Bisexuals in Greek Mythology

[TexWiller]

I'm a big fan of Greek mythology. My husband likes it too. I loved how open the Greeks were about homosexuality and bisexuality. One of my favorite characters is Hercules, son of a god and the strongest man in the universe. I've read the tales. Hercules had a wife named Megara, who died. He had children with her. He also had another wife (after Megara's death) named Deinera and they had children together. Hercules was reported to have had affairs with Hyppolita, Queen of the Amazons. I read somewhere that he was bisexual.


Has anyone in here written any GLBT-themed Greek mythology stories ?

 

[bisexplicit]

I gotta say that the Ancient Greek love of young boys creeps me out a little.

 

[BitterIchor]

In the ancient greek, sex between males was perfectly accepted. So in a way, homosexuality was very accepted. However, the state of women in those times were a different matter altogether. A married woman never left the house, and her main responsibility was to have children, but she also took care of the household economy. They were married off at the age of 15 (at the latest). As with many ancient cultures, a womans feelings had nothing to do with anything. Her marriage was a business deal and nothing else. One often talk about the birth of democracy in Athens, but one seldom mentions how women had even less political right than slaves (high ranking slaves often had quite a lot of influence, unlike women). Married women were really nothing more than slaves. But I still imagine that sexual relationships between women did happen, because since married women were confined to their homes only with the comapny of female slaves and other female relatives, their only hope of some sort of loving relationship was with another female, probably a slave or such.

(Not really greek mythology, but still)

 

[PredatorSmile]

Wow ! We have come a long way since those times, huh ?

 

[OlderBiMan]

Indeed we have ! I remember watching Hercules : The Legendary Journeys back in the day. I watched Hercules have affairs with the lovely Xena on screen but he did seem "awfully close" to his "best friend" Iolaus. Iolaus, the guy who never had a girlfriend and always watched Hercules sleep, often with a dreamy look on his face. Maybe Iolaus and Hercules were more than "just friends". I recall watching Iolaus battle an Amazon warrior who showed an interest in Hercules. Maybe Iolaus was a jealous male-hussy.

 

[BitterIchor]

Wow ! We have come a long way since those times, huh ?

Barely. Since it has been almost 2000 years, I think our level of progress in this departement is embarrassing.

 

[bisexplicit]

Indeed we have ! I remember watching Hercules : The Legendary Journeys back in the day. I watched Hercules have affairs with the lovely Xena on screen but he did seem "awfully close" to his "best friend" Iolaus. Iolaus, the guy who never had a girlfriend and always watched Hercules sleep, often with a dreamy look on his face. Maybe Iolaus and Hercules were more than "just friends". I recall watching Iolaus battle an Amazon warrior who showed an interest in Hercules. Maybe Iolaus was a jealous male-hussy.

Except, the "real" Iolaus in the legend was female...

 

[Stefani]

One of the most famous Greek myths involving homosexuality involves the king of the gods, Zeus. Supposedly Ganymede was the most beautiful male in the world, and a son of an early king of Troy. Zeus took the boy as his lover, and then turning into an eagle, carried Ganymede to Mount Olympus where he made him the cupbearer of the gods.

Many Greek myths usually have allegorical meanings. It is thought that the Zeus-Ganymede myth was a way for the Greeks to say homosexuality was okay. If the king of the gods is doing it - why can't we common folk? Others say the myth is just a reflection of Greek culture at the time.

Supposedly Zeus's wife Hera became jealous of Zeus' affair with Ganymede, so Zeus placed Ganymede in the sky as the constellation Aquarius, the water carrier.

In Homer's "Iliad" (which the movie "Troy" is based on), supposedly Achilles and Patroclus were lovers. Which is why Achilles was so pissed off when Hector killed Patroclus. If Brad Pitt had played Achilles as bisexual - it would have put a different spin on the movie, wouldn't it?

In the movie "Alexander" they are faithful to history and show Alexander as bisexual. He had two lovers in history, Hephastion and the Persian boy Bagoas. Bagoas was actually Darius' slave first - and a eunuch. I like the fact that the Alexander movie is more faithful to history than the Troy movie (which is just Hollywood trash).

In Greek literature, when I first read Plato's philosophies "The Symposium" and the "Phaedrus," which are all about love, it didn't hit me till half way through these books that Plato was talking about the love between two men. It's understandable when you consider men were educated, women were not. Men were on a similar intellectual level. The only educated women in Classical Greece were courtesans. Pericles' mistress Aspasia is among the only famous women in that era - she was educated and quite smart - and she was a courtesan - or a high class prostitute.

Sadly, although the Athenians invented democracy, it was for men only. Slaves had more freedom than women. Women were kept locked up at home and were for child-rearing only. There is a great deal in Greek literature about the Greek's fear of women... which is shown in their myths of the Amazons. Women who fought like men were the Greeks worst nightmare, on the same level as monsters.

Early in their history, around 2000 BC, Greek society was matriarcal. Greek men had a certain fear of women, that women might once again regain their dominance in society, which is one of the reasons why they kept them locked away, without any rights. That fear is typified in the myth of Gaia who gave Zeus the reaping hook which he used to castrate his father the god Cronus. Greeks had a fear that women were actually quite powerful and would one day reassert their control over society.

Because Greece was a male dominated society, and it was predominantly men who gathered in the agora, in the gymnasium, and because the Greeks exercised in the nude - it was only natural for men to take male lovers.

Sorry for posting so much on this subject... but it's one that i have a certain passion for. I have 100's of books on Greek society, and have been to Greece several times to climb among the ruins. It's a fascinating culture.

Steffie

 

[John Doe]

Point of order: the ancient Greeks and Romans had no concept of bi- or homosexuality as we use the terms today. They just fucked whoever (or whatever) they found attractive.

And anyway, saying "bisexuals in Greek mythology" is kind of like saying meat-eaters in a tiger cage. Heh, I made a funny...

 

[Curelle05]

The ancient Greek Hercules was not as pure as his contemporary model suggest. He was actually very cruel and selfish, but also very human. One of my favorite stories involves Hercules Cross dressing:

Basically the run down of one stories is this: Hercules stole some animals(don't recall which type). The son the owner of the animals was idolized and was a friend of Hercules. So, the son was sent to get the animals back. Hercules invited the sun into his house as a guest (being a guest is very important and a host cannot harm you or eject you, it is called the law of Xeina...killing or hurting the guest was a heinous crime and was considered a blood crime which must be purified or else you are in trouble). Well, Hercules took the son to the top of his house and in a fit of rage tossed the kid off(might have been the top of a wall)

Hercules when went to an oracle to ask what he must do to purify himself of this crime. After hearing of the crime, the priest refused to assist him. Hercules grew upset and stole the delphic tripod, part of the oracle. Well, Apollo did not like part of his oracle being stolen and grabbed a hold of the tripod...a tug of war ensued. Zeus had to step in and ordered Apollo to tell Hercules what his penitence must be...Hercules had to be a slave for a certain amount of time(1 or 3 years)

Omphale the queen of Lydia(where that is I haven't the slightest idea) then bought Hercules. They became lovers and would take camping trips. During these trips they would visit a secluded cave in which Omphale would wear Hercules characteristic lion skin clothes and carry his club while Hercules would wear Omphale's clothing. But, the bliss ended when Hercules sentence was up...he left Omphale... This is the only story I have encountered in which cross dressing was an element and good ol' Herc was the first.

There is also a minor story about Pan catching the two of them in cross dress...I believe Hercules had another fit of rage and did some damage but I do not recall the story exactly.

Hercules also had boy lovers. You can find this in the story of Jason and the Argonauts. Hercules boy lover goes missing on an island and Hercules leaves the group to find him.

 

[DarKirby]

I gotta say that the Ancient Greek love of young boys creeps me out a little.

That's understandable if the boys don't consent. But man, I'm 18, and I fantasize about being one of those boys!


...Ok, so I'm a perv. So sue me.

 

[dizzylia]

Has anyone in here written any GLBT-themed Greek mythology stories ?

Oooh. Not yet. But I certainly could. Thanks!


-dizzy

 

[bisexplicit]

That's understandable if the boys don't consent. But man, I'm 18, and I fantasize about being one of those boys!


...Ok, so I'm a perv. So sue me.

If you're 18, then do whatever you want. Its the whole loving 13 year old boys thing thats creepy. Granted, thats given my own biases from my contemporary culture.

 

[dizzylia]

If you're 18, then do whatever you want. Its the whole loving 13 year old boys thing thats creepy. Granted, thats given my own biases from my contemporary culture.

I wonder how the attraction worked in either direction. Was it primarily men desiring boys? Boys desiring the men? Was it simply "the way things were"?

 

[CuriousNiceGuy]

Actually the whole bi/gay-sexuality in ancient Greece wasn't as simple as some of you might think.
It's not Fucking a boy, or a man.
It's Loving and respecting the beauty of body and soul.

So when mature men would see someone that they thought was of high intellect and had beautiful characteristics they'd 'fall for' him.
It's only natural that, the boys would look at the men and feel respect and want to become closer to them.
There weren't that many couples, but there where lovers.

I don't know if they REALLY had affairs with their guardians, but the boys wanted to make strong bonds between them.
Also this bonding and love between men, I read somewhere(I don't remember where), was also taken advantage of in wars.
By bonding and loving each other, the Greeks fought not only for their country/town but also for they're lovers/close friends who were also fighting with them.

Women weren't treated the same all over Greece.
It's a fact that they didn't have a lot of rights, but their opinions on matters and their mental strength was well aknowledged and respected.
Also the fact that their husbands had affairs with other men, doesn't mean they weren't loved by them.

Lastly, I DOUBT Hercules was bi..
He got married twice.And I have never heard of any affairs he might have had..

 

[Stefani]

I wonder how the attraction worked in either direction. Was it primarily men desiring boys? Boys desiring the men? Was it simply "the way things were"?

It was primarily men desiring boys. And yes, it was "the way things were."

In Greek culture, part of their system was for an older man to serve as a mentor for a younger man. To train him in athletics, teach him philosophy... whatever. This bond in some cases became sexual, but not always. The Greek ideal was for it to be a platonic relationship.

The Greeks views on pedophilia were complicated. Although there were obviously men who practiced it - and got away with it - it was not completely socially acceptable. Adult men could be ridiculed and ostracized for being "catamites" as the Greeks called them. A catamite was a very effeminate man who lusted after young boys, and he was the object of ridicule in Greek theater and society.

So although men loving boys was practised, the Greeks themselves recognized there were certain limits to what was socially acceptable. It was supposed to be a mentoring relationship - if it went too far and became sexual - it was sort of okay, so long as they weren't blatant about it in public.

Something unrelated... but interesting...

In Thebes their most elite military unit was called the "Sacred Band." The unit was made up entirely of male homosexual couples, mostly older men (in their 30's and 40's) with younger man (20's). They were supposedly a very fierce fighting force because the men fought tooth and nail to protect their "lover" who stood beside them in the phalanx.

Always thought it amazing that a group of gay warriors could be among the most fearsome armies in their time.

 

[dizzylia]

I'm not sure the mentoring turned sexual is unheard of these days, either. There are still stories now and then of teachers or professors who developed sexual relationship with their students. Psychologically, it's certainly understandable, even if our current "norms" often argue against large gaps in age (and much more against the pre-18's).

The younger looks up to the older, which is an aphrodisiac all its own, sometimes.

 

[dizzylia]

I also wanted to send a thank you to all. This thread has been enlightening, which I always appreciate.

-dizzy

 

[bisexplicit]

Interestingly enough, There are also cultures where older women would "mentor" (which would frequently include have sex with) younger women.

 

[Stefani]

I'm not sure the mentoring turned sexual is unheard of these days, either. There are still stories now and then of teachers or professors who developed sexual relationship with their students. Psychologically, it's certainly understandable, even if our current "norms" often argue against large gaps in age (and much more against the pre-18's).

The younger looks up to the older, which is an aphrodisiac all its own, sometimes.

True. I was in such a relationship when I was in my early 20's and still living as a boy.

I've always loved to swim laps to stay in shape (still do), and after college joined our local YMCA to swim. While there I ran into an old high school History teacher who was in his 50's, and who had at one time been the high school swimming coach. We started meeting at the YMCA to swim together. I liked it because he was a great History teacher and could help me with my stroke (swimming stroke!).

Although he did not come off as gay, I realized rather quickly that he had a crush on me. Whenever we were done swimming and I was taking a shower, he would always take the stall across from mine and stare at my body. On one occasion he actually said to me (I'll never forget this): "You have the body of a Greek god." lol

After swimming he would ask me if i wanted to join him for coffee, which I did, because I loved listening to him. He was an intellectual and had the best stories about history. I could listen to him for hours.

Eventually one day he invited me back to his place. I knew what he wanted, and although i was not physically attracted to him - he was too old - I felt a little sorry for him because he was single, never married, and lonely. When we went back to his house he tried to put his arms around me... i remember putting my hand on his crotch... and he literally came in his pants when i touched him! lol

It wasn't much of an affair. I saw him for a while, and every time he tried to have sex with me, he'd cum in my hand usually within about 60 seconds. Eventually he retired and moved to Florida. That was years ago, and he still sends me Xmas cards. lol

Still, that's about the closest thing I've ever had to a mentoring relationship, nor was it particularly sexual. I would never let him touch me. And he came so fast (thankfully), i never felt like he was molesting me. If anything, he was quite embarrassed by his problem with premature ejaculation.

 

[John Doe]

Actually the whole bi/gay-sexuality in ancient Greece wasn't as simple as some of you might think.
It's not Fucking a boy, or a man.
It's Loving and respecting the beauty of body and soul.

So when mature men would see someone that they thought was of high intellect and had beautiful characteristics they'd 'fall for' him.
It's only natural that, the boys would look at the men and feel respect and want to become closer to them.
There weren't that many couples, but there where lovers.

I don't know if they REALLY had affairs with their guardians, but the boys wanted to make strong bonds between them.
Also this bonding and love between men, I read somewhere(I don't remember where), was also taken advantage of in wars.
By bonding and loving each other, the Greeks fought not only for their country/town but also for they're lovers/close friends who were also fighting with them.

Women weren't treated the same all over Greece.
It's a fact that they didn't have a lot of rights, but their opinions on matters and their mental strength was well aknowledged and respected.
Also the fact that their husbands had affairs with other men, doesn't mean they weren't loved by them.

Lastly, I DOUBT Hercules was bi..
He got married twice.And I have never heard of any affairs he might have had..

Yeah, but they fucked too.

 

[OlderBiMan]

I once wrote a short story about a bisexual man who goes to Greece. He meets a beautiful Amazon warrior and also gets involved with a rugged and manly Satyr. With the help of Dionysus, god of wine, he talks both of his lovers into a steamy threesome. The man in question was yours truly. It's locked away somewhere in the Wordpad on my PC. I haven't had time to find it. When I do, I'll share.

 

[dizzylia]

Mentoring

I've often been more attracted to people older than me. I also think it's more their intellect than anything absolutely physical. There's just something very sexy about someone who knows who they aren't, don't bother with the insecurities so very common in the young, and they know what they're doing.

Very hot.

Actually, my current lovers are 12 and 17 years older than I am. And it's the best relationship I've ever had. So maybe (edited for grammar) the Greeks had something, there. Though I'll never be okay with the under-18 thing.

 

[glamorilla]

http://www.androphile.org/preview/Library/Mythology/Greek/Hercules/Hercules_Iolaos_Nestor_gay.html

i found this just by googling it up.

the acceptance of man on man sex in ancient cultures was as such:

women were to remain virgin for thier men so in order to satisfy thier urges men turned to each other.

 

[Wolfman1982]

I've often been more attracted to people older than me. I also think it's more their intellect than anything absolutely physical. There's just something very sexy about someone who knows who they aren't, don't bother with the insecurities so very common in the young, and they know what they're doing.
Very hot.

Maybe that is why i prefer people who are older than me when I am looking for love Some one who has more experience than me, and they have something between their ears.