

You are absolutely right. I know this is all in my head.

It's sort of a "letting go" kind of thing. Part of why it is a little difficult for me is that I *don't* take myself all that seriously.

So.. I guess on an intellectual level, I'm aware that all of what you so eloquently said is true.

But in that moment, it's like I choke a little.

I want to adopt a kind but stern, yet loving voice and say, "Your tone of voice earlier wasn't appreciated. I want you to take of your clothes and stand in the corner with your hands on your head. Think about yor attitude and why you need the spanking that I am about to give you. You've been very naughty and for your own good, I am gong to have to punish you."

That's what I'm WANTING to do... but then this voice in the back of my head pipes up: I can't say that. Ten minutes ago she was watching me trim my nose hairs."

I can go ahead and say what I want. When I do, it is well received. But still... sometimes I choke or hesitate a little, and ten I feel bad for not pushing myself to go ahead and do it. Does that make sense?

 

[Mr. Mann]

BeachGurl2,

Thank you very much for your thoughts. I think that is a very good suggestions and I will give that a try!

 

[Mr. Mann]

graceanne,

You are absolutely right. Intellectually I know what you are saying is true. OTOH, it is still a little thing that is there in the back of my head.

I've just got to get more comfortable with things... get used to expressing myself in ways that I'm not used to.

 

[incubus'_sub]

LOL, what you are describing is actually the most common "problem" in real life BDSM as opposed to those who just fantasize about it or do it online.

In reality, noone feels, looks & acts Domly or subby every minute of the day which is usually more concerned with earning a living, looking after the kids & deciding what to have for dinner. Throw in moods, a bad day at work & niggly health problems & the difficulties compound.

On the positive side, you both have the desire & you know each other well. The trick is to use that knowledge of each other, seize the chance when you see it & assume the "role". The mutual desire to play it out will take over.

We've found that this is better than trying to plan every session. All good plans can come unstuck if someone comes home feeling cranky or tired or headachy. Provisional plans are good in that they can increase pleasure through anticipation & you can move on to that after you become more comfortable in your "role", but to begin with, look for the little hints that play would be welcome right now and learn to assume the persona like an actor. I suspect you will be quite Domly enough. Have fun.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I think you will find this a fun challenge before you. Sure it will feel odd and awkward initially but as with anything, in time it will come much more naturally. You will find getting into the headspace will come easier and easier each time you indulge. So I say go for the gusto and do not look back.

The best part is the broad world before the two of you to explore together. Have fun.

 

[FurryFury]

It's only my opinion but I think sometimes you have to sort of go ahead and do what makes you uncomfortable for a while before it feels more comfortable. I have a sort of fake it until you make it philosophy.

The other night I felt that I had failed in some ways as a top to my husband. After discussing it with him I felt like he had a much better time than I ever suspected. That made me feel soooo much better.

I know he is not comfortable doing many of the things he does to me such as spanking me with thorny stems, hot wax or just taking what he wants but he does it and finds it makes me very happy.

I don't think it would be easier to feel like a Dom with a near stranger. In fact, in my vision of BDSM you have to know the other person pretty well.

The reason I think about adding in another person however is that neither one of us really wants to be in charge.

I'm never going to get that Dom-med feeling nor is he with each other because we are not and don't want to be Dominant.

*shrugs*

Now I don't know I'll ever have the courage to be with a third party but in the meantime our journey together, though not perfect, is wonderful!

Fury

 

[Joe Schmoe]

No Dominant is perfect, despite what a lot of them will try and tell you.

Now now. Some of us are. Even when I have made a mistake it has always been a perfect mistake.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Now now. Some of us are. Even when I have made a mistake it has always been a perfect mistake.

"superb !!!!!"
omg can't breath...

 

[MechaBlade]

I find it hard to "act like a Dom" with someone who knows me so well. I enjoy it. I get into it. But it is also difficult to sort of break out of other behavior patterns, too.

I find it easier to be Domly around those that know me (perhaps because it's never a wife or fiancee type) because I better know her limits and expectations.

However, an interesting conundrum is that the more I like and respect a woman, especially if she's somewhat shy and kindhearted, the harder it is for me to inflict pain upon her.

Perhaps this is because I am a young Dom.

 

[shy slave]

Now now. Some of us are. Even when I have made a mistake it has always been a perfect mistake.

Perfectly said.

Made me laugh out loud

 

[Mr. Mann]

Cool.

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. I appreciate the help. It helps to know that I'm on the right track.

 

[alice_underneath]

Alice,

Thank you very much for your warm and thoughtful reply.

Mr. Mann,

You are quite welcome. Thank you for starting a thread with a topic to which I can relate. In many ways, I am currently in your wife's position, and my Husband is in yours.

Part of why it is a little difficult for me is that I *don't* take myself all that seriously.

To be honest, I think this will end up working to your advantage. You are far more likely to set reasonable goals for yourself, and far less likely to end up looking like an ass.

I want to adopt a kind but stern, yet loving voice and say, "Your tone of voice earlier wasn't appreciated. I want you to take of your clothes and stand in the corner with your hands on your head. Think about yor attitude and why you need the spanking that I am about to give you. You've been very naughty and for your own good, I am gong to have to punish you."

That's what I'm WANTING to do... but then this voice in the back of my head pipes up: I can't say that. Ten minutes ago she was watching me trim my nose hairs."

My god. A man who acknowledges his own imperfections, and employs self-deprecating humor to boot. Without a trace of sarcasm, I say: How delicious.

I can go ahead and say what I want. When I do, it is well received. But still... sometimes I choke or hesitate a little, and ten I feel bad for not pushing myself to go ahead and do it. Does that make sense?

Yes, of course it makes sense. Though they may not be willing to say so, I suspect that every single Dom on this board has had similar experiences.

Show me a guy who claims he has never faltered in his decisiveness or wavered in his self-confidence, and I'll show you a guy who is either a liar or a dangerous fool.

Mr. Mann, I would like to make a prediction. Each time your wife openly demonstrates her submission to you, you will become a bit more confident in your dominance. Each time you experience success, you will become bolder. This, in turn, will make your wife more comfortable and compliant in her submission, which will inspire your dominance even further.

Her submission will feed your dominance, and vice versa, in an upwardly sloping spiral of mental, emotional, and physical intimacy. Because it is real (not fantasy), the spiral will not be perfect or entirely smooth. But it will be an upwardly sloping spiral nonetheless.

Alice

 

[Mr. Mann]

Wow.

Thanks VERY much. I apprecaite your kind compliments and insights.

 

[OctoberNite]

Mr Mann,
I'm a total newbie here (see post 1). I just had to say that I wish I had the guts to tell my husband what your wife so easily told you. I have to agree with the other ladies who posted here. I wouldn't mind it at all if mine would just take over, even if he did just trim is nose hairs! LOL

Thanks for giving me a thread I felt comfortable enough to get my "cherry" popped! ;-)

 

[Mr. Mann]

Well, welcome to Lit OctoberNite, although I am new here myself.

Please don't beat yourself up over the difficulty in telling your husband.

It was VERY difficult for my wife to share these things with me. She first had to go through the process of realizing things for herself. Taking the enormous risk of sharing them with me was a huge step for her.

I realize that she must trust me a great deal and that she was risking an awful lot in telling me. I've been entrusted with something that is both a precious gift, as well as a serious responsibility. (A fun responsibility, but a responsibility nonetheless.)

I hope you continue to feel comfortable here. Everyone here has been very welcoming to me. There's a ton of insightful and practical information here. I hope you continue your journey and find even more intimacy and happiness in your relationship.

 

[Quint]

I really do regret that T, my dominant half, doesn't post here. If he did, you all would know him for the terrific goofball that he is. The great thing about love, as so many have said here, is that respect isn't ever lost because of things like nose hair or voice cracking or morning breath. Yeah, my funnybone gets struck at the worst possible moments sometimes by some unrelated sight or event, but that never lasts. And the end product is so much tastier with a pinch of salt than with nothing but sugar.

 

[jadefirefly]

Mr. Mann...

If I didn't know better, I'd accuse you of really being my SO! Your comments and sense of humor remind me a great deal of him.

Our relationship is fairly new, and he is new to being asked/expected/wanted to take control in the bedroom. Being bossy is second-nature to him, but this is a very different environment.

*He*, though, took to it like a fish to water. Surprise surprise. I, on the other hand, felt silly at first.

For about 2 minutes.

I think the advantage we had, though, is that he knew about my preferences and tendencies before we became involved. Yours seems to have come out after you had a solid relationship.

I think the end result won't be any different... it'll just take you a little while to get used to it. IMO, it's absolutely no different than having sex for the first time... it's awkward, you're not quite sure what goes where, and it might get messy or silly now and then, but you laugh it off, learn from it, and before you know it it doesn't even require any thinking.

And isn't it a *lot* of fun, then?

Practice makes perfect, they say... so go practice!

 

[MastrJ]

I'm in a slightly similar situation. I recently got back together with an old girlfriend. Someone I had once seriously considered proposing to. It's now over ten years later and we find ourselves both available. We never really broke up way back then either. She just took a job that forced her to move about 1000 miles away.

I've always habored a soft spot in my heart for her, but I didn't think it was reciprocated. It took another couple we used to double-date with to get fed up with each of us and kind of sit us down.

Our first night back together was a little awkward to start. It's been over a decade, she's given birth to twins, I've been married and divorced. In the end, it went really well and felt really right. REALLY RIGHT.

Now, the 'sticky point' is that I've since got interested and involved in BDSM. She's also interested and willing to explore. I just find myself holding back at the idea of her being my submissive. (It did work the little we tried on the second night, but that's a different matter.) When we dated before, we were a couple of college kids that while willing to experiment weren't always willing to say what we REALLY wanted to explore. It's just kind of hard to think of the woman that I loved for being willing to stand up to me in college and tell me I was full of shit, wants to be my submissive. Our arguments were somewhat legendary in college and were usually just a form of fore-play for the both of us.

So, now that I've rambled on quite a bit...

What else do people have to say on this subject? What's been said so far is very illuminating, but I'd like to hear more.

 

[FurryFury]

I'm in a slightly similar situation. I recently got back together with an old girlfriend. Someone I had once seriously considered proposing to. It's now over ten years later and we find ourselves both available. We never really broke up way back then either. She just took a job that forced her to move about 1000 miles away.

I've always habored a soft spot in my heart for her, but I didn't think it was reciprocated. It took another couple we used to double-date with to get fed up with each of us and kind of sit us down.

Our first night back together was a little awkward to start. It's been over a decade, she's given birth to twins, I've been married and divorced. In the end, it went really well and felt really right. REALLY RIGHT.

Now, the 'sticky point' is that I've since got interested and involved in BDSM. She's also interested and willing to explore. I just find myself holding back at the idea of her being my submissive. (It did work the little we tried on the second night, but that's a different matter.) When we dated before, we were a couple of college kids that while willing to experiment weren't always willing to say what we REALLY wanted to explore. It's just kind of hard to think of the woman that I loved for being willing to stand up to me in college and tell me I was full of shit, wants to be my submissive. Our arguments were somewhat legendary in college and were usually just a form of fore-play for the both of us.

So, now that I've rambled on quite a bit...

What else do people have to say on this subject? What's been said so far is very illuminating, but I'd like to hear more.

I see no reason she can't still have frank exchanges with you ie: that you are full of shit when you are outside of the times you are having D/s goings on.

If you can't communicate frankly at times I don't think any relationship will work.

I'd say go slow and enjoy trying things together. Not ever fuck has to be the D/s fantasy fuck of a life time. Some can be nilla. Some can be make up after talking shit to one another. You know what I mean? It's ALL good as long as you both enjoy the journey and get what you want in my book.

That's my two cents.

Fury