Bring back the service humans, dammit.

[shereads]

Suppose you recieved a letter from your mortage company demanding a chunk of change substantial enough to temporarily stop your breathing and make your eyeballs pop from their sockets on cartoon springs.

Suppose the letter explained that you were being charged a stack of "late fees," even though you pay your mortgage automatically each month and all of the payments have been processed on time.

If you are like me, you might pause for a moment before advertising your kidney on e-bay, and call "Customer Service."

Have you talked to Customer Service recently, pornsters? If you have, then you can just scroll past my rant and post your kidney offer, because you know what happened to me this afternoon and how many hours it took.

You probably know that the young girl in Iowa (the second one) was in tears by the time she explained that the late fees have been accruing, with interest, for three months because yes, my payments were received on time, but no, they were not for the new, inexplicably higher amount, which means they were considered partial payments are went into a special "holding account" rather than being credited as payments, so that - by the way - credit agencies will probably have been instructed to add me to their list of deadbeats because, technically, I haven't made a mortgage payment in more than three months.

So great. Perfect. I've made a perfectly lovely girl cry, and I don't have a clue how it was decided that my mortage payments should have been several hundred dollars higher than they were. I only know that I have to give the mortgage company a lot of money or the pile of late fees will grow and the money I've been calling a mortgage payment will continue to rest in the special holding account.

Why is she crying? She gets to keep both kidneys.

I begged to speak to a supervisor. There aren't any.

My late fees were enrichiing the company coffers with accrued interest, and the girl was crying, and I was desperate to end our standoff. It was time to Write The Letter.

In pioneer days, The Letter was guaranteed to get a response when nothing else did. The Letter has presence. It looks like evidence. If it names names, people are held accountable. I hate to write letters because that means looking for stamps. But it was time.

When I told the girl I wanted to write a letter to someone who could explain what's happening, she sounded so relieved I wanted to give her a hug.

"Yes, you can write to the Correspondence Department."

"Actually, I want the name and title of the person I should write to."

"The Correspondence Department handles all of our mail."

"Who will they refer the letter to?"

"They don't need to give it to anyone else. They can look at your file."

"Like you did?"

"Yes, ma'am."

(uncomfortable pause; sounds of more crying)

"Let me get this straight: when the Correspondence Department receives an irate letter from a customer alleging that your company has made a costly mistake, and that Customer Service, although perfectly nice, was not able to make me understand the problem or suggest any solutions other than sending more money, the next step is just like this step? But without the phone?"

"Y - yes." (She chokes back a sob)

"There is no URGENT COSTLY MISTAKES Department where letters go when the Correspondence Department senses desperation or even pending legal action?"

"All of our mail is handled by the Corresondence Department."

She and I are both too tired to cry at this point. I take a deep breath and one last shot:

"Do they have a supervisor?"

"No, ma'am."

 

[rgraham666]

Don't you understand shereads? The purpose of modern business is not to offer service, but to make money.

Service is expensive and cuts into profits. Without profits, America will no longer be great.

What sort of un-American Blue Stater are you to deny the Greatness of The Land of The Free?

 

[Guest]

So she's coming to Carson and Zoot's party, then?

 

[Lilin Penn]

I am so sorry to hear about your bad experience, I know how it can be. (I work in the Customer Service/Order department for my company) Anymore it's hard to get a human to handle any problems. Sadly especially where I work.

Most places, if you are lucky enough to speak to a human, have really poor customer service. People just don't care the way they used to ...IMO

 

[Weird Harold]

"Actually, I want the name and title of the person I should write to."
...

"There is no URGENT COSTLY MISTAKES Department where letters go when the Correspondence Department senses desperation or even pending legal action?"

Your mortgage company has a CEO, President, and other officers who should be a matter of public record -- write to them. ALL of them. Preferably on your lawyer's letterhead.

Specifically, ask them how you were supposedly notified of the increase in minimum payments.

 

[CrimsonMaiden]

When my mortgage company ups our payment (usually cause the escrow account for the insurance and taxes doesn't have enough money in it), they send a statement. If you don't pay it all at once, they automatically change your payment amount (and they change how much they take out of your bank account each month for automatic payments.)

Keep trying until you get ahold of someone. It's their fault not yours.

 

[Guest]

Your mortgage company has a CEO, President, and other officers who should be a matter of public record -- write to them. ALL of them. Preferably on your lawyer's letterhead.

Specifically, ask them how you were supposedly notified of the increase in minimum payments.

Yes.

Shouldn't there have been some sort of Escrow statement just after the first of the year?

Sher - so sorry to hear about this, honestly.

 

[Softouch911]

Your mortgage company has a CEO, President, and other officers who should be a matter of public record -- write to them. ALL of them. Preferably on your lawyer's letterhead.

Specifically, ask them how you were supposedly notified of the increase in minimum payments.

He's right. Make friends with a lawyer. (No, this doesn't have to be an oxymoron.) Or find one just out of law school who will write it for, say, $25.

It's been my experience that "supervisors" suddenly materialize when someone who can merely imply that there are avenues of legal recourse available writes. (But don't threaten legal action -- that sends it fast forward to the legal department which specializes in cries in the wilderness and rending of garments.)

Your post would have been funny if it hadn't been so painfully true. I hope you can get this straightened out.



Softouch

 

[Colleen Thomas]

the Ceo will be a mtter of ublic record, as will his address. He i sthe one to send a lteer to first. In general, a note of CC to you congressmen, both state and federal, plus the BBB and DOJ will get his attention.

Notify them all, and consult a lawyer at once. Do not just contract him to sort it out, plan on sueing for punative damages if it turns out they have done anything even slightly below board.

My parents had this happen some years ago. Except they mortgage company claimed they didn't have enough insurance on the house so they assigned my father an inusrer and subtracted monthly payments from his payments at an exorbitant rate as well as defaulting his payments as partial payment.

I got the CEOs addy off the web and sent him a letter. I also told my father to Call Thad Cochran's office and ask them to inquire. I made sure to send along a photo copy of the mortgage, which mentions nothing abou tinsurance.

Turns out my father's mortgage holder sold his accout to another bank that does require insurance. I told th eperson who called that wasn't my father's problem and when she got mouthy I told her they could addres all further correspondance to Senator Chochran's office and my father's lawyer.

Within a day, a certified letter came, which I told dad to refuse to sign for, suspecting it contained the notifications et al they should have provided before taking action.

There are things a bank can dolegally that sound like they shouldn't. There are also things they can't do and this sounds like one they can't. Rather than offering your kidney on Ebay, I would see a lawyer and if they are in the wrong, I'd go after the CEO's family jewles.

*HUGS*

 

[mlady_france]

At least you got a real person. When I tried to cancle my internet provider (because I didn't have a phone at the time to use their sevice) I called the 800 number. All I got was a recording refuring me to the website. I didn't have the net, how was I suposed to use the website to cancle their sevice. I finally got to a computer and went to the site they reffered me too. It told me to call the 800 number

 

[shereads]

I am so sorry to hear about your bad experience, I know how it can be. (I work in the Customer Service/Order department for my company) Anymore it's hard to get a human to handle any problems. Sadly especially where I work.

Most places, if you are lucky enough to speak to a human, have really poor customer service. People just don't care the way they used to ...IMO

Hey, I can at least be glad that she was in Iowa and not Pakistan. Nothing against Pakistan, but I once had to explain the refinance concept to someone working for a home finance company. How little do they have to pay someone to make untrained phone reps a cost-efficient business concept.

 

[shereads]

the Ceo will be a mtter of ublic record, as will his address. He i sthe one to send a lteer to first. In general, a note of CC to you congressmen, both state and federal, plus the BBB and DOJ will get his attention.

Notify them all, and consult a lawyer at once. Do not just contract him to sort it out, plan on sueing for punative damages if it turns out they have done anything even slightly below board.

My parents had this happen some years ago. Except they mortgage company claimed they didn't have enough insurance on the house so they assigned my father an inusrer and subtracted monthly payments from his payments at an exorbitant rate as well as defaulting his payments as partial payment.

I got the CEOs addy off the web and sent him a letter. I also told my father to Call Thad Cochran's office and ask them to inquire. I made sure to send along a photo copy of the mortgage, which mentions nothing abou tinsurance.

Turns out my father's mortgage holder sold his accout to another bank that does require insurance. I told th eperson who called that wasn't my father's problem and when she got mouthy I told her they could addres all further correspondance to Senator Chochran's office and my father's lawyer.

Within a day, a certified letter came, which I told dad to refuse to sign for, suspecting it contained the notifications et al they should have provided before taking action.

There are things a bank can dolegally that sound like they shouldn't. There are also things they can't do and this sounds like one they can't. Rather than offering your kidney on Ebay, I would see a lawyer and if they are in the wrong, I'd go after the CEO's family jewles.

*HUGS*

Oh, lord. I know, Colly. I know, Wierd Harold. I know what must be done. I think self-immolation might be preferable than what I went through with The Non-Existent Tree.

I had a lien put on my home by the City of Miami for failing to pay the $500 fine for unpermited removal of a tree; a law I happen to favor because our mature oak trees represent a big part of the value of a home in my neighborhood.

The fact that the photograph kept on file to prove my crime was a photo of my neighbort's house, and the additional fact that there was no tree, but only a large pile of small limbs waiting for curb pickup after a careful, professional pre-hurricane pruning and thinning, did nothing to speed the process along. Try telling a public servant, "There was no tree," and watch her eyes glaze over when she says, "That's because you cut it down."

If you're a masochist, try again to show her the difference between a photo of my house and the photo in her file. Don't shoot when she says, "Well if it's not your house, then why is the picture in a file with your name on it?"

Can't put anything by that girl.

Then there was the Bell South adventure. Two weeks without phone service because they had the wrong address on file and kept saying I failed to show up for the service appointment. It took me only three days to figure out that the repairman was going to an old address, but it took the remaining two weeks to get anyone at the phone company to get the concept. Note that my bills have never failed to find the correct address.

At one point, I made an expedition into BellSouth's intranet site. I don't even know how I got in. I was just trying to find the name and address of someone important.

It was there, in the dark underbelly of BellSouth's intranet site, that I discovered a department called - I am not making this up - "Deny All Knowledge."

Deny All Knowledge, unlike most other departments, listed a mailing address in Columbia, S.C. but no telephone or email contacts or department heads.

Someone from BellSouth's engineering division eventually returned my call. (I had been desperately contacting every head of every department I could find. I think I left an e-mail for the lunch lady at corporate headquarters, too, but only the engineer called me back.

He laughed when I asked about Deny All Knowledge and said he had no idea what it was.

But then, he'd have to, wouldn't he?

 

[R. Richard]

Go and look at your correspondence with the mortgage company. Find the actual name of the company (you may need to search the correspondence a bit and may find that Friendly Mortgage is actually Hound-em and Sue-em, Inc.) When you get the actual company name, go to the Yahoo finance page. You can do a search on the company name. The search on the compamy name will yield a (typically three or four letter) code. Enter the code in the finance search window and it will pull up "a bunch" information on the company, including the profile. The profile will give you the name and mailing address of the CEO, CFO, etc.

Write the CEO, CFO, etc. a polite, to the point letter, stressing that you are a (starving widow, single mother about to commit suicide, etc.) Send a copy to your Congressperson, Representative, lawyer, etc.

Even if the mortgage company has legal right, which is doubtful, the elected officials do not want a poor old widow to hobble up on the stage at a political rally and start screaming about "I lost my house after you failed to help!"

What happens is that the politician's secretary calls the mortgage company and tells them that they are in violation of numerous laws. The mortgage company lawyer tells her that the mortgage company is in com0liance with all of the relevant laws. The politician's secretary coos, "Look, dogbrain, my employer wrote the laws. The laws contradict each other. Thus you are a lying sack of shit!"

Typically the mortgage company settles.

 

[LadyJeanne]

Once you get it sorted out with the mortgage company, make sure they contact the credit bureaus to clear your late payment record. Order a copy of your report to verify it's been done. You might also want to request that the credit bureaus add your own statement to their records while you're waiting for the mortgage company to clear it.

And then, the most important thing of all - if you can refinance, do it with another company. They shouldn't get to keep your business after making you go through all this.

Sympathies.

 

[BigAndTall]

I must be crazy. I love dealing with companies that do poor service and expect me just to take it.

I am the worse person to have call up a service department cause I have nothing better to do.

I will put you on speaker phone and wait 45 minutes.

I will be very aggressive and tell you want you are going to do for me.

I will take your dare and call your bluff.

And its all cause I know you want my money....


In fact, dealing with a bill collector is sometimes the highlight of my night.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Going through my third attempted foreclosure in the last year, my second since I notified my mortgage companies that I finally had found employment that could cover my monthly expenses. That seemed to be the "alert the vultures" moment.

You cannot speak to anyone with any authority to change your account. It's impossible. You can calmly reason, scream, alternate the two... it makes no difference, since no one who actually speaks to a customer is empowered with the knowledge of who can actually make a decision.

In the meantime, trying to save enough to fend off the foreclosure folks, my credit cards keep raising my interest rates and reducing my credit limit, so that they charge me more than my minimum payment every month, with late fees and overlimit fees, and there's no way I can catch up, even though I finally found a job that pays me almost $60K! I was unemployed for most of 3 years, and even though I never used my credit cards, I owe thousands more than I did before. Almost all my money went for trying to keep mortgages current, and for COBRA health insurance payments.

I drained my 401k, and got docked a tax penalty since I did it before they foreclosed on me, and now I'm hindered at work because I don't have a credit card to use for travel prior to reimbursement - I have to get everything charged to a senior exec's card. It's humiliating.

The recent changes in bankruptcy laws, courtesy of BushCo, are indecent - particularly on top of the repeal of usury laws sometime int he 80s. Banks make huge profits on "fees", that amount to unconscionable returns on debt that they encourage at every opportunity.

Welcome to the abyss that awaits anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves faced with a bit of a hard time.

 

[shereads]

I must be crazy. I love dealing with companies that do poor service and expect me just to take it.

I am the worse person to have call up a service department cause I have nothing better to do.

I will put you on speaker phone and wait 45 minutes.

I will be very aggressive and tell you want you are going to do for me.

I will take your dare and call your bluff.

And its all cause I know you want my money....


In fact, dealing with a bill collector is sometimes the highlight of my night.

I can be the bitch from hell with rude or incompetent service people, but that wasn't the case here. This young woman had no one higher up the ladder who would help out in a situation that wasn't in the script. I know how she felt; a job or two ago, I worked in a corporate environment where "management" meant, "person who signs new clients by making promises the office can't keep, and then disappears." I've been on the receiving end of rants by people as confused and frustrated as I was today, and there was nothing I could do for them but stammer.

It will turn out, I suspect, that something legitimate happened involving my escrow account, and that I was undermedicated and didn't notice. I'm not suspicous of this particular company's motives. I'm just furious that what used to be an excellent service department has followed the penny-pinching trend and is now staffed with people who are undertrained, undersupervised, and are hung out to dry when they happen to be as confused by something as the customer they're trying to help.

The thing that really has me steamed is that she had obviously been told not to provide the name and title of anyone above her. The first rule of cutting through red tape used to be, "Ask for the name of a responsible person." It nearly always got results. Apparently some efficiency consultant is spreading the word that it wastes time and money when customers are allowed to focus a manager's attention on our problems. Remove the manager from the equation, and only a small percentage of us will pursue the issue past the point of maximum frustration.

I made this girl cry. I felt like an ogre. And I wasn't even in Full Bitch Mode.

 

[Guest]

I made this girl cry. I felt like an ogre. And I wasn't even in Full Bitch Mode.

That isn't your fault.

And I imagine the girl will toughen up quickly. She'll have to in order to survive in a customer service department.


(Unless she enjoys being yelled at. That fetish would put her in a different department altogether. )

 

[BlackShanglan]

My bank began, for some reason, calling me at work with offers of various services. I cut them short quite savagely and demanded to be removed from the list. They agreed that they would. Two weeks later, they did it again. And another two weeks. And a fourth two weeks. Finally, I demanded to speak to a manager. Amazingly, I got one. It would, however, be difficult to convey in writing the fine blend of contempt, disinterest, annoyance and irritation with which I found myself addressed. Fortunately, I was more than sufficiently angry myself to ignore that and press the point home.

Interestingly, after having been told on each of the previous three calls that it might take up to 6 weeks for my records to be cleared, I was told by this individual that she would "send an email to the head office" and that I would definitely not receive another phone call. I had a strong suspicion that I was being fobbed off to get me off of the line. I asked to whom I might address a letter - surprise, the same people I was on the phone with. I asked to whom I might speak to register a complaint - ah, joyous, the same general "customer service" line I was now on. I asked how I might contact the individual to whom I was speaking. Same phone number. Her supervisor? Same 1-800 general phone number. I was, admittedly, rather unpleasant, got her name, and ended the call.

Amazingly, I have actually not received another phone call. Whether it was the threat of being personally identified - although to whom I could do that with the single phone number that is evidently their entire customer service division, I don't know - or the fear of having to deal with me again, the "email to the head office" evidently was sent and did its work.

Now I'm left with just one question:

If's it's possible to get me off your gods-accursed phone list with a single email, why the hell was I fobbed off with two months of "it will be 6 weeks"?

Heartless bastards.

 

[shereads]

Going through my third attempted foreclosure in the last year, my second since I notified my mortgage companies that I finally had found employment that could cover my monthly expenses. That seemed to be the "alert the vultures" moment.

You cannot speak to anyone with any authority to change your account. It's impossible. You can calmly reason, scream, alternate the two... it makes no difference, since no one who actually speaks to a customer is empowered with the knowledge of who can actually make a decision.

In the meantime, trying to save enough to fend off the foreclosure folks, my credit cards keep raising my interest rates and reducing my credit limit, so that they charge me more than my minimum payment every month, with late fees and overlimit fees, and there's no way I can catch up, even though I finally found a job that pays me almost $60K! I was unemployed for most of 3 years, and even though I never used my credit cards, I owe thousands more than I did before. Almost all my money went for trying to keep mortgages current, and for COBRA health insurance payments.

I drained my 401k, and got docked a tax penalty since I did it before they foreclosed on me, and now I'm hindered at work because I don't have a credit card to use for travel prior to reimbursement - I have to get everything charged to a senior exec's card. It's humiliating.

The recent changes in bankruptcy laws, courtesy of BushCo, are indecent - particularly on top of the repeal of usury laws sometime int he 80s. Banks make huge profits on "fees", that amount to unconscionable returns on debt that they encourage at every opportunity.

Welcome to the abyss that awaits anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves faced with a bit of a hard time.

I know, honey. If you haven't already considered the idea and rejected it, think about (a) Non-profit credit counseling service. These can negotiate reduced credit card rate/payments on your behalf; (b) consult a bankruptcy attorney and see if you can benefit from the way the laws stand now - I don't think the new anti-little-guy changes have gone into effect yet. (c) Investigate refinancing your mortgage even at an unattractive rate, with enough cash-out to pay off other debts. At least the mortgage interest is deductible. (BushCo is threatening to change that as well, but it hasn't happened yet.) Google "home refinance" and you'll find a dozen companies that are eager to work with you. The rate will be highway robbery, but the sting goes away at tax time and if you're able to get out from under other debts and lower your monthly payment by extending the term of the loan, it may be worth it.

Btw, do NOT feel embarrassed about not using your own credit card for company travel. Companies that ask their employees to do so are asking you to assume certain burdens and risks on their behalf.

Financial advisors tell people who travel on company business to request a company card, one that is billed directly to the company, which authorizes the card to accept your signature for purchases. Companies that expect employees to front their travel expenses are asking you to assume certain burdens and risks that shouldn't be your problem.

I've known TWO people whose credit was damaged because of business travel, and another who was able to salvage her credit by paying $6000 out of her own pocket when her employer fell on hard times and couldn't reimburse her expenses.

An art director I worked with who had been forced to take a substantial salary cut to avoid a layoff, was asked to purchase his own $1500 airline ticket for a trip to #@!@ Bogota when it was under a State Department travel advisory. He refused. If he had agreed, it wouldn't have earned him a single day more of job security, because his name was already on the secret list of next-round layoffs.

The team player who volunteered to take his place was laid off, too.

In other words, if you can file bankruptcy and get this monkey off your back, go for it and don't look back. The bastards in power have their finger on the scale and they don't even care if we know. Use their rules against them while you can.

And never apologize for not using your own money for business travel. You're as likely be screwed as you are to be reimbursed.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Good words from shereads, Huckleman, but also be very careful with credit consultation firms. It's a major "growth field" for fraud, including some quite shockingly outright theft - companies counselling customers to pay their bills through the credit agency, who was supposedly negotiating with the creditors and distributing funds, but in reality keeping all of the money and doing nothing. Tread very warily, and check up with the Better Business Bureau to learn more about the credit agency. Even an agency that doesn't take your money directly can seriously damage your credit and finances if they give bad advice.

Shanglan

 

[shereads]

My bank began, for some reason, calling me at work with offers of various services. I cut them short quite savagely and demanded to be removed from the list. They agreed that they would. Two weeks later, they did it again. And another two weeks. And a fourth two weeks. Finally, I demanded to speak to a manager. Amazingly, I got one. It would, however, be difficult to convey in writing the fine blend of contempt, disinterest, annoyance and irritation with which I found myself addressed. Fortunately, I was more than sufficiently angry myself to ignore that and press the point home.

Interestingly, after having been told on each of the previous three calls that it might take up to 6 weeks for my records to be cleared, I was told by this individual that she would "send an email to the head office" and that I would definitely not receive another phone call. I had a strong suspicion that I was being fobbed off to get me off of the line. I asked to whom I might address a letter - surprise, the same people I was on the phone with. I asked to whom I might speak to register a complaint - ah, joyous, the same general "customer service" line I was now on. I asked how I might contact the individual to whom I was speaking. Same phone number. Her supervisor? Same 1-800 general phone number. I was, admittedly, rather unpleasant, got her name, and ended the call.

Amazingly, I have actually not received another phone call. Whether it was the threat of being personally identified - although to whom I could do that with the single phone number that is evidently their entire customer service division, I don't know - or the fear of having to deal with me again, the "email to the head office" evidently was sent and did its work.

Now I'm left with just one question:

If's it's possible to get me off your gods-accursed phone list with a single email, why the hell was I fobbed off with two months of "it will be 6 weeks"?

Heartless bastards.

I guess you haven't been notified about the lien on your house yet.

 

[Boxlicker101]

By any chance was this Nationscredit? They are the worst mortgage holders I have ever dealt with. I don't know if they are crooks or incompetents but they did try to rip me off until I fought back. I refinanced as soon as I could without penalty. If my mortgage ever gets sold to them again, I will refi immediately.

It isn't legal for them to change the terms of a contract once one has been signed. If you have an escrow account to pay into, they are required to tell you in advance if there is any change in it, such as incrreased propertyh tax or insurance.

 

[shereads]

Good words from shereads, Huckleman, but also be very careful with credit consultation firms. It's a major "growth field" for fraud, including some quite shockingly outright theft - companies counselling customers to pay their bills through the credit agency, who was supposedly negotiating with the creditors and distributing funds, but in reality keeping all of the money and doing nothing. Tread very warily, and check up with the Better Business Bureau to learn more about the credit agency. Even an agency that doesn't take your money directly can seriously damage your credit and finances if they give bad advice.

Shanglan

I second that. I'm not sure what certification you can look for other than a Better Business Bureau report. If you hook up with a legitimate credit counseling firm, you can find your monthly bills reduced sufficiently to keep your head above water while you seek other solutions.

 

[shereads]

By any chance was this Nationscredit? They are the worst mortgage holders I have ever dealt with. I don't know if they are crooks or incompetents but they did try to rip me off until I fought back. I refinanced as soon as I could without penalty. If my mortgage ever gets sold to them again, I will refi immediately.

It isn't legal for them to change the terms of a contract once one has been signed. If you have an escrow account to pay into, they are required to tell you in advance if there is any change in it, such as incrreased propertyh tax or insurance.

No, in fact this was a company I've used most of my adult life because they gave excellent service. Until recently.

They have my homeowners insurance and my mortgage, and the first sign that the Bobs had been there ("Bobs" are "Office Space" talk for efficiency consultants) was when the insurance half of the company warned me that the mortgage half of the company was late with the insurance payment that comes out of my escrow account each year, and that even though the two divisions are in the same building, they are on different floors and can't contact each other.