Black tie for a boi? Help!

[SkylarFalling]

Ok, so I'm discovering the whole being a boi is a part of who I am thing. I love it. Now I know why being feminine makes me so uncomfortable. It's 'cause men's clothing makes me feel good. I'm moved out, so I haven't told my mother yet (she's incredibly girly and has been trying to girlify me since I was about 7, hence I'm somewhat nervous about telling her).

Here is the problem. There is a wedding I have to go to in October (getting out of it is not an option) of a couple in my boyfriend's family. Clearly I don't want to go in a dress because it's going to be horrendously uncomfortable in the shopping, trying on, buying and actually going to the event in the bloody thing, but when the dress code is black tie what options does a boi have?

My mother is incredibly excited about the opportunity to dress shop with me, and to be honest whether I end up going as a girl or a boi, I'm gonna need her help, because I'm not very good at formal wear and she is, hence why she is a part of this whole mess of mine too.

Obviously I could just go the whole way, tell my mother and wear a men's suit, but I've never gone that fully public with my boi-ness before, and I'm worried about what everyone will think. It's a bit soon, given that I am certain being a boi is a part of me, but I'm understandably unsure about presenting this side of myself to the entire family of my other half!

So, my question (finally) is is there an in-between suit that is appropriate for a black tie occasion? Something won't mean I look obviously like a girl in a man's suit, something more androgynous. Does anyone know where to find such things (online or in store, I'm easy) and maybe even whether or not it would be black tie appropriate?

There is extra added pressure because I will be there with my boyfriend of since we were 12, and if I'm going to come out as boi in front of everyone, he has to endure the awkwardness with me, and I need to look good enough for him to be glad he is with me even though everyone in the room in probably judging him for being with me as much as they are judging me. If I get wrong we're both gonna look like morons.

Lol, this is all assuming I tell my mother and she doesn't disown me, anyway. If anyone has any ideas or advice, that'd be awesome. If I can't find something appropriate suitwise, I have to go in a dress, and I really, really don't want that.

Would it be worth reposting this in How To or do we get into trouble for that?

 

[sr71plt]

Well, do give a thought that the occasion isn't about you--it's somebody else's wedding. Wear something that doesn't make it about you, I suggest. If there has to be a bit of discomfort--and maybe there doesn't have to be; either know what the comfort level will be in the crowd or check that out--give a thought to who should be the adult and bear the brunt of that on such an occasion. No reason not to ask this question of those most involved in the occasion before asking it of strangers on a Web site.

 

[SkylarFalling]

um, ok. Well thank you. c:

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, well. That doesn't make me think you realize the occasion isn't about you. But, OK. You've asked for opinions.

 

[klippert]

I'm a little confused, in regard to you Boi'ness... but, I'll have to agree with Sr71... The wedding is for the Bride and groom, there respective families... Not your coming out party...

either bow out and send a card or just wear a woman's professional pant suit. you can invite everyone to your Boi formal party anytime you wish. I would suggest you tell your mum before she hears through the grapevine...

 

[bluesky496]

Ok, so I'm discovering the whole being a boi is a part of who I am thing. I love it. Now I know why being feminine makes me so uncomfortable. It's 'cause men's clothing makes me feel good. I'm moved out, so I haven't told my mother yet (she's incredibly girly and has been trying to girlify me since I was about 7, hence I'm somewhat nervous about telling her).

Here is the problem. There is a wedding I have to go to in October (getting out of it is not an option) of a couple in my boyfriend's family. Clearly I don't want to go in a dress because it's going to be horrendously uncomfortable in the shopping, trying on, buying and actually going to the event in the bloody thing, but when the dress code is black tie what options does a boi have?

My mother is incredibly excited about the opportunity to dress shop with me, and to be honest whether I end up going as a girl or a boi, I'm gonna need her help, because I'm not very good at formal wear and she is, hence why she is a part of this whole mess of mine too.

Obviously I could just go the whole way, tell my mother and wear a men's suit, but I've never gone that fully public with my boi-ness before, and I'm worried about what everyone will think. It's a bit soon, given that I am certain being a boi is a part of me, but I'm understandably unsure about presenting this side of myself to the entire family of my other half!

So, my question (finally) is is there an in-between suit that is appropriate for a black tie occasion? Something won't mean I look obviously like a girl in a man's suit, something more androgynous. Does anyone know where to find such things (online or in store, I'm easy) and maybe even whether or not it would be black tie appropriate?

There is extra added pressure because I will be there with my boyfriend of since we were 12, and if I'm going to come out as boi in front of everyone, he has to endure the awkwardness with me, and I need to look good enough for him to be glad he is with me even though everyone in the room in probably judging him for being with me as much as they are judging me. If I get wrong we're both gonna look like morons.

Lol, this is all assuming I tell my mother and she doesn't disown me, anyway. If anyone has any ideas or advice, that'd be awesome. If I can't find something appropriate suitwise, I have to go in a dress, and I really, really don't want that.

Would it be worth reposting this in How To or do we get into trouble for that?

you have a dilemma ,my instinct would be to wear a simple black trouser suit with a white shirt or blouse ,tie optional in this case since i am guessing you are female and forgive me if i am wrong and dont overdo the accessories ,i hope this helps ,x

 

[SkylarFalling]

I'm sorry I couldn't convince you I don't think it's all about me. I just wanted to know if anyone had any ideas. Personally I would have thought it would have looked worse talking to everyone in real life about it, instead of looking for some ideas (maybe with help) and me and my mother hopefully going to look for something, job done. I know I rambled a lot which probably doesn't help, but I'm fucking worried about this! Even if I end up going in a dress its going to be scary... I know full well people won't be looking at me that much, but I'm not really terribly outgoing in public and any attention at all is a bit much, hence why I was looking for some kind of acceptable in-between.

Anyway, sorry for making a moron of myself. I always rather thought I could ask here and get help without me getting judged but I guess not if I'm enough of an arse...

 

[SkylarFalling]

you have a dilemma ,my instinct would be to wear a simple black trouser suit with a white shirt or blouse ,tie optional in this case since i am guessing you are female and forgive me if i am wrong and dont overdo the accessories ,i hope this helps ,x

Well, thank you.

 

[SkylarFalling]

Don't be too hard on yourself I think you threw a few people by your use of the word boi
So, assuming your sexuality is straight ( you mentioned a boyfriend though gender isn't the issue here ) then talk it through with him first and gauge his reaction. If he's with you then that's a start. You can't choose your family and if your mother is disappointed, well - she's going to have to get used to the idea sooner of later. I'd tell her the night before the wedding - that way she won't have a heart attack when she sees you, but it'll be too late for her to put pressure on you and too late for her to come round with ribbons and lace.

Thanks. I honestly didn't mean to come across as self-centred crazy person. I know I'm making a bit of a thing about it. It's mostly being nervous. I'd just like to wear the things I like without everyone looking at me funny....
Boi might not be the right word, masculine-presenting might possibly be the word but I only learned that one about half an hour ago. I saw boi used in a story about a straight female dressed masculine.

Telling her late is a pretty good idea, provided she doesn't try and take me dress shopping before then. I might see if I can leave it late, but if she tries to take me shopping I'll have to tell her, because it nearly always involves have a row about me being 'difficult' because I don't really like any of them. I'll ask the boyfriend tonight. I know he's ok with it in general but I'd understand if he found it awkward with his family.

I need to get on with working out what is ok. Do you know of any brands doing really dinky suits? Thinking it'll show if I get a kids one.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Anyone who is invited to a black tie event has a perfect right to worry about what to wear. The point isn't to upstage the bride and groom, the point is to dress well so as not to embarrass them, or be out of place.

http://www.hertuxedo.com/
http://butchontap.com/tag/lesbian-fashion/
http://sartorialbutch.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/help/

Never waste your time trying to convince Pilot that you aren't thinking about yourself-- narcissism is the only 'ism he himself knows. Just pat his little head and smile, and go on discussing with whomever seems to have something constructive to say

 

[SkylarFalling]

Haha... nerves... understood... most folks here have a lifetime's experience, so I'm finally on your wavelength
Pfft... I have the opposite problem - finding girls clothes to fit ( esp shoulders grrrr ). I dunno - I guess Next is the go-to for 'professional work clothes for women' ? Or the House of Fraser stores. It'll need to be a decent fabric or it'll show... If it's expensive ( it will ) then look at it this way: once you've worn it publicly will anyone be able to prise it off you?! You don't have to go for something cliche but what expresses your personality.

Mm, I know black tie is strict - or at least, the bride has requested properly strict black tie, I know people's definitions vary a lot - but I'm wondering if maybe there will be more leeway for self-expression in the guise of making my suit a little more feminine. Might soften the effect slightly too. I'm under the impression that black tie for men is black dress suit, white shirt and preferably a bow tie, black.
My size problem is more general - I'm really little even for a girl. I imagine whatever I end up with will want adjusting.

The idea of getting myself a suit is quite exciting; if only the nerves wouldn't drown it out so much.

Anyone who is invited to a black tie event has a perfect right to worry about what to wear. The point isn't to upstage the bride and groom, the point is to dress well so as not to embarrass them, or be out of place.

http://www.hertuxedo.com/
http://butchontap.com/tag/lesbian-fashion/
http://sartorialbutch.wordpress.com/2010/06/23/help/

Never waste your time trying to convince Pilot that you aren't thinking about yourself-- narcissism is the only 'ism he himself knows. Just pat his little head and smile, and go on discussing with whomever seems to have something constructive to say

Thank you Stella
I don't want to make this about me, I'm just aware this is far more likely to go down without making a show of it if I get it right. I want to do it right and do it quietly, and then spend it somewhere near the back.

Her Tuxedo.....ooooooh! That's very nice. There are so few places that make those, or at least as far as I can tell. ButchOnTap may now be my new favourite blog.

Also, is tuxedo a specific style or is it the American equivalent of 'suit'?

 

[Que]

a great resource with lots of cool dudes, (boi) is crossdressers dot com.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thanks, Query! (it's fine to give full URLS, BTW)
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?5-Transmasculine

 

[SkylarFalling]

Thank you everyone!
The forum looks good, might help me understand some more of the many words than seem to be associated with the subject too.
Moss is a good idea actually, we might have one of those in town....goodness I'm so used to walking straight past it.

I have a plan of action!
1) Speak to the boyfriend. Done this, and he's ok going with me even if I'm in man's clothes. Strange, accepting boyfriend he is. :]
2) Speak to my mum. I can't see her for another two weeks but I think her knowing is necessary because I'm fairly sure she will want to be involved in the shopping which makes not telling her at all damn near impossible.
3) If my mum is ok, I am contemplating asking the bride if it's ok. She's also my boyfriends step-mum. I don't know if asking her if its ok is the polite thing to do, it being her wedding and all, or if asking her would be weird and unnecessary, and maybe I shouldn't feel like I have to ask permission to dress how I like. But it'll be a while 'till I have to do that and hopefully I'll have figured it out by then.
On a less serious note, I don't know how strict her particular 'black tie' rules are, and it would be helpful to be able to speak with her directly, but that would require her knowing why I'm asking.

In any case I doubt I would've figured this out without everyone, at least knowing there are options as far as fashion goes is great.

 

[sr71plt]

Which, Stella take note, is doing pretty much what I recommended she do. Connecting with those involved to ensure she doesn't upset or upstage the occasion.

 

[sr71plt]

^^^ "Will you two stop bickering?!" as my mother would say.

You'll have to talk to Stella about that. won't you? I addressed myself to the issue. She's the one who took a swipe and bickered. As I noted, the OP has bottom lined on going to the people actually involved in an occasion that centers on other people, not her. Glad to see her show that maturity and concern for others.

I have no doubt that Stella would go wearing the Donald Trump cat hat so that she could push her agenda on all of those present.

 

[SkylarFalling]

You'll have to talk to Stella about that. won't you? I addressed myself to the issue. She's the one who took a swipe and bickered. As I noted, the OP has bottom lined on going to the people actually involved in an occasion that centres on other people, not her. Glad to see her show that maturity and concern for others.

I have no doubt that Stella would go wearing the Donald Trump cat hat so that she could push her agenda on all of those present.

Seeing as this is still going, I'd like to add that while your response does revolve around talking, your response also made me feel like you thought it childish, selfish and unfair for me to want to be who I am, as if I was screaming "Everyone look at me and what I am."

Which isn't the case at all. I was asking for help because I'm fairly shy, and simply wanted to get it right and have a quiet evening. It may not have been intended to do so - but conversations on the internet are dangerous like that - what you said made me feel like I was being bad or causing trouble or something. Hence why my initial answer was so short. I hadn't realised that how I felt wasn't ok and was taken aback by the response I got, so I tried to be short and polite.

I understand full well that if I ask for opinions, then what I get is my problem, but I was hoping for support, not yet more weight added to this odd idea that I should ask the people around me for permission to do something that shouldn't even cause a problem in the first place! The very idea that I ought to ask implies that it isn't necessarily allowed....

I don't want a massive fight about this, I tend to avoid them, especially on the internet, but I can't let you poke at Stella_Omega and stickygirl when I felt pretty fucking bad before they turned up.

 

[sr71plt]

Seeing as this is still going, I'd like to add that while your response does revolve around talking, your response also made me feel like you thought it childish, selfish and unfair for me to want to be who I am, as if I was screaming "Everyone look at me and what I am."

"Still going on"? I posted four times total. Twice to you on the issue, once, much belatedly, to poke back at Stella's unnecessary jab, and once in response to criticism on a side issue.

Well, yes, on the selfish bit. Both your first posting--and then your response to me--didn't appear to be taking the others involved in this occasion--and ones most involved in the occasion--into account. You came around, but I can't see that you would have without being dinged to look at it from another perspective. Narcissism wasn't the issue. The issue was balance and sensitivity to whose day this is. It was more the Stella "shove your political agenda everywhere" issue. If your issue was to make a political statement on someone else's day, my recommendation would be to stay home.

I reject your notion that I poked at Stella--I poked back and not until someone else brought up that side issue. Again, you aren't focused on the actual situation. But that's OK. I don't expect it. Fairness is not a big concern here obviously.

But enjoy the wedding. You came on the open board and asked for advice. If you only wanted to get advice that pleased you, perhaps you should have specified that.

 

[SkylarFalling]

"Still going on"? I posted four times total. Twice to you on the issue, once, much belatedly, to poke back at Stella's unnecessary jab, and once in response to criticism on a side issue.

Well, yes, on the selfish bit. Both your first posting--and then your response to me--didn't appear to be taking the others involved in this occasion--and ones most involved in the occasion--into account. You came around, but I can't see that you would have without being dinged to look at it from another perspective. Narcissism wasn't the issue. The issue was balance and sensitivity to whose day this is. It was more the Stella "shove your political agenda everywhere" issue. If your issue was to make a political statement on someone else's day, my recommendation would be to stay home.

I reject your notion that I poked at Stella--I poked back and not until someone else brought up that side issue. Again, you aren't focused on the actual situation. But that's OK. I don't expect it. Fairness is not a big concern here obviously.

But enjoy the wedding. You came on the open board and asked for advice. If you only wanted to get advice that pleased you, perhaps you should have specified that.

Mm, but I think you missed the point that I wasn't looking to make a fashion statement or a political one for that matter. I wanted help because a) black tie is complicated and not a style I know much about and b) precisely so that I can blend in. Wear something comfortable but appropriate.

Why on earth I would want to make something that is already stressful even more so by making myself the centre of attention, I have no idea. I was primarily looking for advice because I am in the same position as every man going to his first formal menswear event: I have never done it before and do not want to stand out. I'm also aware that being a female shape, it's hard to find suitable clothing. As far as I am concerned, this takes into account other people at the wedding by being appropriately dressed for the dress code and by not wearing something so flamboyant that I risk looking like I want to steal the show. I can't think of other ways to need to take others into account, given that if they have some odd prejudice against anything non-binary then it isn't really my problem, and also as it is their problem they should be responsible for not bringing it up somewhere inappropriate, like a wedding.

My question is one of fashion, in the awareness that it's a hell of a lot easier for people to think I look stupid because the clothing isn't designed for my shape.

You know, maybe it does make me a terrible, terrible human being, but I don't understand what is so wrong with me wanting to conform to the dress code. : /

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wearing a tuxedo is a perfectly respectful way to dress. It's pretty much impossible to stand out in a tux-- unless you cover it with rhinestones or something, and then it's not a tux any longer!

And it's comfortable, too-- no stupid high heels to teeter around in, no need to clamp your knees together each time you sit-- but one little trick that you should learn is how to pick up the center seam of each leg at about the middle of the thigh, and pull upwards just a touch as you sit-- you'll see men do that. On us with heavier thighs we kind of need to do that, so that the spread doesn't pull our trousers downwards-- dragging our waistline down in the back...

 

[Allyourbase]

Oh man, black tie! Good luck with that. Just dropping by to say I think it's pretty brave to try and do it this way. Crossdressing, outdressing the bride, honestly, every option is stressful actually.

I'm quite boi in daily life, even own some binders. But on formal occasions, half the time I will go for a slightly more feminine look. Christmas, important social occasions, stuff like that. When I just started to allow myself to present in a masculine way, I used to want to wear ties and men's wear especially on those occasions. Because when else do you get to dress up like that? But I'm worn out a bit. Choosing to dress boi in daily life, makes it fun to do a femme look once in a while, and it takes off the edge - the unspoken 'she's a bit weird'-thing gets to me on bad days, and if it doesn't get to me, it gets to my partner.

Personally, my biggest concern would be the boyfriend. I see he's o.k. with it though. (My partner is a man as well, he's often, but not always o.k. with it.)

Must disappoint you a bit though. Black tie? It doesn't get more binary than that. I'm pretty sure some people will take crossdressing as not conforming to the dress code.

Do you know a lot of people who will be there? If you talk to them in casual settings, maybe you can prepare them a bit?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Allyourbase, do you really think a black suit would upstage the bride?

Maybe I am going on a completely wrong assumption. Living where I do I have never worried about being wierd- there is always someone wierder than I am. And a formal event is where I, personally, would feel even less comfortable dressing en femme then ever. Which is all the time, admittedly, these days...

 

[Allyourbase]

Allyourbase, do you really think a black suit would upstage the bride?
Maybe I am going on a completely wrong assumption. Living where I do I have never worried about being wierd- there is always someone wierder than I am. And a formal event is where I, personally, would feel even less comfortable dressing en femme then ever. Which is all the time, admittedly, these days...

No, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that! I meant: stress if you go femme and could potentially upstage the bride, OR stress if you go boi and potentially have to navigate the 'hey you are crossdressing'-thing.

Hey, maybe I'm just young and neurotic.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The UK is pretty liberal: I can't see Skylar upstaging anyone - I think she'll great once she's sorted out where to find the outfit and primed her family. Upstaging is when an ex-wife pitches up wearing a scarlet head-to-toe outfit... seen that... bitch

I kind of got into trouble once for wearing a black gown to anafternoon wedding reception... that was long before the advent of Goth which would have made it a little bit more common, at any rate--

I was very young.