Blame the real culprits, the parents

[RisiaSkye]

Let me preface this by saying that I mean no offense to those among you who are responsible, active parents. I have nothing but the respect for the difficult task of healthy child-rearing and for those who do it.

Having said that...I am continually mortified by the blind eye we turn as a society to the responsibilities which are routinely neglected by parents.

Tonight, I watched news of another child murderer's arraignment. A parent knowingly allowed their child to be taken care of by an abuser. The child was killed by the abuser.

Six teenagers beat and rob Mexican migrant workers. Why? For kicks. Their parents solution: expensive retainers and the advice of civil rights experts. Make sure those babies weren't harmed by the nasty police, sure. But don't try to keep tabs on where your drunk minors are on a school night.

Depressed and psychotic students break in and blow up school. Blame music, blame pharmaceutical companies, blame gun manufacturers and video game companies. Don't wonder for a moment why their parents didn't notice what they were building in the garage, discussing online, and planning for a full year.

Are all of these things related? Absolutely, even the child's death. Because you can bet, if that child had lived to the ripe old age of fifteen or so, we would have been in for a real treat--a bender of destruction. Alternately abused and ignored, that child was a ticking bomb.

It is a difficult, time and energy consuming, life-long job to raise a child. Any parent worth their salt will tell you this, and tell you that they love it and wouldn't trade the experience for anything. If you don't have the time or energy to raise a child--don't have one. Please. I beg of you.

I know that practically everyone has to have more than one income just to get by. I'm not for sending people back into the home, I know what the dangers of that path are, as do we all. (Absentee and uninvolved Fathers, listen up. The future you've not helped to raise is here, and taking prisoners.) I also know that money isn't the problem; as my students evidence daily, wealthy parents are no better at raising children than poor ones. So, what is going on?

How can we live in a world filled with birth control opportunities and still be producing babies that no one wants, at least not enough to take an active interest in their lives? How can it be that people are desperate enough to submit to the torture of fertility treatment, and yet we have hundreds of daily reports of abuse and neglect, alongside untold thousands of families in which literally NOBODY is parenting? No one is going to do this child-raising thing for us, at least not if any of us are going to retain our freedom.

I shudder to think that the day is approaching when I can't buy the CDs, view the movies, play the games, and have the conversations that I want (as an adult, a free citizen and a voter) because the government had to step in and raise America's children. We've seen what the government makes of the drug war, why would we entrust them with raising children?

How can it be that we have come to an era of legislating common sense? If you don't want your children viewing violence, screen what they watch. If you want to know what they see at school so that you can prepare for and discuss it, and make educated decisions about your feelings on the subject--visit their school, ask questions and demand answers. If you want to keep them out of trouble, get them involved in sports, clubs, church, anything. Keep them too busy to pick fights.

Ask them about what's going on, so that you aren't the last to know when they're getting harassed daily. Don't be afraid to actually use the dreaded "D"--discipline. It's not a dirty word. You don't have to beat them within an inch of their lives to keep a close eye on them and take responsibility for their actions. After all, your job is to do just that, to teach to how to become responsible themselves. In the end, as many of us know, they may just thank you for the effort.

And please, if your child wears nothing but black, takes psychoactive drugs, has a history of mental problems, and starts "fiddling around" with something in the garage every night, check under the bed to make sure there's nothing more dangerous than a stack of _Playboy_ magazines hiding under there and just waiting to bite us all in the ass.


[Edited by RisiaSkye on 10-06-2000 at 03:07 AM]

 

[Laurel]

Hallelujah and Amen. Not to say that problem kids are the result of bad parenting, but good parents need to be aware of what their kids are up to. They need to help their kids through any emotional crises they have. It's not any easy job, but if you want easy then don't have kids. Plain and simple.

 

[Merelan]

True to the core. That is why I chose not to have children. Don't get me wrong, I love the little knee highs. But I felt that my husband and I would not make the best parents. So, we chose not to. Simple. I know it is different when you have your own, you can't give them back.
Because of this decision, which I stand by firmly as the best for us, I have had to deal with a bunch of crap over the years. So many people think its unnatural for us to not have them. That I am an unfullfilled woman, somehow not as attractive, for choosing not to be a birth mother. Well, they can think whatever they want. I am happy and fulfilled with my life the way it is. Sure I wonder what our kids would have been like. We all have might have beens and what ifs in our lives. But I opted not to play with another human beings life. I cannot even tell you how many times I tried to justify my decision. I no longer try. Except, isn't that what I am doing right now? Oh well.
Just thought I would try to explain, that there are those out there that thought ahead and chose not to. I just wish more people thought like this.

 

[Expertise]

Bravo! In fact FUCKING BRAVO!

No one even seems to want to take responsibility for their own actions anymore, let alone their childrens.

I had an unhappy childhood, daddy didn't love me enough, no one likes me, my parents didn't/don't understand me..... CRY ME A FUCKING RIVER!

YOU and only YOU are responsible for your actions. Accept it. In addition YOU are responsible (ultimately)for the actions of your off spring until they reach the age of majority and even then.....

I wish that people would stop fucking whining, step up, and take some responsibility for themselves and their children, instead of looking for scapegoats. Because folks, if your child becomes a fuck up, sociopath, irresponsible idiot burden on society there are only two things responsible.... the parents and the child. Not the school system, not government, not your parents, not society. Just you and the child. You need not look further than the mirror for a scapegoat or if not a goat at least a horses ass,

The next time I see a parent trying to "reason" with a two year old.... I swear i'm gonna' fucking snap!

 

[Gus]

Thank you all!!

Thank heavens, it IS our parent's fault that we are as we are. I was brought up with the idea that I was responsible for my own actions. Bad parents bad!

The nature/nurture has been solved by the all knowing Literotica board members. We could now save much of our education funds by closing down whole departments at Universities.

Stop posting to those people who are upsetting you. Ask for their parents addys, then give them a good telling off.

If only we could have got to Hitler's Mum in time.

 

[Cheyenne]

Excellent thread.

I think too many parents have children just because they are "supposed to", they don't even think about it. The cliche American dream of marriage followed a year or two later by "starting a family." Children are such a huge responsibility- more than marriage itself. You can always divorce your spouse if the marriage doesn't work out, but your kids are yours forever. If you don't know exactly why you want children, or how you will support them, or where the time will come from to nuture them, please don't have them in the first place. Children shouldn't have to raise themselves.

 

[forgetunome]

Excellent Thread

Originally posted by Merelan
Don't get me wrong, I love the little knee highs. But I felt that my husband and I would not make the best parents. So, we chose not to. Simple. I know it is different when you have your own, you can't give them back.

I am with Merelan, I know my mother was quite upset when I told her that we weren't having children. But, I feel we made a good decision. It's not like I don't know what it takes after all I come from a family of nine and I had a wonderful mother and father who practiced patience and loving care and also discipline when we got off the beaten path. I didn't feel like I could be a mom like my mother. I am not a patient person...and I don't think a child deserves that. I also have 50 nephews and nieces and the greats are popping out all over. I love babies up until they are about 2 years old and then they start with the talking and throwing tantrums and yes I know you work with them, that's what I don't have the patience for. I love my nephews and nieces and have fun with them but I am so happy to go home to peace and quiet. I know my husband feels the same way we've discussed it. And yes we have heard the old argument but, when they are your own it's different but...if you have your own and it isn't where do you take them to give them back....exactly....why make it hard on the child. We live in an age when we can make conscience descisions and I don't feel like I can make the kind of mother that I would want to be so I opt to be a very good auntie. I also feel the wrong reason to have children is because your friends are, or your parents expect you too. My parents have gotten over it, his parents were pretty cool they said, "Hey you have to raise them it's your decision." Children deserve to be wanted 100% and planned for.

Okay I have dismounted my soapbox! LOL!

 

[BrainyBeauty]

Great topic-sorry I got on my soap box

Kudos to you Expertise for bringing up personal responsibility! And to you Risia for starting this topic.

I am appalled and shocked on a daily basis anymore at the stupidity, folly and behaviors of some segments of our society.

I don't know what scares me more- that people don't seem to know the difference between right and wrong anymore or that they don't care. When did apathy become a major personality trait in the human animal? Or at least tell me when it became so prevalent.

How many times have I heard reports or seen video coverage of criminals- no matter what age- showing a complete lack of respect for themselves and their fellow human beings? It aggravates me to see defendants on trial showing no remorse for their crimes. Even worse, they demonstrate a sort of pride or boasting about it. Their only regret is from getting caught- not from realizing the impact of their actions.

I think what upsets me the most is the increasing trend that people all over the world seem to share - do it if it feels good. This new decade/century/millennium is fast becoming the new ME generation. What is in it for ME? How will things affect ME? What can I get for ME? Someone spoke to the issue of entitlement on a recent thread. I have been warning friends about this dangerous trend for several years now.

These kids today (gosh now don't I sound like MY parents? LOL !!!) seem to pop out of the womb believing that they are entitled to things. Gosh, I'll get a job but I want to be president of the company making $100,000 a year say, in a week. If I don't get it, I'm outta here.

Excuse me....what the heck happened to the work ethic? I was raised on the premise that you have to work hard for what you want. You have to earn it. There is no such thing as a free lunch. You always try to do things to the best of your ability. You may not always succeed, but at least you are the better for trying. And you learn a bit about building character in the process. No one is going to spoon feed you things on a silver platter.

Or will they? You talk about parenting- and the lack thereof. Sometimes, too much of the wrong type of parenting is just as harmful and destructive as those who ignore their children. What about the overzealous parents who focus on social status or monetary concerns and who want little Susie or Johnny to have everything. A kind of pint-sized version of 'keeping up with the Joneses?' You know the folks who think My kid HAS to have the latest Nintendo or PlayStation. He has to have the $200 Nike shoes. Of course my kid needs to drive a new BMW! Please- someone tell me how a child learns anything from being spoiled and treated as if the sun, moon and stars revolve around them?

Oh and let's not forget the downfall of the family- does anyone ever eat together anymore? When I was growing up we had breakfast and dinner together every night. We discussed everyone's day and any issues that came up. We talked about current events and how that impacted everyone.

Not today's families who shuttle Ashley to ballet and Michael to soccer every afternoon and evening - to the detriment of the whole family. Does anyone even talk to each other anymore? Is it any wonder these parents are clueless what some of their kids are up to in the garage or what they are hiding under the bed? There was a public service advertisement on television a few years ago that was dead-on accurate. Showed kids skateboarding in a suburban cul-de-sac setting while the voice-over said Did you know 40% of kids who do drugs are from the inner city? Pause..more pics of sunny, happy suburbia....Voice "Guess where the other 60% are from? " So true!

And even those who are 'there' don't seem to be faring much better. Why is it now the norm to allow kids to have phones (cell phones even!) pagers, etc.? And computers in their rooms? Again, I was expected to do my homework every night before I could enjoy the rewards that went along with the responsibilities. Nowadays, all I read about is parents and children complaining about the amount of homework. And the adults seem to be doing the majority of the work. Again, what does a child learn that way? I did all my own work. My parents would check it, but if there was something wrong, they sent me back to do it over. They did not give me the answers!

People don't seem to have the first clue what priorities to have.

I won't even bother to address the issue of parents- from whatever socioeconomic categories who ignore their children and rely on the school system or government programs to raise their kids.

Personal responsibility has gone the way of the dinosaurs. And why wouldn't it when we make it so easy for people to blame someone else. How easy is it to file a lawsuit for every single thing these days. (No offense to Siren, Blue or Simply Southern and the other attorneys here!) My biggest complaint about this issue is Why do people think there are such things as rules? Why do we have laws? If no one is going to follow them and just go out and file a lawsuit because they don't get what they want....

For example:
"I want my kid to be able to wear black lipstick and T-shirts promoting sex and violence. Dress code at school? BAH! Call my attorney. It doesn't apply to me!"

"I'm a professional athlete and I can speed, get drunk and act stupid or molest a woman in a hotel room because I CAN! The rules don't apply to me!"

"I don't want to wait in this long line of traffic. I will just cut in front of everyone or drive over here on the median. The laws don't apply to ME!"

Corporate America/private sector business is no better than the government. Where is their loyalty? When profits overtake all sense of compassion, responsibility and doing the right thing the foundation starts to weaken and crumble. Political correctness is worming its way into every facet of life and further eroding the stability of societal interactions.

I think we need to get back to basics. Respect. Work ethic. Compassion. Family. Golden Rule.

I am so sorry this turned into such a diatribe- especially so early in the morning. Lucky for you all, the repairman is finally finished with his work and I must head off to work finally! Thanks for your patience and indulgence in reading this long post.

 

[Purple Haze]

Kudos, need I go further to suggest that parents should be held responsible for the pieces of shit they unleash on the world? That's all.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Some pieces of shit are born not made PH. I think that we need to evaluate the situation of each piece of shit before we generically assign blame to their parents. However, parents still need to have more responsibility attached to them by the actions of their children. The flip side of the coin is that we need to stop called social services every time we see parents discipline their children in ways we may not agree with. Paying attention is probably the best thing we can do. More than just watching to make sure they don't become Unabomber Jr. But being an active part of their lives. Showing you care about them does more than anything, in my opinion.

When we lived in California we lived in total fear that the state would take our son away from us. Why? Because a spanking is the only punishment he responds to. Mostly the threat of a spanking works enough to stop it, but there are times when we are forced to follow through. He has such a strong sense of self and such an incredibly strong imagination that he doesn't need toys, tv, radio, other people to entertain him for hours on end. He is just as content humming in a corner as he is playing with his friends. So we could not discipline our child in the state of California in the most effective method. After all, a good spanking is child abuse, just ask people who don't have kids and have no common sense. I'm not talking belts, spoons, or other implements, bare hand to covered butt, it literally hurts us worse than it hurts him.

Uh, no, positive reinforcement is not discipline. Its extremely effective at teaching self discipline, but it is not discipline. We use it all the time. Some people can't believe that my son is an only child because he is so sharing, giving, and well behaved. I am a proud mama.

 

[teresafannin]

This is so true. I was a single mom the first 5 years of my son's life & for the last 3,due to circumstances that I have talked about on other threads. My son's step-dad & I worked very hard to raise a responsible young man & I feel we succeeded. It meant some sacrifices, I turned down job promotions that would have required me to travel, but I didn't have a child to let someone else raise him. When my son got involved in different activities, we got involved right along with him. When he didn't do his homework, we met with the teachers, lilstened to them both & then made sure he did his homework. When he was 14 & got a curfew violation, I went to Teen Court with him. He put in his own plea, admitted to the judge what he had done & paid the consequences. When he & a friend got caught with alcohol, same deal. He didn't get his license until the fines & court costs were paid. He didn't get his truck until he had a job & was doing well in school.After those 2 experiences witht he law, he got his life together & was doing a great job with school & work. I was not the perfect parent & he was not the perfect child, but we did the best we could.I totally know what KM is talking about with regard to SS & CPS. When JM acted up, he got a spanking. I would never abuse my child, but a pop on the bottom didn't hurt me & it didn't hurt him.
Parents can do everything right & still end up with a messed up kid. We have a society that loves labels. Just because I was a single parent, when my son started Kindergarten, he was immediately labeled an "At-risk student". I was furious & made them change his transcripts. WTF is up with labeling a 5 year old at risk? The man who murdered my son & 6 others came from a nice middle-class family. At some point in his life, things began to go wrong, he was very seriously disturbed. I spoke last night at a town hall meeting on mental illness. It took the deaths of 8 people here in FW to make our state realize how little help is out there. It has to start in the home, ultimately parents need to be held accountable for their children. America has become a disposable society,we throw away soda cans,we throw away our kids. Sorry for the soapbox, but this is a subject close to my heart. What hurts the most is that I tried to do everything right & my son was taken away from me.

[Edited by teresafannin on 10-06-2000 at 07:49 AM]

 

[CreamyLady]

Excellent thread.

I had one child. I always thought I'd have more, but as it worked out, one is really all I could cope with. She isn't a terrorist, really, and never was. She was a normal child, and she was exhausting.

I had to work -- single mom -- and I have my own theories about the ruination of kids. It isn't the working outside the home, so much. It's the absolute exhaustion of the parents' resources that does it.

Think about it: you have to get up at an ungodly hour to feed everyone, fix lunches, take the kids to day care and then get to work. The commute is usually awful. You work as hard as you can, as fast as you can, because you can't be late picking the kids up. Generally, when you do, you realize that you are out of milk, or diapers, or laundry soap or some necessary item, and that involves a stop at a store, with lots of other frantic working parents.

The evening is best glossed over. I just wonder how we think it is possible to be a good parent, involved with every aspect of our kids' lives, when we are so damned tired and used up every day.

This isn't an excuse, or even an apology. Many people manage to cope, and most kids aren't really horrors. But society as a whole seems to have more invested in one's place in the working world rather than in one's performance as a parent.

I really think it is long past time to look at what we are doing to ourselves and our kids by giving in to the outrageous demands of work. It is hard to avoid working overtime; it is hard to keep up a galloping pace in a go-getting atmosphere. It's hard to maintain any kind of balance if the message is always "Measure up; you can be replaced."

Hell, we are even being told that as parents. So -- what are we doing? Who are we pleasing?

Shit. WHY are we doing it?

 

[Whispersecret]

Long-Assed Post Warning

I think more people should get on soapboxes! I think all the points here are well-made! I agree with everyone so far, which is a strange phenomenon in itself.

One thing to add: Self Esteem.

As a teacher, I'm very aware of the big push for boosting kids' self esteem. (I spoke very briefly of this in some other thread.) Now, I believe that everyone should have something about themselves that they are proud of. HOWEVER, the idea of self esteem has been blown out of proportion and distorted into something that actually does more harm than good.

What I see is kids getting trophies for mere participation in a contest or for just being on a sports team. What the hell is that? What does that teach the child?

I'll tell you. The child learns that he doesn't have to do a damn thing to be recognized and praised. There, ladies and gentlemen, is the seed for ENTITLEMENT. If you give trophies to kids just for playing the game, when do they learn about how to work hard and practice in order to win the championship? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, it's not about winning. True. Team sports should be about sportsmanship, working together, etc. However, don't lose sight of the lessons to be learned when you don't get a trophy.

I see Awards Assemblies in which the teachers are expected (by parents) to give each and every child in their class some sort of award, be it "Good Effort in Staying Awake" or whatever. Again, WTF?

When a child gets an award or is praised for something that they don't deserve, they know it. Deep down inside, they know they're not up to snuff, and so, instead of boosting their self-image, you're making them feel guilty about accepting undeserved kudos.

Also, it cheapens the awards that are truly deserved. I hear from the parents, "But it's not fair! It's always the same kids that get the awards!" So what? They EARNED them. Life isn't fair. It's not supposed to be.

If people falsely praise their kids all the time, the kids will learn not to believe it when the praise is actually deserved. OR, they'll go through life thinking they're God's gift to the world and that they deserve everything stinkin' benefit, reward, etc. that exists.



[Edited by whispersecret on 10-06-2000 at 09:40 AM]

 

[Earthmuffin]

emphatic agreement and a little soap box of my own.

The answer to the question about birth control options and the population increas has a simple answer: apathy. The "It won't happen to me and oh well if it does" attitude gets ya every time.

I personally wanted to be a Mommy, and after a good deal of hard work, I was rewarded with my munchykins. As a (now)single parent, I probably over-indulge my munchy's out of guilt or stress. I also have routines for them to stick to rules to obey and consequences if they don't. They have manners, they have age-appropriate chores, they have enough toys to choke a horse. If they step out of line whilst we are in public, they know I'm going to call them on it. If you are standing nearby and don't appreciate it, too damn bad. You don't live in my home, and you don't know what has come before. You also don't want my munchy's taking the store you're shopping in apart because I can't (fear of DHS or the cops) or won't (apathy, "it's just a stage") rein them in. I refuse to throw my hands up and decide at their young age that society gets to decide how they will mature. Nature argument...the munchy's parents both have alcoholic genes. Nurture argument....they already know about alcohol and its potential to cause chaos in their lives. Those lessons along with others will be reinforced. And should they run afoul of the rules as teens I will stand with them as Teresa did her son. Natural consequences can be wonderful life lessons.

*damn this soapbox got big in a hurry* Ok, I'll shut up now, great thread RS!

 

[Whispersecret]

<gets back on the the teacher soapbox>
Okay, I'm not quite finished.

(First, let me say that I don't think you're lousy parent if your kid is in daycare. I realize that for some people there is no other option. However, there are plenty of people out there who, if they lowered their standard of living just a little, could afford to make a different choice.)

I am seeing these storefronts pop up in strip malls where kids can be dropped off to work on computers afterschool. Kids are supposed to be enriched here by personalized programs that hone their academic skills. Their self-esteem is supposed to be boosted from a personalized reward system. THey're monitored by "trained staff members."

Here is one more parental responsiblity being paid for. Here is one more place where we can drop off our children and let some one else take over responsiblities that should be ours. Is it any wonder that parents of middle class hoodlums don't realize what's going on right under their noses?

The value of doing school work at home with parental supervision and interaction isn't just in the completion. Homework is for reinforcing skills and concepts, yes, absolutely. However, it's also a valuable opportunity to show children how important education is to you.

Yeah, they MIGHT get the idea that education is important to you if you pay for them to get extra help at one of these places. But you can be damn sure they'll get the message if YOU personally give up some of YOUR time to sit with them and do flashcards or to go the library to research a report.

Also, I can't tell you how much pressure I got from parents who complained about the homework because their kids were too busy after-school. Tuesdays it's dance. Mondays and Wednesdays are soccer practice. Thursday they have piano. The list goes on and on. Or the parents flat out admitted that the homework didn't get done because they were at karate and the kids were too tired afterward. WTF???? Since when did extra-curricular activities become more important than schoolwork?

I think people are being suckered into shoving their kids into all these programs because they don't want their kids to miss out. Everyone in the neighborhood is in soccer. So and so is a black belt. Yada yada yada. Not to mention the fact that it's sort of a badge of honor if you can complain about how busy you are and how involved your kids are.

The saying "put your money where your mouth is" isn't working with kids. Don't pay someone else to raise them. Think about how much daily time you actually spend with your kids. Think about how much daily time your kids are with other adults (daycare, school, afterschool programs). I would be afraid of how my kids would turn out if the ratio is too heavy in favor of other people and not me or my husband. And yes, the daycare staff may very well be kind and caring, but don't forget the adult to child ratio there. Those workers aren't going to see everything. THey only have so much attention they can give.

Again, I don't mean this as an attack aimed at anyone whose child is in daycare. I just wish people would think about the long term consequences before making decisions affecting their children just because that's what everyone does these days.

 

[Expertise]

Perfectly stated IMHO

Whipersecret I have never in my life agreed more wholeheartedly with a post.

Bullseye! Bravo! Thank You!

The first one I haven't read partII yet.

 

[Latina]

Wow, a thought-provoking thread here indeed!

Parenting is the damndest hardest work anyone could ever do. The following is hard for me to share, I don't tell people about this usually, but I wanted to contribute to this thread because it is a topic that is important to me.

My first husband and I opened our hearts to an unwanted 6-months-old boy and adopted him. The boy's birth father was 19, mother was 14 and a date-rape victim. Almost from the first, he was a difficult, strong-willed and rebellious child. We had to start counseling with him at the age of two (hitting and biting other kids), and he has been in counseling off and on ever since.

First husband had a lifelong kidney problem, had had a transplant as a young man, was NOT to have ANY sugar, but liked to drink soda by the gallon. After 14 years of marriage, his kidneys started to shut down and to shut the rest of his body down too, and he died a slow, lingering death over the course of 3 years. That left me to raise our son, then age 5, by myself, and I blamed first husband for not taking better care of himself (laying off the sugar) to be there to raise our son together. It was hard working two jobs and raising a child; friends and relatives babysat him a lot (as Hilary said, it take a village to raise a child), until I met Frank three years later. Frank is strong and doesn't let people steam-roll over him, but even he had a hard time controlling our son for a while. Frank has been the dad for over 4 years now.

When we first married, our son resented it terribly, that he no longer had his mother 100% to himself, and lashed out at us verbally and physically. Many nights, we went to bed literally black and blue, or were kept up by his screaming and throwing things in a rage. Calls to police and social workers did no good: if he hits his parents that's hunky-dory with them, just as long as we don't DARE to lift a finger back against him in punishment, which would put US in jail! They would give this advice in FRONT of our son! Other forms of discipline carried no weight, because if he didn't want to do what we told him, he could always hit us and we couldn't hit back, so in effect police and social workers encouraged him to run the household and take control away from us. And they wonder why kids are SO screwed-up! We attended two series of parenting classes, they gave us a few new ideas how to deal with him, but eventually he would figure out what we were doing and find ways around it, and we had to invent more and more new strategies for regaining some amount of control.

One day, he got mad and threw a book at Frank's head while Frank was driving. The corner of the book cut Frank's forehead open. Frank had had enough, he went to the police and signed a complaint, our son (then age 11) spent two nights in juvenile hall, and came home scared and shaking. That was two years ago, and he hasn't hit us since. It is still a struggle to get him to do what we want him to, but he knows he can no longer get the upper hand and escalate it to violence, or he WILL go back to juvenile hall. Some would say we were mean and cruel to have our son arrested, but it has brought him back under SOME amount of control and there is hope now of him becoming a useful and productive member of society and not a gang member.

Our son (now 13) has a couple of DIFFERENT learning disabilities, and public schools have been hard for him. This year, for the first time, he is in a private school that specifically works with learning-challenged kids. It is VERY expensive, and we get NO government help or tax breaks in trying to help him overcome his challenges and prepare him for a useful and productive adulthood. We are having to live on Frank's income and use my income ONLY to pay for the school. He lives on campus, so we don't see him much, but we are in constant contact with him and his teachers by phone, mail, and email, so still very much guiding his life and his success in school. He is doing MUCH better in all academic subjects than he did last year, and he has made a few friends, but his rebel attitude has twice gotten him into minor trouble with the school this year: once for being in a girl student's room after hours (they were only talking, thank god) and once for smoking. Both times, he had to work it off by community service such as rubbish removal along the highway. After two such punishments at the start of the school year, he has not acted up since.

Yes, our son smokes...you noticed that? We took him to a program that told us smoking is often the first step toward using drugs. But this same program will NOT work to get him to stop smoking. They will NOT deal with a child at all until he is SERIOUSLY hooked on drugs. No effort to prevent getting hooked on drugs in the first place, just treatment once they become hopeless and helpless drug addicts. And then they get treatment only after they've been imprisoned and thoroughly punished for a couple of years for giving in to society's pressures to BECOME a drug addict! What a screwd-up attitude these drug programs have! Is it any WONDER parents don't know what to do any more?

Being a parent is the HARDEST thing any adult EVER has to do, and those whose knee-jerk reaction is to blame the parents for bad kids don't understand that. Yes, parents bear responsibility for their kids' behavior, but society does not provide much of a support network for that--kids are encouraged by police, social workers, TV, music, and movies, to do what they want, and their parents can go to jail if they try to stop the kid from acting up. We have been loving and suportive, and we have had small triumphs in guiding him along the right path in life, but it has been VERY hard to get there. Not looking for praise or sympathy, just a little understanding when you see a kid act up, and an exasperated parent not having an easy time changing the kid's attitude.

--Latina

 

[Expertise]

Latina I agreed with you right up to where you started blaming a lack of societal support.

Do I have sympathy for you? Absolutely.

However, you accepted that responsibility when you adopted him(Extremely laudible thing to do BTW.), And even though he is difficult that does not make him society's responsibility.

You seem to be doing all the right things under difficult circumstances. Keep it up, at least you realize he's worth it.

Sorry if I sounded harsh.

I am starting to feel that a degree in social work qualifies a person to be a complete fucking idiot.

 

[Latina]

Not saying he's society's responsibility. What I was trying to get across is society works at cross-purposes to parents, making the alredy-difficult job of parenting even HARDER, by telling kids to do whatever they want, and if mommy dosn't like it and spanks you, she's going to jail.

-- Latina

 

[Expertise]

My appologies Latina

We are in perfect agreement there. Thus my comment on social workers.

 

[teresafannin]

Good comments from everyone. Parenting was the hardest thing I have ever done until 9/18/99. That is the day I buried my son, he was only 17. To Latina, hang in there & do whatever it takes. Kids are so worth it. It is never easy, but it sounds like you & Frank are working hard to do what is right for your son. When my son started skipping school, we put him in a private, alternative school.He went to school in the morning & worked in the afternoon. The structure of this school was just what he needed & he would have graduated 6 months early, he worked so hard. There are no easy answers, but I do wish you well.

 

[Laurel]

Thank you all!!

Thank heavens, it IS our parent's fault that we are as we are. I was brought up with the idea that I
was responsible for my own actions. Bad parents bad!

The nature/nurture has been solved by the all knowing Literotica board members. We could now
save much of our education funds by closing down whole departments at Universities.

Stop posting to those people who are upsetting you. Ask for their parents addys, then give them
a good telling off.

If only we could have got to Hitler's Mum in time

LOL! I think RisiaSkye is referring to children, not adults. By the time you're 18 (or 16, or whatever's legal adulthood in your neck of the woods), you should know better. But there's a reason that children are not given the same rights as adults, and that's because children (no matter how bright they may be) lack the life experience to make solid choices. I certainly don't support blaming our every action on our parents for the rest of our lives.

In the US, there's a tendency of some parents to blame their' kid's deviant behavior on Society - Hollywood, our schools, the Devil, the kid next door, whatever. The parents, as the caretakers of the child, are the ones responsible for the child's behavior until he/she's old enough to take lgeal responsibility.

 

[Naked Hunny]

Ok Im a single parent as everyone knows and yes my daughter is at daycare while I work during the day and at sitters on the nights that I work but why do I work so hard so my daughter has a place to live!! If my daughter turns out to be one of those nightmarish children i know who im gonna blame the dick i mean her father!! I tried my hardest to get him involved in her life and he ran away why probably because he didnt want the responsibility. Well I just hope im a good enough parent that snickerdoodle doesnt even think she needs a father.

 

[teresafannin]

NH, there will be times when your daughter will want to know about her father, my son did. I was lucky in that my dad, male friends, my ex-husband & a teacher all took a lot of interest in my son.He had great male role models as he grew up. As he got older & asked questions, I was honest with him. I never bashed his birth father, but I also told him that some people can't accept the responsibility of kids. JM knew that I never regretted raising him & that it was his birth fathers loss because he missed out on seeing a great kid. The best advice I can give is to hang in there & if you ever need to talk, you have my email.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Thanks, Laurel

Thank you, Laurel, for addressing the "blame the parents for the actions of an adult" straw-man. It wasn't my point at all, as I tried to make clear. (although in a post that long and rambling, no one can be blamed for not understanding the intentions behind all of it.)

We are a nation of victims and entitlement-junkies, and it definitely affects our child-rearing policies. I am not saying that you blame a parent for the offspring's actions in adulthood; I am suggesting personal responsibility, which includes accepting responsibility for the actions of your (minor) child.

This is not always easy, and (someone, sorry, I forgot who) brought up the excellent point that even "good" parents can produce "bad" children. And that same person shared their own experience with having to exercise their right to use extreme measures (incarceration) in order to help their child learn how to live responsibly. Kudos to you for being willing to take that leap. THAT is exactly the kind of personal responsibility that is so often lacking. Of course you cannot micromanage every moment of a child's existence. But you can take action to prevent, and to change, behavioral patterns that threaten the child and others.

To NakedHunny, and others among you who are single parents: Make no mistake, I am not blaming you for the difficulties of raising a child alone. I personally believe that absentee parents should be shackled to their offspring if that's what it takes to get them involved. Being a single parents makes a difficult job next-to impossible, and you have my support and sympathy.

I absolutely agree that our society gives little support to the idea of actual discipline. We tend, as a culture, to assuage our guilt over sins of the past (our bad treatment of just about everybody but British white guys) and present (our hypocritical relationship to middle eastern oil countries, etc.) by making our children into national emblems of "the future". We feel bad about how we have treated and continue to treat everybody, so we'll deal with it by soft-touching our own children while we continue to screw over everybody else. But, they're our future, right? We've screwed it up, but they'll do it better.

They're ENTITLED to coddling and self-esteem, aren't they? We have to make them feel better, since we're miserably screwed up ourselves, right? No. Our future is here in more than symbolic form--and they're not gonna do any better a job than the slaveholding white guys who started things if we don't take an active role in showing them the things that we have already experienced and seen. More frighteningly, if we continue to instill in them the guilt-assuaging litany of entitlement credos, they are likely to screw it up EXACTLY like the guys we call our "forefathers" did--by thinking they are entitled to the world.