Born to Be Wild? The "wilderness" is burning, and environmentalists are to blame.

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Born to Be Wild? The "wilderness" is burning, and environmentalists are to blame.

Born to Be Wild?
The "wilderness" is burning, and environmentalists are to blame.

BY THOMAS J. BRAY
Tuesday, June 25, 2002 12:01 a.m. EDT

"It looks as if all of Colorado is burning," said Gov. Bill Owens last week after surveying the forest fires in his state. An even bigger conflagration is tearing through northern Arizona, sending thousands of residents fleeing for shelter as firemen struggled to contain a blaze that could consume a million acres before it burns itself out.

As somebody who saw the great Yellowstone fires of 1988 up close, I can understand the sense of shock. The scale of such conflagrations is simply terrifying. Smoke billows tens of thousands of feet into the air across the whole horizon; sheets of flame race across the landscape like a speeding train; weird colors boil and flicker within the clouds; nothing can stop it except Mother Nature herself.





What may be going up in smoke this year, however, is not just trees, houses and whole towns. It may be the concept of "wilderness." It's a distinctly American idea that hardened into an ideology of sorts in the 19th century, just as the frontier was closing, and it presupposes a separation between man and nature that is both scientifically and philosophically untenable. Wilderness was formally defined in the 1964 Wilderness Act as "an area where the earth and its community of life are untrammeled by man, where man himself is a visitor who does not remain."
Radical environmentalists believe wilderness is necessary as a biological reserve. But most of what has been preserved as wilderness is in areas that aren't terribly rich biologically, and most species seem to get along just fine, indeed thrive, in the presence of Homo sapiens.

Moreover, to appreciate nature as a spiritual, physical or aesthetic matter, one has to be in it--one has to trammel it, so to speak. One might be only a visitor, but visitors in the millions make for a permanent presence in our most popular "wild" areas. Indeed, the Wilderness Act itself shows the confusion. The wilderness areas, the act instructs, "shall be administered for the use and enjoyment of the American people in such manner as will leave them unimpaired for future use and enjoyment as wilderness."

Thus the question is not whether man will be present in and around wilderness areas, but how best to manage his presence. Recent scholarship has concluded that with the exception of a few inaccessible and inhospitable areas, the American landscape was very much trammeled even before the arrival of Columbus. American Indians had already spent millennia managing the landscape--through agriculture, fire and settlements of their own--well before the Europeans began appropriating property for themselves and clearing their fields in earnest.

Following the disastrous fires of 1910 in Montana and Idaho, in which 85 people died and three million acres were reduced to cinders, enlightened management called for fire suppression. Smokey the Bear became a symbol to successive generations of Americans with his signature line, "Only you can prevent forest fires." And all the while deadwood built up in the forests, waiting to ignite. Then modern environmentalism called for letting fires burn themselves out, because fire was "natural." The result was disaster. The buildup of tinder made for such catastrophic fires as those that burned Yellowstone in 1988. And it is what is fueling the conflagrations today.





After the Yellowstone fires of '88, the Forest Service, the National Park Service, the Bureau of Land Management and other agencies promised to revisit their policy yet again. "Controlled burns" were used, with varying success, to thin out the forests and their undergrowth. But a controlled burn raced out of control in New Mexico last year and nearly gutted Los Alamos. The only policy that has any chance of substantially reducing fire hazard in our overtimbered forests would thus seem to be selective logging--something that environmentalists bitterly oppose as a thinly disguised effort by loggers to regain access to federal lands.
In the environmentalists' view, man has no business encroaching on the forest primeval in any case. The real villains, they say, are overpopulation and sprawl. At a minimum, some sort of federal zoning may be needed to discourage settlement near wilderness areas. Never mind that the ideology of wilderness helps create demand for environmental amenities.

At bottom, then, what the fires may be telling us is that something is wrong with the very concept of wilderness itself. This concept hearkens back to a sort of natural utopia that never really existed--a state of nature that most of our forebears spent their lives struggling to overcome. (Having to clear a forest in order to grow food tends to give one a different perspective on the blessings of wilderness.) It also discourages clear thinking about how to manage areas that are justly prized for their beauty, wildlife and recreational promise. Why turn over yet more land to a federal government that can't seem to manage the land it already possesses?

You don't read about fires on forestland owned by private timber companies, which have long used controlled burns and selective logging to protect their assets. Farmers have an intense interest in maintaining the health of their land. Property owners willingly spend gazillions planting trees, flowers and shrubbery--and then protecting it from the elements. Is public ownership of vast tracts of land the only way to arrange for the environmental amenities that we seek? Europe seems to get along without "wilderness" areas, though nobody would deny it has a great deal of environmental charm.

Yes, wildfire is (for the most part) natural. Yes, the national forests of Colorado and Arizona will still be there after the fires. Trees are sprouting everywhere in Yellowstone. But it may take a century to fully regenerate the forests that were lost. And in any case most of today's "wilderness" areas don't look anything like the way they looked even a century ago. In preserving "wilderness" for future generations, we have a right to insist that it not be ruined for ourselves.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/tbray/?id=110001889
 
Diane Alden has a stunning series of articles on the conservation movement (one the last refuges of communism/socialism in America) if you are really interested.

I posted her latest prior to this thread.

Beat you to it.

No one cares...
 
The fires had more to do with the drought (worst in over 100 years) and the asian beetle that has been killing pine trees here for 25 years than the urban sprawl that is consuming Colorado. Cant blame the tree huggers for this one.
 
Can't disagree.......

......more strongly!

SaintPeter said:
The fires had more to do with the drought (worst in over 100 years) and the asian beetle that has been killing pine trees here for 25 years than the urban sprawl that is consuming Colorado. Cant blame the tree huggers for this one.

Saint, I don't think there is a beetle infestation in Arizona but you are correct that the drought is severe. All the more reason to properly manage the forests. We may not be able to control the weather but we can control the overabundance of ground fuel that is choking the forest floor. Some of the areas in Colorado and all in Arizona were scheduled for control burns over the past few years but liberal loving legislatures have made it impossible by implementing laws that allow one or two people to walk into court and stymie any action until it's too late, like now! Environmentalist groups and others have found ways to use those laws to all of our disadvantage. Most of the blame for the fires in the west can and should be placed directly at the feet of the environmentalists!

Koala, I have family in Show Low and Overgaard. My sister's home in Overgaard may already be gone, my daughter and son-in-law's home is right now being threatened on the edge of Show Low. Thank you for your sensitivity and concern, Fucktard!

Rhumb:mad:
 
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sean hannity and rush blame....guess who? and why not?everything is their fault.
 
paganangel said:
sean hannity and rush blame....guess who? and why not?everything is their fault.

Is this somehow an argument that environmentalists do not share in the blame? I guess if Sean and Rush declare the world to be a sphere you will dismiss that as "radical right wing tripe" and confirm the world's flatness! C'mon people, let's start trying to use our brains!:rolleyes:

Rhumb
 
if there's naturally occurring ground fuel, then there is. why do we always want to lay blame somewhere? and most often in the wrong place.
btw, i never said the thought was radical, but come on...bill and hillary responsible for the forrest fires?
 
paganangel said:
if there's naturally occurring ground fuel, then there is. why do we always want to lay blame somewhere? and most often in the wrong place.
btw, i never said the thought was radical, but come on...bill and hillary responsible for the forrest fires?

"Ground fuel" is not naturally occuring, that is what these threads have been about. Nature usually provides lightening induced fires that burn down in the moist undergrowth, cleaning out the low growth without producing the heat necessary for "crowning fires" that burn from treetop to treetop fed by tons of tinder below. I don't think we have blamed B&H, the problems came long before them. The problem arose decades ago when fires were viewed as evil and none were allowed to burn anywhere. That was the policy that doomed Yellowstone. The problem today is the laws that allow one person to
demand "environmental impact" studies to ad nauseum and to the detriment of the forests.

Rhumb:cool:
 
if a tree falls and without the aid of man, is this not naturally occuring? rush made the statement that Bill signed into law legislation that made it illigal to remove such "debris" and this was the reason for theuncontrollable fires.


my point stands. blaming them is a huge stretch. actually it's a flat out nutty idea.
 
paganangel said:
if a tree falls and without the aid of man, is this not naturally occuring? rush made the statement that Bill signed into law legislation that made it illigal to remove such "debris" and this was the reason for theuncontrollable fires.


my point stands. blaming them is a huge stretch. actually it's a flat out nutty idea.

When was the last time you were in a forest west of the Mississippi?:confused:

Rhumb:rolleyes:
 
Here's what they are saying:

If there were no forests, then there would be nothing to burn - so let's give all the forests away to the logging companies and let them provide a public service by clearing away those nasty combustible trees.

Anyone who doesn't see through this laughable bullshit should also be aware that there could be no child porn if we just kill all the children.

Duh.
 
Laurel said:
Anyone who doesn't see through this laughable bullshit should also be aware that there could be no child porn if we just kill all the children.

Duh.

excellent plan!
 
Laurel said:
Here's what they are saying:

If there were no forests, then there would be nothing to burn - so let's give all the forests away to the logging companies and let them provide a public service by clearing away those nasty combustible trees.

Anyone who doesn't see through this laughable bullshit should also be aware that there could be no child porn if we just kill all the children.

Duh.

Laurel most of the time you are sensible now you are making as little sense as Rush. you make it sound like everyone who isn't a tree hugger is out to whip the planet clean devoid of any natural growth.

there is a balance in there somewheres its not quite rush and it certianly ain't the enviro movement.
 
In the mid ninties there were a series of very large and dangerous wildfires in central Florida. Some were started by lightening, some by carelessness. However all started on state forest land and all were fed by over 20 years of overburden. That's how every investigator called it, including the state dept. of Natuaral Resources. The overburden was not burned of in the wet years or removed due the the States attempt to comply with federal guidlines.

However, Georgia-Pacific is the second largest private land owner in the state. Thousands upon thousands of acres of timber to feed the paper and plywood mills they own in the state. Not one acre of G-P land burned. Why? They remove the overburden on a regular basis. When the fires broke out, G-P sent their own fire crews out to secure their forests. When that was done, G-P sent their crews to aid the state fire fighters and they did so at their own expense.

Now as to the Los Alamos fire. In 1980 the Federal government bought a few thousand acres of land from the Baca Land and Cattle Co. (For those of a hitorical bent, this is the old Cabeza de Vaca land grant given to Cabeza de Vaca for his exploration of SE Texas. In 1972, Elmo C de Baca sold the grant, 417,000 acres to the then formed Baca Land and Cattle Company.) This acreage was the upper watershed for Bandolier canyon, home to Bandolier National Monument. Untill the sale, each year workmen for the BLCC would go into the watershed and remove the deadfall (overburden). On some years, residents of Los Alamos were encouraged to come in and help themselves to the deadfall for firewood.

The rest is history now. The Nat' Park Service attempted a 'controled burn' without checking the weather, or first removing the larger part of the overburden. The fire went out of control and jumped to Parjito canyon, the beginning of the mesa upon which Los Alamos was built. The fire swept over Parjito Mesa, destroying some 400 dwellings.

The story doesn't end there. The next canyon in the fires path was Santa Clara canyon. That property is owned by the Santa Clara Peublo tribe. The tribe clears the overburden each fall to use the timber as firewood for heat and cooking purposes. Santa Clara canyon did not burn.

The worst part of the fires in the west at this time of year is that the monsoon season starts in a week or two. Yes, the trees will return, but all those burned hillsides will become rivers of mud, sweeping down into the streams and rivers choking the fish and aquatic life that hold on barely in environments like the mountains. The only good news in all of this is that when the environment does recover, the deer and other animals dependent on browse will stage a dramatic recovery and so will the predators that hunt them.

But the article is correct. The removal of overburden is paramount to good land management. And good envirnment management would indicate the selective clear cutting of small areas, 5 to 15 acres at regular intervals, inorder to promote the growth of browse for the deer and the elk. The concept of a "virgin" wilderness is as silly as it is bad land management. If that is what's desired, then the only alternative is to outlaw ALL human activity in the wilderness. And if that is done, exactly who are we saving the land and it's beauty for?

And the last point is that an 'old growth' forest is the forest equivalent of a desert. Very little life is sustained by old growth forests and there is little bio-diversity. Even the bears don't go there.

Ishmael
 
Laurel said:
Here's what they are saying:

If there were no forests, then there would be nothing to burn - so let's give all the forests away to the logging companies and let them provide a public service by clearing away those nasty combustible trees.

Anyone who doesn't see through this laughable bullshit should also be aware that there could be no child porn if we just kill all the children.

Duh.
Hooey. First off, logging companies have a natural incentive to plant more trees, because if they run out, they're out of business.

Second, that's not what's being said. The problem is that the government doesn't allow selective cutting on federal land. If they did, they probably wouldn't have the time or resources to do it. But private companies would, if they could make money on what they harvest.

It's only natural. We prune trees; why can't we prune forests?

TB4p
 
RhumbRunner13 said:


When was the last time you were in a forest west of the Mississippi?:confused:

Rhumb:rolleyes:
what does that have to do with the price of ass in amsterdam?
 
"The fires had more to do with the drought (worst in over 100 years) and the asian beetle that has been killing pine trees here for 25 years than the urban sprawl that is consuming Colorado. Cant blame the tree huggers for this one."


Yes you can. It was preservation of spotted owl habitat that lead to the spread of the Asian Beetle. Urban sprawl is hardly consuming anything. Look at a nightime flyover and the distribution of lights across America.

Besides, global warming is opening up more of Canada to farming...
 
What is more productive?

A 20 year old or an 80 year-old?

If it's carbon sinks you are after, you need young, vigorous forests...

Laurel, your naiveté grows with each passing year. YOU NEED TO READ DIANE ALDEN before you turn into a caricature in the vein of REDWAVE…
 
Um, the big fire on the Western Slope was started by some idiot with a cigarette. The big fire on the Front Range was started by some bitch who lied about how the fire started over and over. Her first story was that she found an unattended (and illegal) campfire burning and tried to put it out. Then she said she started the fire to burn a letter from her ex. A few days later, the press announced that she'd been suspended from the U.S. Forest Service, where she'd been working as a forest technician, and she lit the fire on purpose so she could get the kudos for putting it out herself, only the fire got away from her.

I don't see ANYTHING to do with environmentalists in either of these two cases. They were both started by IDIOTIC HUMANS who ought to pay for the rest of their lives for all the damage they've done, including the deaths of the four Oregon firefighters who were on their way to help out at the Hayman fire.

Yes, one of our fires was caused by a problem in an underground coal seam that worked its way up to the surface and caught fire, but there's not a lot you can do about that. This is extremely dry country and we're in a drought most years. The longest rain we've had this year lasted less than 10 minutes.

We have a lot of fires here, but MOST of them could be prevented if idiots were careful where they toss their cigarettes, properly put out their campfires when they're done with them, to obey the fire warnings and posted signs in high risk areas, and to PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY'RE DOING. It's not like the rangers put up those warnings just for the hell of it. There's a REASON.
 
Colorado fires

Hayman Fire - 137k acres so far, 617 buildings lost, started by illegal campfire. Five times larger than the largest fire in Colorado History

Missionary Ridge Fire - 66k acres so far, 45 buildings lost, started by cigarette

Million Fire - 9k acres 13 buildings lost, started by illegal dumping

Coal Seam Fire - 12k acres, 40 buildings lost, natural causes

Dierich Creek Fire - 2.5k acres, suspected it was started by humans

Long Canyon Fire - 2k acres, suspected it was started by humans

Springer Fire - 28k acres, started by lightning

John James Fire - 5.7k acres, started by lightning

Lyttle Fire - 3k acres, started by training munitions at Fort Carson
 
White Rose.......

"I don't see ANYTHING to do with environmentalists in either of these two cases. They were both started by IDIOTIC HUMANS who ought to pay for the rest of their lives for all the damage they've done, including the deaths of the four Oregon firefighters who were on their way to help out at the Hayman fire.

We have a lot of fires here, but MOST of them could be prevented if idiots were careful where they toss their cigarettes, properly put out their campfires when they're done with them, to obey the fire warnings and posted signs in high risk areas, and to PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY'RE DOING. It's not like the rangers put up those warnings just for the hell of it. There's a REASON."


Environmentalists are not at all being blamed for "starting" the fires! And no, we can NOT prevent forest fires even if we create a human exclusionary zone from the eastern slopes of the Rockies to the shore of the Pacific! I would not argue that people should be more responsible, in fact I think that once the Rangers decide that a forest is at the "Extreme Danger" level, it should be closed completely.

The problem arises when environmentalists hinder the scientific management of the forest creating a virtual tinderbox that will explode with any ignition source! If you think fires are bad now wait until the summer thunderstorms arrive and literally hundreds are started each afternoon.

Over the past several decades environmental groups have stopped the harvesting of "down and dead" trees that people used for firewood as well as the use of control burns that consume the small lower growing trees and brush that do not have a bark layer thick enough to "save" them. A healty forest in the west is not a tangel of trees and bush that grows so thick that you can not easily hike through it. The proliferation of small trees take nutrients away from the established growth and weaken them to infestation and disease. A healthy forest in the dry poor soil of the western mountains is quite open with mature trees spaced well away from each other and a canopy that is open to the sun and rain above. When a fire is started there it should run rapidly along the ground burning little else than pine needles and grass.

Rhumb
 
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What was God thinking, supposing that Adam could take care of the garden, and prevent the catastrophe of letting it run wild?

Stupid God.
 
phrodeau said:
What was God thinking, supposing that Adam could take care of the garden, and prevent the catastrophe of letting it run wild?

Stupid God.

God had a simple solution- Fire

If you think fires are a good thing, then don't manage the forests.
 
The summer thunderstorms started several weeks ago, though we haven't had the tornados yet. But look how the majority of the fires were started by humans...and most of them doing something illegally to begin with.
 
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