Britons tire of cruel, vulgar US: poll

[Huckleman2000]

Sun Jul 2, 11:12 PM ET
LONDON (AFP) - People in Britain view the United States as a vulgar, crime-ridden society obsessed with money and led by an incompetent president whose
Iraq policy is failing, according to a newspaper poll.

The United States is no longer a symbol of hope to Britain and the British no longer have confidence in their transatlantic cousins to lead global affairs, according to the poll published in The Daily Telegraph.

The YouGov poll found that 77 percent of respondents disagreed with the statement that the US is "a beacon of hope for the world".

As Americans prepared to celebrate the 230th anniversary of their independence on Tuesday, the poll found that only 12 percent of Britons trust them to act wisely on the global stage. This is half the number who had faith in the Vietnam-scarred White House of 1975.

A massive 83 percent of those questioned said that the United States doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.

With much of the worst criticism aimed at the US adminstration, the poll showed that 70 percent of Britons like Americans a lot or a little.

US President George W. Bush fared significantly worse, with just one percent rating him a "great leader" against 77 percent who deemed him a "pretty poor" or "terrible" leader.

More than two-thirds who offered an opinion said America is essentially an imperial power seeking world domination. And 81 per cent of those who took a view said President George W Bush hypocritically championed democracy as a cover for the pursuit of American self-interests.

US policy in Iraq was similarly derided, with only 24 percent saying they felt that the US military action there was helping to bring democracy to the country.

A spokesman for the American embassy said that the poll's findings were contradicted by its own surveys.

"We question the judgment of anyone who asserts the world would be a better place with Saddam still terrorizing his own nation and threatening people well beyond Iraq's borders," the paper quoted the unnamed spokesman as saying.

"With respect to the poll's assertions about American society, we bear some of the blame for not successfully communicating America's extraordinary dynamism.

"But frankly, so do you (the British press)."

In answer to other questions, a majority of the Britons questions described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business.

Wankers.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

In answer to other questions, a majority of the Britons questions described Americans as uncaring, divided by class, awash in violent crime, vulgar, preoccupied with money, ignorant of the outside world, racially divided, uncultured and in the most overwhelming result (90 percent of respondents) dominated by big business.

Well I may be a lot of things but preocupied with money...I prefer to think of myself as preoccupied with sex more than money.

 

[neonlyte]

Wankers.

Who exactly?

Before we start castigating a society on the basis of a single opinion poll, it is worth while bearing in mind that most British peoples opinion of the US is formed by your television programmes and your media. A tiny percentage of Britions have visited the US to take personal measure of the US's largesse. I cannot image any of the British community on Lit have anything other than favourable comments about the majority of US people 'we meet' through the forums. It is a little harsh to label them as 'wankers' if that is what you are doing.

 

[Liar]

Since the article says "...the British no longer have confidence in their transatlantic cousins to lead global affairs...", I would be interrested in knowing what they said five or ten years ago.

 

[rgraham666]

My God! I'm psychic!

I responded to this thread earlier today ad I didn't even know it.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Who exactly?

Before we start castigating a society on the basis of a single opinion poll, it is worth while bearing in mind that most British peoples opinion of the US is formed by your television programmes and your media. A tiny percentage of Britions have visited the US to take personal measure of the US's largesse. I cannot image any of the British community on Lit have anything other than favourable comments about the majority of US people 'we meet' through the forums. It is a little harsh to label them as 'wankers' if that is what you are doing.

Sorry, that was meant with tongue firmly in cheek.

 

[neonlyte]

Sorry, that was meant with tongue firmly in cheek.

It's always worthwhile lodging an early protest Hell, Amicus may have got in first

 

[oggbashan]

The NatWest Three

Sometimes the US seems to go out of its way to irritate its allies.

There is a new treaty that allows simple extradition from the US to the UK and the UK to the US. This treaty was designed to help with the global war on terror.

The US administration has not yet ratified it so extradition from the US to the UK hasn't changed. An excuse given is that the UK could use the treaty to extradite IRA people from the US for 'political' crimes.

BUT three Nat West Bank employees are facing extradition to the US to face charges relating to ENRON. What they are accused of was NOT a crime in the UK at the time of their actions. Even now, it would be a minor infraction of financial rules - if proven. Because it happened BEFORE the law changed in the UK they have committed no offence here.

They are NOT terrorists or suspected terrorists. They are senior bank employees who were doing what they were paid to do - make money for their employers and customers.

The new treaty allows the US to extradite British citizens to face trial in a US Court without the need to produce any evidence whatever that a crime has been committed.

If tried in the US under US law and convicted of an offence against US law they could face harsher sentences than the main players in the ENRON scandal because as UK citizens they are not able to plea-bargain.

This is unfair and unbalanced treatment. It is worrying many lawyers, bankers and the establishment in the UK because a treaty is being misused even though the US has not delivered its part of the agreement.

The US administration is aware that the case of these three bankers is irritating many senior figures in Britain but will not act to halt the extradition nor to make the treaty bilateral.

The UK supports the US throughout the world. Sometimes the US makes life very difficult for its allies, yet allies we stay.

Og

 

[Tom Collins]

More than two-thirds who offered an opinion said America is essentially an imperial power seeking world domination.

Shit! They've figured us out...now we're gonna have to go Enola Gay on Britan's ass. Do a full on Hiroshima. I'm talkin' the Fatman and Littleboy Boogie, baby.

 

[Tom Collins]

Sometimes the US seems to go out of its way to irritate its allies.

There is a new treaty that allows simple extradition from the US to the UK and the UK to the US. This treaty was designed to help with the global war on terror.

The US administration has not yet ratified it so extradition from the US to the UK hasn't changed. An excuse given is that the UK could use the treaty to extradite IRA people from the US for 'political' crimes.

BUT three Nat West Bank employees are facing extradition to the US to face charges relating to ENRON. What they are accused of was NOT a crime in the UK at the time of their actions. Even now, it would be a minor infraction of financial rules - if proven. Because it happened BEFORE the law changed in the UK they have committed no offence here.

They are NOT terrorists or suspected terrorists. They are senior bank employees who were doing what they were paid to do - make money for their employers and customers.

The new treaty allows the US to extradite British citizens to face trial in a US Court without the need to produce any evidence whatever that a crime has been committed.

If tried in the US under US law and convicted of an offence against US law they could face harsher sentences than the main players in the ENRON scandal because as UK citizens they are not able to plea-bargain.

This is unfair and unbalanced treatment. It is worrying many lawyers, bankers and the establishment in the UK because a treaty is being misused even though the US has not delivered its part of the agreement.

The US administration is aware that the case of these three bankers is irritating many senior figures in Britain but will not act to halt the extradition nor to make the treaty bilateral.

The UK supports the US throughout the world. Sometimes the US makes life very difficult for its allies, yet allies we stay.

Og

Someday the world at large, and Britain in particular, will fully accept that the American government is two faced and loves double standards and then you guys will really hate us. That's when we'll be really fucked.

 

[kendo1]

A massive 83 percent of those questioned said that the United States doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.


I suspect that 83% of Americans don't know the rest of the world exists, let alone where it is.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Didn't the Brits have a saying about the yanks back in the 1939-1945 unpleasantness (1941-1945 for we New World latecomers):
"The problem with the Yank (soldiers) is that they're oversexed, overpaid, and over here!"

 

[Tom Collins]

A massive 83 percent of those questioned said that the United States doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.


I suspect that 83% of Americans don't know the rest of the world exists, let alone where it is.

I know where everything else in the world is. It's yonder.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

We're not all bad. It's just a cabal of men and women dedicated to a theocratic empire and a Pax Americana that will usher in the "Millennial Kingdom". I guess I missed the part where oil profiteering was the purpose of the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[Tom Collins]

We're not all bad. It's just a cabal of men and women dedicated to a theocratic empire and a Pax Americana that will usher in the "Millennial Kingdom". I guess I missed the part where oil profiteering was the purpose of the Second Coming of Christ.

And the Lord Jesus said, "Behold, I come unto you like a lion, seeking petrolium...for the making of jelly."

 

[kendo1]

To quote Huck,

Oops. That was meant with tongue firmly in cheek.

But it is what a lot of people think over here, over here...

Ken

 

[Tom Collins]

To quote Huck,

Oops. That was meant with tongue firmly in cheek.

But it is what a lot of people think over here, over here...

Ken

Dinna worry, lad. We bloody Yank bastards love ya. I totally took what you said as a joke and joked back.

 

[neonlyte]

To quote Huck,

Oops. That was meant with tongue firmly in cheek.

But it is what a lot of people think over here, over here...

Ken

I wouldn't for a moment dispute that anti US sentiment is on the rise in the UK and many other European countries. If I look out of my window I can see a caricatured USA military officer dresssed in a Nazi style uniform threatening an Iraqi - it's been there since the first Gulf War. It is painted on the end wall of the fish market, the wall of this municipality building is redecorated every couple of years, they paint around the caricature (which also blames NATO).

 

[oggbashan]

Didn't the Brits have a saying about the yanks back in the 1939-1945 unpleasantness (1941-1945 for we New World latecomers):
"The problem with the Yank (soldiers) is that they're oversexed, overpaid, and over here!"

Yes, but it was a joke with some sore truth in it. Most British troops were out of the UK and the US soldiers were a hit with the women left behind. GIs were much better paid, better fed and better equipped (with military equipment, what did you think I meant?) than the British equivalent.

Generally all US troops were welcomed after some initial reserve. One problem was that British citizens saw black GIs as being exactly the same as white GIs. We had to be 'educated' to see black GIs as inferior.

When the war ended, shiploads of GI brides left the UK to join their husbands in the US. Perhaps we welcomed them too well...

Og

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

When the war ended, shiploads of GI brides left the UK to join their husbands in the US. Perhaps we welcomed them too well...
Og

Your loss was our gain.

 

[ishtat]

Most of the Negative response of this report was directed at the current US government not its people.

Today this report represents less than 0.1% of the coverage given to Englands failure in the World Cup which puts its importance in context.

Its also worth remembering that Brits contempt for their own government (and Opposition parties) is if anything even greater this being clearly evidenced by bye election results last week .

 

[oggbashan]

Two issues that worry

The US is supposed to be a nation ruled by law. You certainly have enough lawyers.

Yet two issues cause concern to the US's allies and give comfort to its enemies:

Guantanamo Bay:

Either the people held there are Prisoners of War, in which case the Geneva Convention should apply, or they are possible criminals who should be brought to a normal trial and proven guilty or innocent. The holding of people indefinitely without charge or trial is against international law and against the principles of Magna Carta - no man shall be denied justice.

Extraordinary Rendition:

The US has made most of Europe complicit in their acts of extraordinary rendition by using European airports as staging posts for the transfers.

Both issues show a contempt for the normal processes of law. If any of the people held in Guanatamo or in places of Extraordinary Rendition were to be held on US territory they would have access to the US legal system and could claim that they are held illegally.

The UK government and many European governments have frequently raised these issues with the US administration. Neither issue shows 'democracy' as something that the rest of the world should aspire to.

If I were actually Henry VIII, instead of being someone who plays him occasionally, I could not have defied my own law to the extent that these issues do. I had to convict people of 'crimes' before I could execute them. That meant that I had to bring them to a normal trial and allow them a defence team.

Both issues are very useful propaganda for the enemies of the US and causes for recruiters of terrorists to exploit. Propaganda that is TRUE is the best of all for raising hatred for the US.

As for Abu Gharib: That didn't help the US stance as liberators. I don't believe that what happened was a deliberate policy of the US administration. Many, and not only the US's enemies but some of its friends, DO think that abuse of prisoners was intentional and the only unintentional thing was that the pictures got out.

It is difficult to overstate the impact these issues have on how other states regard the US. Its allies, including the UK, have to be continually on the defensive when these issues are raised.

It is sometimes very difficult to support the US. Yet we do. The UK, and much of Europe, are not just fair-weather friends.

Og

 

[FallingToFly]

Wankers.

Aren't we all? I mean.. when I spend a couple hundred a year on sex oils, toys, accoutrements- I'd say that counts?

We're all wankers, every one... so.. let's all go have a wank and be friends!

 

[oggbashan]

Context

If the poll had asked:

Are Tony and Cherie Blair vulgar and obsessed with money?...

The percentage answering 'Yes' would have been higher (and higher still for the WAGS (wives and girlfriends) of the English football team with the probable addition 'Some have great tits!')

If the poll had asked 'Do Tony and Cherie Blair care what the world thinks?' the answer suggesting they didn't would be higher (ditto for the WAGS).

The YouGov polls are tailored to a specific demographic profile. Who was asked could have influenced the answers.

Perhaps they asked the population of a Bradford suburb?

Og

 

[Huckleman2000]

The US is supposed to be a nation ruled by law. You certainly have enough lawyers.

Yet two issues cause concern to the US's allies and give comfort to its enemies:

Guantanamo Bay:

Either the people held there are Prisoners of War, in which case the Geneva Convention should apply, or they are possible criminals who should be brought to a normal trial and proven guilty or innocent. The holding of people indefinitely without charge or trial is against international law and against the principles of Magna Carta - no man shall be denied justice.

Extraordinary Rendition:

The US has made most of Europe complicit in their acts of extraordinary rendition by using European airports as staging posts for the transfers.

Both issues show a contempt for the normal processes of law. If any of the people held in Guanatamo or in places of Extraordinary Rendition were to be held on US territory they would have access to the US legal system and could claim that they are held illegally....
Og

These are really valid points. Finally, Guantanamo may be addressed, because of the recent ruling by the Supreme Court that prisoners held there could not be tried under the means that the Bush Administration had set, and also that they were entitled to Geneva protections. The ramifications are still being argued by legal pundits, but pretty much everyone agrees that it puts a severe crimp in Bush's monarchal reach.