Britain cutting troop levels in Iraq by end of October

[Pookie]

At least according to the Guardian ...

Britain to cut troop levels in Iraq

Jason Burke, chief reporter
Sunday September 19, 2004
The Observer

The British Army is to start pulling troops out of Iraq next month despite the deteriorating security situation in much of the country, The Observer has learnt.

The main British combat force in Iraq, about 5,000-strong, will be reduced by around a third by the end of October during a routine rotation of units.

The news came amid another day of mayhem in Iraq, which saw a suicide bomber kill at least 23 people and injure 53 in the northern city of Kirkuk. The victims were queueing to join Iraq's National Guard.

More than 200 people were killed last week in one of the bloodiest weeks since last year's invasion, strengthening impressions that the country is spinning out of control.

Yesterday grim footage apparently showing a British engineer kidnapped from a house in Baghdad last week along with two American colleagues surfaced in a video released in the Iraqi capital. The group holding the three threatened to execute them unless Iraqi women prisoners are released from jail.

And last night it was reported that 10 more staff working for an American-Turkish company had been seized as hostages.

There are now fears that scheduled Iraqi elections in January will have to be delayed because of the growing instability.

Last week Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, said that more troops could be sent to safeguard the polls if necessary, although Whitehall sources said there was no guarantee that they would be British.

The forthcoming 'drawdown' of British troops in Basra has not been made public and is likely to provoke consternation in both Washington and Baghdad. Many in Iraq argue that more, not fewer, troops are needed. Last week British troops in Basra fought fierce battles with Shia militia groups.

The reduction will take place when the First Mechanised Infantry Brigade is replaced by the Fourth Armoured Division, now based in Germany, in a routine rotation over the next few weeks.

Troop numbers are being finalised, but, military sources in Iraq and in Whitehall say, they are likely to be 'substantially less' than the current total in Basra: the new combat brigade will have five or even four battle groups, against its current strength of six battle groups of around 800 men.

A military spokesman in Basra confirmed the scaling back of the British commitment.

Currently there are 8,000 British troops in the 14,000-strong 'multinational division' in southern Iraq, which has responsibility for about 4.5 million people.

The cuts will occur in the combat elements of the deployment - the 5,000-strong infantry and armoured brigade that is committed to the provinces of Basra and Maysan. Four Royal Navy ships will remain in the Gulf.

However, the incoming force will leave its heavy armour, mainly Challenger tanks, behind, but will be equipped with a unit of Warrior armoured troop carriers.

Senior officers say the scaling back of the British commitment in Iraq is a sign of their success in keeping order and helping reconstruction. But both Basra and Maysan have seen heavy combat recently, with some units sustaining up to 35 per cent casualties, and remains restive. The al-Mahdi army, which was responsible for most of the fighting, remains heavily armed.

'Whatever they say, fewer troops mean less capability,' a military expert told The Observer . 'You need as many boots on the ground as you can get for low-intensity warfare and peace-keeping operations.'

Iyad Allawi, the interim Iraqi Prime Minister, will hold talks with Tony Blair at Chequers tomorrow on security issues, including elections and the strengthening of border patrols.

News of the troop withdrawal comes at a difficult time for Blair, with the publication yesterday of leaked documents suggesting that he was warned a year before the invasion that it could prompt a meltdown.

However Tessa Jowell, the Culture Secretary and a close ally of Blair, told The Observer that the Prime Minister still believed that Britain's actions would be justified by the restoration of democracy 'however difficult and remote a prospect that seems at the moment, when our headlines are crowded with further attacks by the insurgents'.

In another embarrassment for the Prime Minister, a draft report from the Iraqi Survey Group, set up to investigate Saddam Hussein's weapons programme, has concluded that the former dictator's only chemical or biological armament was a small amount of poison for use in political killings.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1307980,00.html

This can't be good news for Bush.

 

[Pookie]

I've read some things that lead me to believe that Blair is a bit put out with Bush right now. Blair has refused to come to the US to receive the Congressional Medal of Honor prior to Novemeber 2nd. Now he's cutting troops by a third before the US election.

 

[ruminator]

This isn't helping his campaign either.

Tony Blair was warned a year before invading Iraq that a stable post-war government would be impossible without keeping large numbers of troops there for "many years", secret government papers reveal.

The documents, seen by The Telegraph, show more clearly than ever the grave reservations expressed by Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, over the consequences of a second Gulf war and how prescient his Foreign Office officials were in predicting the ensuing chaos.

Secret Papers Show Blair was Warned of Iraq Chaos

 

[Pookie]

This doesn't look good either ...

... In another embarrassment for the Prime Minister, a draft report from the Iraqi Survey Group, set up to investigate Saddam Hussein's weapons programme, has concluded that the former dictator's only chemical or biological armament was a small amount of poison for use in political killings.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1307980,00.html

 

[ruminator]

Evidently he was caught up in the with us or against us philosophy that is the Bush diplomacy.

The bright spot might be that the truth will be echoed in more places. Shame it doesn't make any difference or bring about any change.

 

[Killswitch]

Hold on to your paychecks and hold on to your 18-22 year old sons is all I can say.

Its a fucking disaster over there.

 

[ruminator]

It's only going to get worse in the near future. Pretending it isn't bad doesn't make it any better.

I think you hit it right on the paychecks and kids. It looks like the Bush crew is going to get 4 more years of power to do whatever the hell they want.

 

[Myrrdin]

Do you know something we don't?

. Blair's own election is 3 months away.

The next UK General Election could be any date up to June 2006.

 

[ksmybuttons]

Hmmm. Coalition is such a weak word when the majority of the people fighting and dying are ours.

 

[Pookie]

Re: Do you know something we don't?

The next UK General Election could be any date up to June 2006.

I meant to say Iraq's elections are three months away.

 

[overthebow]

Iraq is going from worse to worst.

At what point does it not count as a coalition?

 

[hobbit.]

Re: Do you know something we don't?

The next UK General Election could be any date up to June 2006.

Blair is expected to make a surprise announcement during the Labour party conference about a 'snap' election. A bye election is being held during the Labour party annual conference. a lot will hinge on if the Liberals do well in the Hartlepool bye election. if the libs do well, a general election looks doubtful. if labour do well, we could get a general election soon, certainly with in 3 months. a side note is that ALL local branches of the labour party who do not have a standing member of parliament to automatically reselect, have been told to get one before the end of October. no hint there then.

 

[Frimost]

Britian is cutting troop and equipment levels period.
Forthe first time since the 17th century the French will have a larger and more powerfuln navy then Britian in a few years after they retire more of thier submarines and thier Captian ship surface combatants drop down to only about 28 vessels (compared to France's 32+).

That's bad, from World Empire to second bannana to the Frenchies in less then 75 years.

 

[ruminator]

Re: Re: Do you know something we don't?

I meant to say Iraq's elections are three months away.

So they say. Some have doubts they will happen then.

If Bush gets a 2nd term I wouldn't look for any elections in Iraq any time soon.

 

[Don K Dyck]

Hold on to your paychecks and hold on to your 18-22 year old sons is all I can say.

Its a fucking disaster over there.

Iraq has become the Vietnam of the 21st century . . . all American students should realise that the re-election of the Bush Family Dynasty of appointed Presidents will mean a return of conscription to fight the holy war agains t those freedom fighters in Iraq who want to keep Iraqi natural resources for Iraqi citizens . . . shame on them not letting the imperialist infidel war-mongers take those resources in a major carpet-bagging exercise . . .

At present the main victims of the illegal imperialist occupation are the Iraqis killed and wounded as "collateral damage" by American troops supporting the private war of the Bush Family and their Faud partners in the Carlisle Group in their greedy quest to snatch the bin Laden family fortunes . . .