Can erotica still be good with a sad ending?

[Chicklet]

I'm here for feedback on my latest story.

A Short Demonstration

some specific questions...starting out with the phone...was that too weird? should it have gotten hotter? should she have been satisfied?

 

[hiddenself]

some specific questions...starting out with the phone...was that too weird? should it have gotten hotter? should she have been satisfied?

I don't know what to say other than that it did make a big impression, but one that's difficult to describe.

OK. Above all, it was quite disturbing. I have a very particular view of the past and the story somehow managed to hit really badly.

I'm not saying it was a bad story. Far, far from it. I suppose it could even happen (if the people involved are really phsychologically fucked up). It was also very well written with only a couple of awkward stretches like Todd's statement

“Katie, I have to admit that I had reasons to invite you here.”
(really? in case that wasn't obvious!)

Did I find it erotic? Absolutely not. But that wasn't because of the sad ending. Rather, the problem was that I hated the characters (their lack of emotional caring about each other) and could not identify with the setup.

The telephone scene was perfect. I've had similar experience (just not with that particular motivation ) and that's exactly how it goes and feels. Of course, I thought that Kate was too easy and that Todd showed shallowness of affect... but I was not put off.

On to my main issue -- characters. Supposedly, Kate's and Todd's relationship was once rather serious, important, loving (?)

Why then, does he come back and pursues something like this in such a cold way? There is no indication that he sees her as person rather than a prop, that he cares about not hurting her. His hesitation suggests fear of being embarassed and possibly rejected, rather than concern about her emotional confusion and trouble. “Rachel, this is my friend Kate. Katie, this is the love of my life, Rachel.” Ugh -- talk about shallow and crass.

Now, Kate's reaction is even more disturbing. Why does she agree to this so-called experiment under these circumstances? She may be a sub but that's simply not it, it's not the justificaiton, it can't explain it. She agrees because she is emotionally self-destructive (and that has nothing to do with D/s and stuff). She consents to an emotionally abusive situation, not to a D/s experiment or a threesome or whatever. That's pathetic.

Rachel comes across as somewhat fake. She shows way too much eagerness and initiative for a newbie. The context does not justify her rather active participation in the setup of the scene. Her lack of curiosity about this strange old girlfriend (love?) of her soon-to-be-husband is perplexing. I suppose she could be as shallow as Todd -- they deserve each other.

Don't get me wrong. You painted two very unpalatable characters (Todd & Kate) very consistently and the third one was not a big miss either. Great job, if that's what you were trying to do. But I simply can't consider erotic a selfish iditot's idea of a sexual experiment, or an enabler's meek acquiescence to it, or the sexual excitement of a detached... well, you get my drift.

So, it all depends on what you set out to achieve. Is this what you were trying to get across? If so, it was magnificently done! A very original story about a rather twisted intersection of the lives of three people with serious emotional issues. Appalling, not a happy read, but I stil consider it a clear success. It gets a 7 from me.

But I somehow think that you were trying for something more standard, just a twist on a rather timid D/s threesome story. If so, to me, it is a clear failure. It gets a 1.

Take your pick and I'll log the vote.

hs

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I thought it was a good story. This particular kink doesn't domuch for me, but I could see where you found it arousing and others might too.

The ending wasn't as "sad" as I'd supposed it was going to be. When I first saw the title of this thread, I assumed the story was going to involve the death of one of the characters. We were just discussing whether death takes the thrill out of erotica in "The Storm" thread, and I think it does. But in this case the ending doesn't lessen the erotic impact of what happened. The sex is mildly sadistic; the ending is in line with that.

As for the telephone opening, it's not so weird as it is hackneyed. The opening phone call has become a common device that allows the author to fill in a lot of background while avoiding missing any action. More about this below.

What bothered me about this story is motivation. I simply couldn't believe (1) she would go meet her old Master and his fiance, and (2) that she would agree to do this, especially when she learned (3) thatthere would be no sex between her and Todd. Her excuse, that she would do anything just to be near him once more, just doesn't wash for me. Maybe if she were more of a party girl out looking for a good time then I could believe she'd throw in with them for a night of fun. But she's so obviously desperately in love with him that I just can't see her agreeing to do this.

Nor could I buy Rachel's burning desire to see another woman tied up while not being tied up herself at all. She might be interested in seeing another woman in bondage, but not as obsessed with it as she appears to be here.

There's one way I could see this all coming about: that's if Katie had changed enough that she wanted to make Todd eat his heart out about what he was losing by marrying Rachel. If she'd been working out and had developed a fabulous figure or something like that, then I could see her wanting to do this as a way of getting back at Todd, and that would explain why she agrees to meet them at the restaurant as well: to show off.

I think you could have started the story at the restaurant, with Katie coming in. Rachel might have been a surprise that Todd hadn't told Katie about for fear that Katie wouldn't show. Once Katie was there, she'd have to deal with it.

Just an idea.

It did seem to take a long time to get started, probably because you had so many emotions for Katie to deal with and come to terms with. But for all that her final feelings about the scene were still unclear. She wanted Todd, she was scared, she was dizzy with pleasure and lust, resentful, jealous. That's a hell of a lot of stuff to handle, and the fact that she keeps on turning everything over in her mind doesn't help.

My only other beef is when Katie hears the sounds of their lips meeting, and the sounds "...of lips wrapping around cock, flesh touching flesh..." As far as I know, that's pretty damned quiet. In all fairness, you do go on to talk about sucking sounds etc. But still, lips around cock don't make much of a sound.

Still, good story. Good idea.

---dr.M.

 

[SexyChele]

I'm here for feedback on my latest story.

A Short Demonstration

some specific questions...starting out with the phone...was that too weird? should it have gotten hotter? should she have been satisfied?

Okay, this story really got to me. There were parts that I thought I was reliving my own past, and I actually had to force myself about mid-way to finish. (Not for lack of writing ability, I assure you, but due to my own emotions!) I am a sexual submissive who had a Dominant who got married. He never had me meet her, though, as she was not into it.

Now, story. No, I didn't think the phone call was too weird. I've received a couple of those myself and I think you captured the torment of emotions very well. The only problem I might have is that you seem to intimate that the ending of the relationship was almost amicable, yet during the story, I am picking up it was anything but. That was a little confusing at first.

I actually found the relationship between Todd and Kate to be somewhat believable. Why would a woman want to be with a man who she used to love, used to serve, used to belong to? Myriad of reasons, and one would have to understand the mind of a submissive. The idea that Kate is giving up even her own dignity just for the chance at being in the same room with Todd does speak to some sort of self-esteem issues, yes. And, no, that is not something all submissives have. But the connection between Dom and sub is overpowering. Even though it has been more than a decade since I was with the Dom I mentioned above, if he were to call me tomorrow, I would want to be with him, near him, to feel that magic just one more time. As destructive as that sounds.

Todd is an ass. He is only using Kate. He's the scum in the bottom of the barrel. And you know what? There really are men like that in the world. He is a harsh character to face. We like to think the men in fantasies are wonderful, affectionate, and good. Some aren't. Todd is the consumate "bad boy".

Kate is an emotional mess. But I liked her. I don't know why I liked her, though. Maybe because she made herself vulnerable. But I think the most powerful statement you included was when she removed the collar and cast it aside. Anyone who knows the significance of that, knows that a sub would never remove a collar herself unless she had finally had enough. I think in this, she discovers herself. I also think she understands this, and that the end had come. Again, the only confusing part was the opening we-broke-up-but-everything-was-nice-and-friendly stuff.

Rachel was completely unbelievable to me. A woman might be turned on by the idea of being bound, yes. But to ask her hubby to be to invite his ex-sub over for a demonstration? Especially when she has never ever done anything like this? Hard to swallow. Most women who have not been exposed to scening or to the lifestyle would most likely feel extremely threatened. There is a great deal of trust that occurs between Dom and sub, sometimes even more so than between husband and wife. I know that my ex-Dom's wife looked at me as her greatest rival and biggest threat - despite all the ex-girlfriends he had had. And for Rachel to just "jump in" seemed somewhat out of character. I kept expecting that it would be revealed that Rachel was actually an old hand at this, but wanted a plaything for th evening. Who knows? Maybe that was the case, we don't really know.

Should it have gotten hotter? You could have written more into it, but I think it did fine just the way it is. I love bondage stuff, so I was right at home with this one.

No, I think leaving Kate unsatisfied only intensified her feelings. A Dom means what he says. If he says a sub will not have sexual touching, it ain't gonna happen. Had Kate been satisfied sexually, she would have had hope. And she stood there and played witness to her hope dying. That loss of hope is what propelled her to leave, to walk out, to begin to grieve for a lost relationship. Leaving her unsatisfied, while maybe disappointing to some readers, fits with this story.

Overall, I liked the story, except for the character of Rachel. It is disturbing, yes, and very. But I like erotica that has twists and turns, yet still stays erotic. This story did that for me. But I don't think it is a story that everyone will like.

 

[Chicklet]

Re: Re: Can erotica still be good with a sad ending?

Is this what you were trying to get across?

The thought behind the story, for me...

I saw this girl, really unhappy, miserable even. She didn't know what was wrong with her, but she *knew* that nothing in her life could ever be right. I saw her in my head curled in a fetal position under her covers, crying, and then I went and wrote a story to get her there.

From what you say, I succeeded in what I was trying to do.

Chicklet

 

[Chicklet]

I thought it was a good story. This particular kink doesn't domuch for me, but I could see where you found it arousing and others might too.

Thanks Dr. M - lots of great advice in that little message. Thank you.

 

[Chicklet]

Re: Re: Can erotica still be good with a sad ending?

Todd is an ass. He is only using Kate. He's the scum in the bottom of the barrel. And you know what? There really are men like that in the world. He is a harsh character to face. We like to think the men in fantasies are wonderful, affectionate, and good. Some aren't. Todd is the consumate "bad boy".

Yeah, a lot of my male characters are "asses" - this has a lot to do with the men in my past.

Rachel was completely unbelievable to me.

Next time I'll try to make all my characters equally believable - I think my problem is that for me Rachel was more of a prop, something there just to make Kate feel worse.

Chicklet

 

[pocket rocket]

Sad endings

Hello Chicklet, Okay, I read it and slept on it and have been thinking about your story and feel that for me it grabbed at a different part of my brain as I read. Certainly not the usual erotic tale and though I really didn't like the male character. He is the type of guy that makes all us 'nice guys' ( and we do exsist, hee hee) look bad. The fiance' was as you said, a prop and I took her as such from the start. She could have been a cardboard cut out standing in the bedroom really for what she contributed but was perfect as someone to rip at the heartstrings of Katie. I liked Katie even though she let herself in for it all and even as a sub she should have told him to take a hike. Oh, right...then there would be no story huh.
In the end I was feeling greatly for her and you captured something dark, deep and to alot of readers, maybe a bit disturbing too. My mind is open to all things, especially, as I have started writing about subjects that a few years ago I would never have imagined myself thinking deeply about. There is always a wish to make our characters come out smelling good in the ending paragraphs. A warm after passion cuddle, a sensual touching and kissing. But afterall we live as humans and humans are not always all that pleasant. We are dark at times and you went out there and peeled back some of that to show it for what it is. Good on ya!
All in all I felt something as I read and that is to me the sign of a well crafted piece. It grabbed me and even though I have no experience at all in that style of kink it aroused the senses.
I would love it if you did something nice for Katie. Maybe a new story that will find her a more suitable loving Dom.
Anyhoo, your work is some of my favorites. I sent you a feedback way back sometime last year when I first found this site and then my computer died before I could join in myself. Look forward to more!
Thanks,
pocket rocket

 

[Dawnreaver]

Very interesting.

It was arousing in a different way when she re-lived the submissive. And as I was reading it I kept wanting it to go a different direction, for there to be something more for her...to have a better ending (even knowing it was a sad story).

It was rather like watching a movie of a train wreck where you keep hoping for a better outcome even though you know they crash.

As usual your writing was captivating...and painted very eliquently.

 

[sirhugs]

Thank you for writing this. It is brave to write honestly, and honestly, the world can be sad and cruel.

Hollywood has fallen into the trap of happy endings. Literature is the last bastion of truth.

Sure, Kate could have been 'satisfied', whatever that means, and that would be a different story. You wrote what you felt. And it felt real to me as a reader.

I agree the Rachel character was underdone. I also though the build up was long, in the sense of being wordy, and not strongly paced on page one, then " bang", the encounter revs into high gear.

The phone call was a good device, but is an eample, I think, of being to realistic. Using some journalistic licsense to abbreviate and condense would still be allowed.

I thought you had just the right degree of " hottness" - any more would have seemed artifical, since to me once the sex started, it flowed very smoothly and naturally.

 

[SubmissAngel919]

Chicklet-
i liked the story a lot. It was sad, yes, but also very erotic. i read a story here a while ago that was very sad, left me with a bad feeling, but i didn't get a bad feeling from this. It was real.
Also, i do think the character of Rachel IS believable. i could picture myself doing something like that. Yes, one may feel threatened, but in my case, if i had the curiosity, i would squelch that in order to satisfy the questions. The wanting to know and see would be too irresistable to suppress

Submissangel919

 

[honeysucklerose]

Hello Chicklet,


You're story was quite thought provoking. I found myself dwelling on it for awhile after.

I personally don't have a problem with starting with a phone call. Cliche or not it brought me right to the here and now with a lead in for some background information.

I saw a few phrases I thought were a little awkward but I think the best of them let some of those slip by.

Any more erotic would not have been suitable for the over all darkness of your theme.

The characters were quite interesting.

I took Rachel in a couple of ways. Seems she has some blossoming dom in her. Perhaps her own lack of self-esteem is soothed by being in control of her fiance's former lover. She enjoys Katies bound helplessness as shown by her fondling and even directs Todd in places showing her control over him as well. I found myself thinking there was some kind of rush for her in making love in front of his ex. Almost like there was some vengence as if by having him neglect Katie's needs she was claiming him as her own.

Todd was the shallowest of the characters. He strikes me as selfishishly cruel to his ex without any consideration for her submission what so ever. In my limited understanding of doms I've always thought of a true dom as being more sensitive to his sub especially when they are acquiescent. Perhaps I'm wrong in this.

Despite the shivers that the cruelty of the couple sent through me I was left with a sense of hope for Katie. She was so weak and easy through out the story yet at the end she pulled away from him and recognized she had lost him. Perhaps this will be her opportunity to start anew.

 

[Chicklet]

Despite the shivers that the cruelty of the couple sent through me I was left with a sense of hope for Katie. She was so weak and easy through out the story yet at the end she pulled away from him and recognized she had lost him. Perhaps this will be her opportunity to start anew.

yes, good. now she can finally forget about this asshole and move on to bigger and better things. maybe i should write another story staring a "katie" that could be her.

Chicklet

 

[SlaveMasterUK]

superb

I have to admit I really enjoyed this. As a story, it really touches everything I like to read about: fucked up people, plenty of raw emotion and a proper sad ending. Pretty much all of my stories have a sad ending. Does that say anything about my mind? Since I'm a depressive, I think it probably does.

I love sad endings in stories and erotica is just the same for me, so I don't think it lost any of its heat because of the ending. Maybe if I hadn't known it would end sad to start with, I'd have been hit harder by the end. But that's not a bad thing.

I know how it feels to have low self-esteem, and I can understand why Kate rushes back to Todd even though she knows she'll get hurt in the end. I have been there myself, although not in quite the same context. In fact several times I felt like I'd been immortalised in print as a woman!

Leaving Kate unsatisfied seemed right too, I don't think the end would have had such an impact otherwise. Those times when . Although it does lend an entirely different direction to the story; an alternative happy ending.

I have to agree that Rachel seemed a bit wooden. I kept expecting her to turn into a sadistic Dom and take over the situation completely, which would have been disturbing (upsetting almost like some non-consent stories), but equally hot. In fact it opens doors for a longer sex scene with much more besides bondage and a little bit of teasing.

Overall though I greatly enjoyed the read, tbh I'm really tired, and it kept my attention, so it must be good...

ax

 

[Chicklet]

thanks, ax. unfortunatly due to my being a depressed person and having low self esteem myself, i can write that kind of character. hugs for someone who feels the same.

 

[sirhugs]

thanks, ax. unfortunatly due to my being a depressed person and having low self esteem myself, i can write that kind of character. hugs for someone who feels the same.

first step to more self=esteeem:

- lose the " depressed person " label.

even if you striggle with depression, viewing it as defining you is defeatist.