Call me pessimistic.....but.....

[Lady Pendragon]

Ok, but this Sept 11th thing has gone way over board.

It hasn't made people nicer! It hasn't changed the alignement of the universe. Yes, it was a tragedy, but nothing has changed. Plastering it all over the news like the newest country hit won't bring those poor people back.

Just think of the bombing on Oklahoma, how many of you really think back to that horrible day? How many of you mourn those people? Those poor children that got taken from us so early in life?

If you do, it is because you were either there or had a family member in it. Not because it affected you.

I don't see people holding doors for me or anyone else for that matter anymore because they want to be a better person since the bombings. Murders still happen. Children are raped and pilliaged and yet no one takes a second glance at that. People die everyday. It is a part of life. Get over it!

I am not trying to downplay what happen, just make you realize that just because you mourn once a year on the date of something tragic it doesn't make you special. It just makes people like me who actually have lives to live wish we could go without people saying, "Poor pitiful me!"

 

[Willing and Unsure]

I agree with you here LadyP. I dont see why I need a large group of people around me to remember something. This was a huge event, yes. But it was also an event that many people (at least me and several others around here) dont care to see a mass market made of like it already has and will continue to do so. Bad things happen everyday. People die everyday, buildings fall down. The only difference in this one is that an airplane was crashed into the building. Do I feel badly it happened, yes. Do I want to broadcast every single little thing to everyone, no. I'm not going to say I have more important things to do than to remember, but I can remember and commemorate in my own way other than watching another day of news broadcasts and reports about this. I watched over a weeks worth of it a year ago, I dont want to see anymore.

 

[Lady Pendragon]

Not to mention the pain that the relatives have to go through over and over when that plane crashes again and again and again on tv.

 

[Willing and Unsure]

it's not just that. It happened, nothing is going to change that. We all have to accept it and continue on. There is nothing else that can be done. Remembering it is included with accepting it, but we dont have to remember it in such a sad way. Do we remember Independence day (July 4) as a sad day because many people died so we could have our freedom today? I think not. It's remembered as a day of happiness and freedom and a lot of people have parties and bbq's. What should make today different than that? It's sad many people died because of someone else, but in a sense they died for our freedom. That may not be the prevailing bit right now, but I see it as that. And in about 10 years or so I can see people have parties and bbq's for this day as well.

 

[mischeviousmisti]

Ok, but this Sept 11th thing has gone way over board.

It hasn't made people nicer! It hasn't changed the alignement of the universe. Yes, it was a tragedy, but nothing has changed. Plastering it all over the news like the newest country hit won't bring those poor people back.

Just think of the bombing on Oklahoma, how many of you really think back to that horrible day? How many of you mourn those people? Those poor children that got taken from us so early in life?

If you do, it is because you were either there or had a family member in it. Not because it affected you.

I don't see people holding doors for me or anyone else for that matter anymore because they want to be a better person since the bombings. Murders still happen. Children are raped and pilliaged and yet no one takes a second glance at that. People die everyday. It is a part of life. Get over it!

I am not trying to downplay what happen, just make you realize that just because you mourn once a year on the date of something tragic it doesn't make you special. It just makes people like me who actually have lives to live wish we could go without people saying, "Poor pitiful me!"

i agree with you! if i werent so tired and didn't just wke up i'd come up with a nice addition to what you're saying. i wholeheartedly agree with you.

 

[VeryBadGirl]

How many of you mourn those people?
I don't see people holding doors for me or anyone else for that matter anymore because they want to be a better person since the bombings.

I understand what you're saying, but I DO mourn those people. Not because today is the anniversary - I've mourned off and on since it happened.

As far as knowing one of the murdered individuals personally so that I have a reason to mourn and remember, I don't. But I feel that my country was violated, and I don't take its security for granted any more. This may seem simple, but I definitely feel it strongly.

I've had to explain this to my kids so that they would understand that things were different before it happened, even if they someday forget how it used to be. My son used to ask if we would be in a war, and I would say, "not here! nobody would ever dare to attack the US."

W&S - I don't see how the terrorist attack on the WTC can have only the same effect on you as "people dying every day." Is that what you meant? I'm not defending the media circus (I've watched no news since the beginning of last week), but I took it much harder than that. Maybe it's me.

What was the Independence Day-type victory on 9/11 - American people cheered on that day in 1776, but who cheered on 9/11? You envision parties and BBQ's on 9/11/12? I hadn't really thought of that.

 

[Lady Pendragon]

VeryBadGirl, You may mourn and meaningfully mourn, but what I am saying is that most people, there are some that are sincere, but most mourn only to be "one of the crowd."

The country was violated, but women and children, and yes even men are violated daily. It may not have been a big impact all at once type thing, but do you cry for those babies who get raped at the age of five? The ones that no one has on TV that gets no recognition as being around? It may not be a big thing, being how it is only one and many died that day, but it is something sad that happened to that child's family.

With the country crying over the death of those people, and forgetting that the world is still turning, you are basically saying, "Well, many is a great tragedy, so one is nothing."

I do understand the kids thing. I am just thankful mine was not born at the time of that incident. It did make me wonder what kind of world I was bringing him into.

My point was though, that not many, if any of you have changed your life concidering the incident. You may not be free as you were before but how many of you concider the man that just cut you off in the lane of traffic and say, "I forgive him, he is only human." instead of calling him a side swiping asshole with not a moral in his being!

You don't care about the hungry woman holding a sign on the corner saying, "He left us, please help." because she has two children starving in a cardboard box somewhere.

Christmas last year was one of the most profitable for charities, only because the RED CROSS was getting money for the people that were hurt in the disaster of the twin towers. If it had been for a family who's house burned down you would not have heard about them. Or the little girl who needed a bone marrow transplant and no one would give donations enough to help her.

It is a shame that people sit there on their high horse saying "Well, poor people." But when you look at the smaller scale, they say, "Well, that was only one person."

 

[Mountain Man]

it's not just that. It happened, nothing is going to change that. We all have to accept it and continue on. There is nothing else that can be done. Remembering it is included with accepting it, but we dont have to remember it in such a sad way. Do we remember Independence day (July 4) as a sad day because many people died so we could have our freedom today? I think not. It's remembered as a day of happiness and freedom and a lot of people have parties and bbq's. What should make today different than that? It's sad many people died because of someone else, but in a sense they died for our freedom. That may not be the prevailing bit right now, but I see it as that. And in about 10 years or so I can see people have parties and bbq's for this day as well.

There are so many things wrong with this...

First of all to compare july 4th to 9/11 is ludicrious.....July 4th is INDEPENDENCE DAY...when our government, as it was at the time, made the decision to separate froy the Tyrany of King George the III. That Day is a happy and joyful one becuase of that..not because peopled died on it...

Better to compare 9/11 to 12/7/41..the day the Japaneese Bombed Pearl Harbor...do we celebrate and have picnics and Bar-b-q's on that day...I think not.

Yes the Media is going wild over the Tribute...they always do...that's what gets them ratings...

You say that remembering is part of accepting what happened...I Disagree completely with that premise. I will never, Never, be able to accept what happend a year ago today..

according to Mirriam Webster:

Main Entry: ac·cept
Pronunciation: ik-'sept, ak- also ek-
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French accepter, from Latin acceptare, frequentative of accipere to receive, from ad- + capere to take -- more at HEAVE
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 a : to receive willingly <accept a gift> b : to be able or designed to take or hold (something applied or added) <a surface that will not accept ink>
2 : to give admittance or approval to <accept her as one of the group>
3 a : to endure without protest or reaction <accept poor living conditions> b : to regard as proper, normal, or inevitable <the idea is widely accepted> c : to recognize as true : BELIEVE <refused to accept the explanation>
4 a : to make a favorable response to <accept an offer> b : to agree to undertake (a responsibility) <accept a job>
5 : to assume an obligation to pay; also : to take in payment <we don't accept personal checks>
6 : to receive (a legislative report) officially
intransitive senses : to receive favorably something offered -- usually used with of
- ac·cept·ing·ly /-'sep-ti[ng]-lE/ adverb
- ac·cept·ing·ness /-ti[ng]-n&s/ noun

You use the word accept as in definition #3 - I will never beable to endure without protest or reaction...what happend.

you also state that "Bad things happen everyday. People die everyday, buildings fall down. The only difference in this one is that an airplane was crashed into the building."

How immensely neive a view this is...Planes are not hijacked everyday and crashed into buildings with the sole intent to try and destroy the United States. This was an attack on all of us...

Lady P ypu said..."I am not trying to downplay what happen, just make you realize that just because you mourn once a year on the date of something tragic it doesn't make you special. It just makes people like me who actually have lives to live wish we could go without people saying, "Poor pitiful me!"

No one is saying that because they mourn that they are special...You think that all the people who mourn and remember don't have "lives" like you to live...No one that I have heard has said poor pitiful me!...they are remembering those that did nothing more than go on "living their lives" and gong to work and getting on planes on 9/11/01 and were murdered.

And yes...I remember those killed in OKC by Timmothy McVeigh...d every April 19, i take some time to remeber those people, especially the children who were Murdered.

 

[weed]

Well said, ladies. And I understand what you're saying VBG. I certainly feel for the families who have lost so much with the death of their relatives and friends, for the NYC'ers who have had their community so changed and the firemen and other emergency workers who still suffer the effects of their efforts today. And people are certainly allowed to grieve in the way that works for them, whether that's dealing with their anger, dwelling on the losses or celebrating the memory of the lives that were lived before that loss. Wouldn't those victims want to be remembered for their life, not their death. But life does go on. And it will. Look at how many people barely remember December 7th today. People will heal and the media and the politicians will have other crises to focus on.

 

[Lady Pendragon]

MM- Well, in your neck of the woods the world may have not stopped. Here in Dallas, businesses are closing to remember this day.

It is tragic that those people died living their lives, but why stop the world for what happened? That day, I thought it was great that the world stopped to think about their actions. I thought perhaps this would make it a better place to live, but has it changed anything? Other than you remember what happened? Has anyone been nicer? Has the murder count gone down? No.

I had true faith in the human population. I thought a tragedy of such magnitude would make the world better, make people stop and think before blowing people up. Here, it didn't. Iranians, or Indians, they were beaten. They were shot. Their mosques were bombed. It was a pure redneck testosterone event here. If you wore a turban, don't leave your house. The children were rideculed because of what they were born as.

I am just trying to say that the people that mourn, they don't change their evil ways, and that is using the term loosely.....They don't concider acting a better being because those people lost their lives. No good can come from just remembering and crying all day.

Weed, you make a good point with the people will heal......Yes, their will be another event that will happen and everyone will forget what happened on this date a year ago. I know it was tragic, but if you aren't going to change except to become a weeping mass, but yet still be the bitch/asshole you are, then don't remember what happened. There is a person that once said, "Changing the world, starts with the man in the mirror." How many of you have changed the person in the mirror?

 

[weed]

Weed, you make a good point with the people will heal......Yes, their will be another event that will happen and everyone will forget what happened on this date a year ago. I know it was tragic, but if you aren't going to change except to become a weeping mass, but yet still be the bitch/asshole you are, then don't remember what happened. There is a person that once said, "Changing the world, starts with the man in the mirror." How many of you have changed the person in the mirror?

Honey, I was agreeing with you but there are people who genuinely need to grieve. And I don't feel too much need to change. I feel good about the good I do whenever I can already.

 

[Problem Child]

Here in Dallas,...

I think we've identified the problem.

 

[Lady Pendragon]

Honey, I was agreeing with you but there are people who genuinely need to grieve. And I don't feel too much need to change. I feel good about the good I do whenever I can already.

If you do good, Weed, That is great! I am talking about those people who are generally assholes, but then jump on the bandwagon.

There are those that need to greive, but if they don't change their bad ways, then what is the point? Those people died in vain.

I think we've identified the problem.

Hell, at least this southerner sees where the real problem is.

 

[Problem Child]

Hell, at least this southerner sees where the real problem is. The problem is people like you who can't be conciderate and nice for the sake of people and humanity itself.

Ah, thank you for alerting me to the fact that I am responsible for "the sake of humanity itself". Wow, that's a heavy burden.

I'm more concerned about you though. You live in Dallas.


pssst...your spelling buddy sez:

considerate.

 

[Lady Pendragon]

PC, I am not getting into it with you. Never have liked your responses and you aren't worth my time. Goodbye.

 

[Problem Child]

PC, I am not getting into it with you. Never have liked your responses and you aren't worth my time. Goodbye.

Seems to be a lot of anger down there in the Big D. Say, how 'bout them Cowboys?!

er...maybe not.

 

[Willing and Unsure]

There are so many things wrong with this...

First of all to compare july 4th to 9/11 is ludicrious.....July 4th is INDEPENDENCE DAY...when our government, as it was at the time, made the decision to separate froy the Tyrany of King George the III. That Day is a happy and joyful one becuase of that..not because peopled died on it...

Better to compare 9/11 to 12/7/41..the day the Japaneese Bombed Pearl Harbor...do we celebrate and have picnics and Bar-b-q's on that day...I think not.

how is it ludicrous to compare the two? I see the similarities, and I also know the differences. Yes, the reason for a war and many deaths then was to separate from tyranny. It is considered a happy day now, as it was then too. But didnt a lot of people die to ensure our freedom? How often do those people get our sorrow for their loss, their family's loss? They get a memory as we have our parties and send off our fireworks. As of right now, it is celebrated in a different way than what this is right now. In the end though, they are somewhat similar. This event was considered an act of war against our freedom. We, as a nation, have not fought much yet but will in the end. So this is an act of freedom.

Yes the Media is going wild over the Tribute...they always do...that's what gets them ratings...

to quote bluespoke here "I can, and will, remember and be thoughtful without having it rammed down my throat."

You say that remembering is part of accepting what happened...I Disagree completely with that premise. I will never, Never, be able to accept what happend a year ago today..

according to Mirriam Webster:

Main Entry: ac·cept
Pronunciation: ik-'sept, ak- also ek-
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French accepter, from Latin acceptare, frequentative of accipere to receive, from ad- + capere to take -- more at HEAVE
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 a : to receive willingly <accept a gift> b : to be able or designed to take or hold (something applied or added) <a surface that will not accept ink>
2 : to give admittance or approval to <accept her as one of the group>
3 a : to endure without protest or reaction <accept poor living conditions> b : to regard as proper, normal, or inevitable <the idea is widely accepted> c : to recognize as true : BELIEVE <refused to accept the explanation>
4 a : to make a favorable response to <accept an offer> b : to agree to undertake (a responsibility) <accept a job>
5 : to assume an obligation to pay; also : to take in payment <we don't accept personal checks>
6 : to receive (a legislative report) officially
intransitive senses : to receive favorably something offered -- usually used with of
- ac·cept·ing·ly /-'sep-ti[ng]-lE/ adverb
- ac·cept·ing·ness /-ti[ng]-n&s/ noun

You use the word accept as in definition #3 - I will never beable to endure without protest or reaction...what happend.

I have not said that I do not have a reaction to it. I just said I accept the event for having happened. Many people are still outraged, as am I in different ways. I dont feel the need to show myself angrily to those from the Middle-East origin as many do. This happened, nothing can change that. We as a whole can only grow from it and learn from it and do what we can to keep it from happening.

you also state that "Bad things happen everyday. People die everyday, buildings fall down. The only difference in this one is that an airplane was crashed into the building."

How immensely neive a view this is...Planes are not hijacked everyday and crashed into buildings with the sole intent to try and destroy the United States. This was an attack on all of us...

Planes are not hijacked everyday. I will agree with you there, but my view is not naive in any way. Things happen everyday that are an attack on all of us, but the attacker is one of us. Many people look at a lot of things and think that it isnt important because it isnt happening to them. School shootings happen somewhat often nowadays. Those are an attack on all of us and yet there arent constant reminders of those events.




and Mountain Man, no one has said that nobody is allowed to mourn or react over this. It is to be expected considering what all happened. But what is being said is that nobody needs it crammed down our throats. I was ostracized this morning by someone because I'm not going an extra mile today to pray or do something commemorative for the people that died. I think it is my place to decide what I do in commemoration, not someone else's. I should be allowed to voice my opinion on this and say that I dont want to see it for many hours on end. I dont want this shoved down my throat and then told that I should find god.

 

[CoolidgEffect]

how is it ludicrous to compare the two? I see the similarities, and I also know the differences. Yes, the reason for a war and many deaths then was to separate from tyranny. It is considered a happy day now, as it was then too. But didnt a lot of people die to ensure our freedom? How often do those people get our sorrow for their loss, their family's loss? They get a memory as we have our parties and send off our fireworks. As of right now, it is celebrated in a different way than what this is right now. In the end though, they are somewhat similar. This event was considered an act of war against our freedom. We, as a nation, have not fought much yet but will in the end. So this is an act of freedom.

I don't see the similarities at all. July 4th celebrates the signing of the Declaration of Independence. A document carefully crafted to declare our personal freedoms and to separate us from Britain. A day that we announce to the world we would stand and fit for our inalienable rights. It was a conscious decision by our forefathers to stand and fight for their beliefs.

September 11th is a day that cowards utilized our protection of civil liberties to murder thousands of innocent people. It came largely unexpected by those that suffered. There is nothing gained by the suffering. I doubt in 10 years it will mark a day of celebration. I have never been to a Pearl Harbor day party, whooping it up and toasting all of the innocent lives lost on that day.

BTW. By corn fields do you mean Morrow Plots or South Farm?

 

[MechaBlade]

Ok,.... yada yada... me!"

I'm nicer.

 

[Willing and Unsure]

BTW. By corn fields do you mean Morrow Plots or South Farm?

neither.. just corn fields. once you leave this little town you're in a cornfield no matter which direction you head... at least for about an hour's drive anyways.

and I'm not going to argue my views.. I doubt many will see my thoughts clearly on this, at least not today.

 

[VeryBadGirl]

I am just trying to say that the people that mourn, they don't change their evil ways, and that is using the term loosely.....

LG - I'm not saying this derogatorily, but I think that's bizarre. It sounds like you're saying that people should be nicer to each other (because of what happened 9/11?), and if they aren't, they have no right to mourn for the families of the dead.

What has one got to do with the other? Just curious. I'm nice because I'm nice, not because I feel bad about something.

 

[Lady Pendragon]

My point is why mourn when you don't care to change the way you are to make this place a more peaceful existance. People on TV are talking about how this world is full of bastards just like the talaban, but yet what are they doing to change it?

Mourn, yes, but if you are mourning just to say that those people died, ask yourself why! Why did they die? Because the people in this world do not care about anyone but themselves. The taliban didn't care about anyone but themselves, but yet people think they are horrible. (I tend to agree the act was horrible.)

For those of you that act as like a wonderful person and do not judge based on religious preference, color, creaed or anything, more power to you and this wasn't meant for you.