Bonds got 600, Will Sosa get 500?

[HeavyStick]

he's at 489 right now, does he have a shot?

(this season)

 

[bearlee]

Depends when the season ends I suppose. Baseball at one time was my favorite sport to follow and play. Not sure I give a shit anymore. I like the old days(I'll date myself here) when you could name a starting line-up and know it would be around, you know, like the old Yankees. Kubek, Richardson, Tresh, Mantle, Maris, Howard, Skowron(sp) and Boyer.

 

[Lasher]

This season? At the rate he's going he'll have it by the end of the week.

It's meaningless anyways. His numbers are enhanced by steriod use, expansion, watered down pitching, the shrinking of the strike zone, the juiced ball, harder bats, corked bats, smaller ballparks, the hole in the ozone layer, and NAFTA.

 

[HeavyStick]

This season? At the rate he's going he'll have it by the end of the week.

It's meaningless anyways. His numbers are enhanced by steriod use, expansion, watered down pitching, the shrinking of the strike zone, the juiced ball, harder bats, corked bats, smaller ballparks, the hole in the ozone layer, and NAFTA.

hippies,

you forgot hippies

 

[bearlee]

Yeah! Back in my day we had 16 teams, then 20. The only thing watered down was the beer and the whiskey the players drank, the strike zone went from ankles to almost the shoulders, batters were thrown at, the hole in the ozone was much smaller(of course the right field fence in a couple parks, like Yankee stadium was pretty short) and NAFTA, well there wasn't no fucking NAFTA back then. If there had been, boy, the balls would have flying out of the park!

 

[70/30]

OK-oldtimer, hang on to your pathetic past since it is all you have but don't push it on everyone else. 5 homers(14RBIs) in two games adds up quickly. I was watching Billy Wagner the other day and his pitches on an intentional walk were all 83-85mph. Pedro, Schilling, and RJohnson would silence any team in any era. Players are stronger and more fit than they've ever been-it's because of the weightroom and offseason work. Who gives a shit about steroids, you still have to put the work in. As for the detachment from the average JOE-I'm all for it-they are extraordinary athletes while you are a "has been" you should feel alienated.

 

[bearlee]

Man, I leave to go home for the night and find out the next day I'm "has been" old fuck! Schilling, probalby good in any era. Maybe Johnson too. May even give you Pedro. This probably strengthens the case for today's hitters, but a long, long time there weren't set-up men and closers. Pitchers generally pitched the entire game.

Arms aren't developed that way today. It wasn't uncommon for pitchers to go 300+ innings in a season. Today, the hope is a starter can make it five innings(Schilling the exception I guess).

I didn't say anything about steroids, but I don't see where a marginal player, because of drug enhancement, is all of a sudden extraordinary- except maybe extraordinarily stupid!

But again, all of this come from and old-timer, has-been with a pathetic past, so I could be wrong!

 

[Lasher]

I was watching Billy Wagner the other day and his pitches on an intentional walk were all 83-85mph.

What kind of moron throws an intentional ball 85 mph? That's all you need to know about what's wrong with the game today.

 

[70/30]

Pitchers throw harder than in the past and sluggers hit it harder. More amazing defensive plays are happening, just flat out more exciting. We live in a different world than 2 and 3 generations ago. Forget about 300+ innings, people want to see it talent against talent, both sides laying it down. Tremendous game with the Cubs and the 'STROs today. Oswalt and Wood were coming after guys and serving up the heat. It's great to see even if it results in a 15run total. Setters and closers are an asset for the quality of play, no excuse for a letdown or fatigue. Oswalt for 7+, followed by Dotel and/or Wagner should win 8.5 out of 10, the new model just ups the ante, Wood needed to pitch much better.

I like the wildcard and Baseball Tonite paints the game in a better light than the other sports do. Politics and Economics are regrettable since we get enough of it in the real news but it is a branch of the entertainment industry, not a piously played game.

As for Wags INT walk routine, the stakes are high in a save situation in a big race, so why let down the intensity with 70mph tosses. He has enough problems with only a slider, a fastball, and a change to have a mental slippage.

 

[Oasis690]

500 isn't a question, sammy will have it by late august at the latest.
the bigger question is WHEN does sammy get to 700?
barring injury or unforseen events, sammy should avg at least 40 hrs the next 4 yrs or so, that would put him at 37 with roughly 660.
he has stayed in good shape his entire career and has avoided the dl except for once, so he has as good a shot as anyone to reach 700 and even break aaron's record.

 

[Meltzer]

as long as he keeps taking steroids sure, no problem. take a look at sammy four or five years ago, he wasnt that big. now... yikes!

 

[Lasz]

What kind of moron throws an intentional ball 85 mph? That's all you need to know about what's wrong with the game today.

The moron that has a baserunner that can manage to steal 2nd if he throws a 75 mph ball.

 

[Lasz]

as long as he keeps taking steroids sure, no problem. take a look at sammy four or five years ago, he wasnt that big. now... yikes!

Well lets just say if the moron owner on the south side didnt trade him, he would have a ring around his finger right now!

Have you read the Rick Reily interview? Kind of interesting.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2002/07/02/life_of_reilly/

 

[70/30]

as long as he keeps taking steroids sure, no problem. take a look at sammy four or five years ago, he wasnt that big. now... yikes!

Genes and the weightroom are the major reasons. Go to a gym once in your life. I'm a young buck with a slight build that has been lifting basically everyday for 2 years-on a good day I can get 250 up. Look at 45+y/o guys that look plump and don't look spectacular but are lifting vets-I see them breezing sets of 260. Talent is knowing your talent gets better in time. If you have a good build, flexibility, speed, hand eye coordination, and a head for the game you can be special. Sammy is an amazing physical specimen infinitely better athlete than McGwire. What is amazing is AROD, he is racking homers up but it still takes a long time to get 700 even averaging 45 a year. That guy doesn't use ROIDs-I'll put a grand on it.

 

[Meltzer]

yeah i read the reily interview. rather interesting really. all the players are on one type of steroid or another, its just some of them are legal in baseball. call them muscle builders if you like or supplements, whatever. they are still causing an unnatural effect in the body that would not otherwise be possible. willy mays hit 660 homeruns. they guy weighed 130 soaking wet and never used one steroid in his life.babe ruth was considered a large man and barry bonds out weighed him 15 pounds the game is tainted, so very tainted.

 

[HeavyStick]

at what point and time in baseball history did it become tainted..... Day 1

most players look for an edge, greasing balls, filing nails , scuffing balls, corking bats, etc etc

It's alarming how some people talk of days of old as the golden age of baseball like it was the holiest of times of sports history. Lots of stars in the 20's 30's and 40's used substances that boosted perfomance.
The arguement lies in your loyalty. younger people will stick up for the younger players. older fans will do the same.

At least today we have the technology to point out a cheat and a fraud (chemical abuse)

 

[Lasher]

The moron that has a baserunner that can manage to steal 2nd if he throws a 75 mph ball.

Well, then he's really a BIG MORON...

If he's got a guy on first who can steal second if he only throws 75 mph, WHY THE FUCK is he intentionally walking the batter? Seems you'd only do that if he had an open base to work with.

Sammy's got a bigger problem than the juice. He doesn't hustle. He's so busy hopping and skipping his lazy ass down to first... I actually saw that fuck hit a single of the top of the wall in straight away centerfield at PNC Park earlier this year. That's Sammy's problem.

Now, I'm not going to begin to lump all of today's players in a group and say they suck. There's guys out there who appreciate the game and play hard... Guys like Arod and Garciaparra and Curt Schilling would be successful in any era.... But the game is different today than it was 20 years ago... And in 1982 the game was different than it was in 1968, and so on. 20 years ago a guy like Curt Schilling would make 40 starts in a season like he's having and pitch 20 complete games. 30 years ago he would've had 40 starts and pitched 30 complete games.... If you don't believe me look up the stats for Steve Carlton's 1972 season.

One of the advantages that a lazy bastard like Sosa has is that he could possibly go the entire season without facing the 2 best pitchers in his league. If you go back to 1960 when there were only 8 teams in the NL each team played 22 times and with 4 man rotations it's possible that Sammy could've faced Schilling and Johnson 10 or 12 times total and more than likely 4 plate appearances each time. I honestly think it's watered down pitching more than anything else that's made the game what it is now... Just a half step above slow pitch softball.

 

[HeavyStick]

Sosa has 43, the strike is 12 days away and he has 11 games.