Can anyone help me understand this?

[sweeteuphoria]

I am in the process of editing a story and in my attempt to use teh proper verb tense I'm getting more and more cofused. I'm having trouble with the difference between the past tense and the past participle of irregular verbs. Here's an example of the original text My corrections or comments immediately follow each paragraph and are in italics. I showed this to the writer of the story and she thinks there are too many times where had or has is repeated. I agree, but according to what I understood from the websites I researched, that's the way it's supposed to read. Suggestions? Comments? Please help!

"Lord William, Lady Penelope has ran off on her horse, sir," one of the stable boys reported from the doorway of William Summerfield's study.

"Lord William, Lady Penelope has ridden off on her horse, sir," one of the stable boys reported from the doorway of William Summerfield's study.

William turned to look at Jeffrey who was already headed out the door in search of Penelope. He quickly headed for the stables, found a horse and took off in the direction the stable boy told him Lady Penelope had gone.

William turned to look at Jeffrey who already went out the door in search of Penelope. He quickly headed for the stables, found a horse and had taken off in the direction the stable boy had stated Lady Penelope had departed.

The sun was low in the sky and Jeffrey knew it would be dark soon. Penelope was not aware that Jeffrey knew the place she went when she was feeling distressed. Just at the edge of the Summerfield land, there was an oddly formed cluster of trees right at the edge of a river. The trees grew in such a way that they formed a fortress of leaves and branches, with just a small opening.

The position of the sun indicated it would soon be dark and Jeffery had felt the need to increase his horse’s pace, just to catch up with her. He’d discovered Penelope’s hiding place when he followed her, the day Patrick had left. This was her secret destination whenever she’d felt distressed, at least she’d thought it was a secret. Where the Summerfield land met the river, an oddly formed cluster of trees had grown in such a way they formed a fortress of leaves and branches, with an opening just large enough for her to enter once she dismounted her horse. Once she passed, her horse would follow.

As he neared, he dismounted his horse and tied it off to a nearby tree. He spotted Penelope sitting on the grass, gazing out over the river, a lost look upon her beautiful face. Jeffrey approached her slowly, not wanting to startle her. She turned to see him walking toward her and her gaze turned from confusion to anger.

If I'm on the right track, wonderful;, but if not, suggestions on correcting the previous paragraphs would be helpful, and much appreciated.

Thanks
Sweet.

 

[CopyCarver]

I was about to write a mini-treatise when I realized that Wikipedia has one online at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Past_participle
(It even has far fewer than Wiki’s normal quota of errors)

Focus on “Participles in Modern English” and ignore the rest, unless you happen to be editing a manuscript written in Sirenki or Bulgarian

 

[sweeteuphoria]

http://www.englishpage.com/irregularverbs/irregularverbs.html
I have a whole list of past participles. My concern is if I'm using them properly, as in the initial post.

 

[CopyCarver]

http://www.englishpage.com/irregularverbs/irregularverbs.html
I have a whole list of past participles. My concern is if I'm using them properly, as in the initial post.

My point, of course, wasn’t the list per se, but rather the underlying principles of usage. Understanding the rule book would prevent most doubts about playing the game


However…


"Lord William, Lady Penelope has ran off on her horse, sir," one of the stable boys reported from the doorway of William Summerfield's study.

"Lord William, Lady Penelope has ridden off on her horse, sir," one of the stable boys reported from the doorway of William Summerfield's study.

“has ran” is, obviously bad grammar, so your correction is correct. However, the incorrect grammar occurs within dialogue, coming from the mouth of a stable boy who presumably would not have had a surplus of education. Because of that, the “wrong” might be “right,” simply because it sounds more representative of the character’s probable speech patterns.


William turned to look at Jeffrey who was already headed out the door in search of Penelope. He quickly headed for the stables, found a horse and took off in the direction the stable boy told him Lady Penelope had gone.

William turned to look at Jeffrey who already went out the door in search of Penelope. He quickly headed for the stables, found a horse and had taken off in the direction the stable boy had stated Lady Penelope had departed.

“already went” won’t cut it. “went” is past tense, so the “already” is completely redundant as well as bad grammar. The “had taken” also has to go.

“William turned to look at Jeffrey who was already headed out the door in search of Penelope. He quickly headed for the stables, found a horse and took off in the direction the stable boy told him Lady Penelope had gone.” is fine. Personally, I’d insert a serial comma following [horse] but that’s outside the scope of your major concern.

The sun was low in the sky and Jeffrey knew it would be dark soon. Penelope was not aware that Jeffrey knew the place she went when she was feeling distressed. Just at the edge of the Summerfield land, there was an oddly formed cluster of trees right at the edge of a river. The trees grew in such a way that they formed a fortress of leaves and branches, with just a small opening.

The position of the sun indicated it would soon be dark and Jeffery had felt the need to increase his horse’s pace, just to catch up with her. He’d discovered Penelope’s hiding place when he followed her, the day Patrick had left. This was her secret destination whenever she’d felt distressed, at least she’d thought it was a secret. Where the Summerfield land met the river, an oddly formed cluster of trees had grown in such a way they formed a fortress of leaves and branches, with an opening just large enough for her to enter once she dismounted her horse. Once she passed, her horse would follow.

Unless context or other criteria preclude its use, stay with straight past tense:

“The sun was low in the sky and Jeffrey knew it would be dark soon. Penelope was not aware that Jeffrey knew the place she went when she was feeling distressed. Just at the edge of the Summerfield land, there was an oddly formed cluster of trees right at the edge of a river. The trees grew in such a way that they formed a fortress of leaves and branches, with just a small opening.

As for "has," "had," et al, they're largely unavoidable when working in past participle. The point is that past participle, while completely valid and useful in its place, generally needs to be used only on occasion, not as a near universal.

 

[Oblimo]

Listen to CopyCarver; he is as wise as he is weird.

 

[sweeteuphoria]

Okay, thanks Oblimo and Copy Carver. Your information does make the story easier to edit and I will just brace myself for the 'run don't walk to get an editor that knows grammar' comments, but I think you are right, it does read smoother written the incorrect way.


sweet

 

[snooper]

Okay, thanks Oblimo and Copy Carver. Your information does make the story easier to edit and I will just brace myself for the 'run don't walk to get an editor that knows grammar' comments,

I hope this isn't taken as one of those. it isn't intended as such.

"Lord William, Lady Penelope has ran off on her horse, sir," one of the stable boys reported from the doorway of William Summerfield's study.

As CC says, this is fine. The ignorant stable boy made the error, not the author.

William turned to look at Jeffrey who was already headed out the door in search of Penelope. He quickly headed for the stables, found a horse and took off in the direction the stable boy told him Lady Penelope had gone.

Nothing grammatically wrong here (in US English) but it is more colloquial than your altered version. That is a change in writing style, not a grammatical correction.

The sun was low in the sky and Jeffrey knew it would be dark soon. Penelope was not aware that Jeffrey knew the place she went when she was feeling distressed. Just at the edge of the Summerfield land, there was an oddly formed cluster of trees right at the edge of a river. The trees grew in such a way that they formed a fortress of leaves and branches, with just a small opening.

Again, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with this, and what you have done is re-write it in a more florid and literary style.

One of my standard warnings to authors for whom I edit is: Where I have put “Sounds better” it often just means “Sounds better to an old man”. Many of the ... comments are stylistic. Please beware of changing your writing to read as if I had written it.

Moving on, if this is set in the USA then the story is fine, but if it is set in the UK (as I suspect fromt the "Lord William" and "Lady Penelope"then perhaps UK English would be more appropriate. If so then you need some major changes.

"Lord William, Lady Penelope has ran off on her horse, sir," one of the stable boys reported from the doorway of William Summerfield's study.
No change.

William turned to look at Jeffrey who was already headed out the door in search of Penelope. He quickly headed for the stables, found a horse and took off in the direction the stable boy told him Lady Penelope had gone.
William turned to look at Jeffrey who was already heading out of the door in search of Penelope. He quickly ran to the stables, found a horse and rode off in the direction the stable boy had indicated Lady Penelope had gone.

The sun was low in the sky and Jeffrey knew it would be dark soon. Penelope was not aware that Jeffrey knew the place she went when she was feeling distressed.
The sun was low in the sky and Jeffrey knew it would be dark soon. Penelope was not aware that Jeffrey knew where she went when she was feeling distressed.

I get the curious feeling that the author speaks UK English and is trying to sound American; either that or (s)he is Canadian.

 

[palisa]

A couple of thoughts to add to the good advice above.

The question is not really past participles but perfect tenses. Googling on "sequence of tenses" should turn up some good references; basically, once the main verb in a sentence or sequence of sentences sets the time line, all the other verbs should follow in a logical order. The problem is that the "logical order" isn't always apparent until you dig a little into what's going on.

As a first crack, perfect tenses indicate a completion or continuation of an action, while simple tenses suggest that it just happened -- boom, the end. As CopyCarver suggested, simple tenses, especially in a sequence, are usually better unless there's a reason not to use them.

I'm not sure about the "has ran off" comments. I'm not a fan of introducing dialect or deliberate bad usage unless there's a reason to develop someone's character in a story line. Otherwise, the reader won't know if it's just an oops or deliberate. I'd use "has run off" instead of "has ridden off." The latter changes the meaning; "run off" means "flee," while "ride off" could be a leisurely afternoon canter.
---
William turned to look at Jeffrey who was already headed out the door in search of Penelope. He quickly headed for the stables, found a horse and took off in the direction the stable boy told him Lady Penelope had gone.

William turned to look at Jeffrey who already went out the door in search of Penelope. He quickly headed for the stables, found a horse and had taken off in the direction the stable boy had stated Lady Penelope had departed.
---

(I'd put a comma after "Jeffrey" to make the following clause non-restrictive.) Here is where the sequence of tenses comes in. The main verb is "turned" -- past tense, so the whole sentence is cast in the past. When William turned, Jeffrey was already gone, so past perfect -- completed action -- would be the best choice: "Jeffrey, who had already gone out the door..."

In the second part of that passage, your edited version says that when he "headed" and "found" he had already "ridden off." That's what the past perfect tense does. Obviously, that can't be the case; simple past works, though. He headed, he found and he rode, in that order.

---
This was her secret destination whenever she’d felt distressed, at least she’d thought it was a secret. Where the Summerfield land met the river, an oddly formed cluster of trees had grown in such a way they formed a fortress of leaves and branches, with an opening just large enough for her to enter once she dismounted her horse. Once she passed, her horse would follow.
---

Try "...whenever she felt distressed." She was distressed when the events being narrated were happening; "she had felt" (she'd felt) would mean she had been distressed sometime in the past before the incident being narrated, but got over it. Similarly, she still thought her place was a secret at the time of the narration, so simple past -- "she thought" -- works.