Bisexual & Lesbian Moms

[PinkWolf]

Hi, my name is Michelle, I'm 23 and I'm a SAHM to two wonderful little girls (Heaven & Cadance). I've been married for 4 years. I'm also bisexual. My girlfriend and I have been together for just over a year. We have a group for bi and lesbian moms, if anyone is interested in joining, please check it out. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bi_lesbian_moms

 

[PredatorSmile]

Hi, my name is Michelle, I'm 23 and I'm a SAHM to two wonderful little girls (Heaven & Cadance). I've been married for 4 years. I'm also bisexual. My girlfriend and I have been together for just over a year. We have a group for bi and lesbian moms, if anyone is interested in joining, please check it out. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bi_lesbian_moms

You know, maybe you should start a group for GLBT Parents as opposed to just bi and lez mums ? At my school, I fought the GSA so that they accepted straight and bisexual men among them, and bisexual women like myself as well. Before I came along, the GSA was made up of 13 lesbians and 6 gay men. After I got done with them, they were 50 members strong, with a lot of male and female members. They became a GLBT or Gay Lesbian Bisexual and Transsexual Alliance. A diverse group !


I think this works best !

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Does hubby know? That's the only question or concern that I have. As long as he knows, it sounds cool what you're doing.

 

[BitterIchor]

I can't help to wonder why any woman would want to date a married woman.

 

[PredatorSmile]

I can't help to wonder why any woman would want to date a married woman.

Same reason some women date a married man.

 

[13abovethenight]

I can't help to wonder why any woman would want to date a married woman.

While I can certainly understand some of your concern, some people are okay with this sort of thing. If my fiancee wanted to date a woman, I'd be fine with that. But perhaps we're more open than what your standards are okay with.

As long as you're happy, then that is all that matters right?

 

[BitterIchor]

While I can certainly understand some of your concern, some people are okay with this sort of thing. If my fiancee wanted to date a woman, I'd be fine with that. But perhaps we're more open than what your standards are okay with.

As long as you're happy, then that is all that matters right?

I know some people have a different view on things like this. It still doesn't help me to understand it.

Sharing the affections of one person doesn't sound like a good idea to me. In my experience, most people have trouble devoting themselves fully to ONE person. I think two (or more) people is spreading oneself a dangerously thin. I value myself too high to waste my affections on someone who divides her time between me and hubby. And com one, if she's married to her husband and just calls me her "girlfriend", who is she likely to prioritize first?

No thanks.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I'm cool with it, but only if he is. Some people can share. Others feel like Bitter does about it. Monogamy is not for everyone. Otherwise, it wouldn't break down half of the time. That suggests that at most, half of the population is monogamous (and not divided by sex, either). Now, supposing that to be true, arrangements have to be made that fit the half that isn't monogamous, as well as the existing system for those who are monogamous. We have to learn to accept some share and some don't. Honesty and fairness are the key. No double standards for either sex.

 

[bidemoness226]

I can't help to wonder why any woman would want to date a married woman.

In my case (I'm the married one), it was because we both knew we were (are) soulmates. Partners in building a family--no. Partners in filling each other's soul with peace--yes.

 

[apple_pi]

I can't help to wonder why any woman would want to date a married woman.

I have met people who tell me they can't understand why a man would be gay, or a woman would be a lesbian. I suppose our human history is filled with a lack of understanding. I don't understand why some people are caring and giving, and others are hateful and spiteful. I can't understand how Mother Teresa, or Albert Schweizer would give up the luxury and pleasantries of the Western world to attend to the poorest people on earth. I don't understand how civil rights workers would give their lives, so others could vote.

There are many things I can't comprehend, many things I wonder about. But I refuse to be judgmental. I want it to be said about me that I wised the world joy and happiness.

 

[BitterIchor]

I have met people who tell me they can't understand why a man would be gay, or a woman would be a lesbian. I suppose our human history is filled with a lack of understanding. I don't understand why some people are caring and giving, and others are hateful and spiteful. I can't understand how Mother Teresa, or Albert Schweizer would give up the luxury and pleasantries of the Western world to attend to the poorest people on earth. I don't understand how civil rights workers would give their lives, so others could vote.

There are many things I can't comprehend, many things I wonder about. But I refuse to be judgmental. I want it to be said about me that I wised the world joy and happiness.

Lay it on a little thicker, why don't you? Yes, I am aware of all the "right" things I'm supposed to say and think when confronted with something I can't understand. That doesn't stop us from discussing them or trying to understand them, does it?

Here's my thoughts on the matter, in case you didn't read all of the thread before climbing up on the soapbox/high horse.

Sharing the affections of one person doesn't sound like a good idea to me. In my experience, most people have trouble devoting themselves fully to ONE person. I think two (or more) people is spreading oneself a dangerously thin. I value myself too high to waste my affections on someone who divides her time between me and hubby. And come on, if she's married to her husband and just calls me her "girlfriend", who is she likely to prioritize first?

 

[Etoile]

I don't understand why a woman would want to date a man. I don't understand men, and women are so wonderful, why would any woman want to be with a man? But it certainly seems very popular, and there's not anything I can do to change it.

So it is with polyamory. A lack of understanding doesn't constitute a need to campaign against it. Discussion is cool as long as one has an open mind about the things one doesn't understand. Which is why Fred Phelps has zero credibility.

 

[sows_ear]

Lay it on a little thicker, why don't you? Yes, I am aware of all the "right" things I'm supposed to say and think when confronted with something I can't understand. That doesn't stop us from discussing them or trying to understand them, does it?

Here's my thoughts on the matter, in case you didn't read all of the thread before climbing up on the soapbox/high horse.

I would seem to me that you are being judgmental. You qualified yourself only after you were called out. If this was what you believe, and it very well may be, you would have included this in your original post.
I get the feeling you are disingenuous. I could be wrong, but that is my feeling I take from your comments.

Also you AV sets a very aggressive tone. Some of us who are visually oriented would read an aggressive attitude on your part. I just get that from the blood, scull, and violent attitude of the AV. I supposed I have let it prejudice me.

 

[BitterIchor]

I would seem to me that you are being judgmental. You qualified yourself only after you were called out. If this was what you believe, and it very well may be, you would have included this in your original post.
I get the feeling you are . I could be wrong, but that is my feeling I take from your comments.

Also you AV sets a very aggressive tone. Some of us who are visually oriented would read an aggressive attitude on your part. I just get that from the blood, scull, and violent attitude of the AV. I supposed I have let it prejudice me.

I qualified myself only after I had been called out? It was more like I explained myself after I was confronted.

But you're right, I might be a little judgemental. So are you, it seems. Does that immediately disqualify any valid points I or you might have? No, it doesn't. I suggest everyone concentrate less on what a nasty person I must be and more on the points I'm trying to make.

I don't understand why a woman would want to date a man. I don't understand men, and women are so wonderful, why would any woman want to be with a man? But it certainly seems very popular, and there's not anything I can do to change it.

So it is with polyamory. A lack of understanding doesn't constitute a need to campaign against it. Discussion is cool as long as one has an open mind about the things one doesn't understand. Which is why Fred Phelps has zero credibility.

I'm not sure what I have done wrong here. But it seems I must have done something wrong, since everyone is on my case. I said I didn't understand and I motivated why. Do you want me to rephrase myself or something?

 

[Etoile]

I'm not sure what I have done wrong here. But it seems I must have done something wrong, since everyone is on my case. I said I didn't understand and I motivated why. Do you want me to rephrase myself or something?

I didn't say you did anything wrong, I was just participating in the discussion. I realize some other posts have been directed toward you, but I was just posting in response to the concept of not understanding polyamory. Sorry if you felt I was directing myself to you personally; I wasn't.

 

[BitterIchor]

I didn't say you did anything wrong, I was just participating in the discussion. I realize some other posts have been directed toward you, but I was just posting in response to the concept of not understanding polyamory. Sorry if you felt I was directing myself to you personally; I wasn't.

Meh, no worries. It was probably me being overly sensitive about the whole thing.

 

[apple_pi]

Lay it on a little thicker, why don't you? Yes, I am aware of all the "right" things I'm supposed to say and think when confronted with something I can't understand. That doesn't stop us from discussing them or trying to understand them, does it?

Here's my thoughts on the matter, in case you didn't read all of the thread before climbing up on the soapbox/high horse.

How would this sound?
I wonder how any one could have more than one child. Sharing you affections with several children doesn't sound like a good idea to me. I value myself too high to waste my affections on someone who divides her time to all her children. Wouldn't that be spreading the affection a little thin? How would you prioritize the affection for the children? One child would have to be left out.

Not everyone is like you BitterIchor, because you can't share you affection, don't be so aggressively judgmental. We all have relationships, families, friends, lovers, and we all have to deal with them in different ways. I know of several divorces related directly to family issues. Would you have no children for fear of spreading your self too thin? Of your spouse prioritizing?

The tone in your first post was aggressive, and although you attempted to clarify yourself, that post also rings loudly of judgment. If I climb on my high horse, it is only to defend those who are being judged. You say you want discussion, but you look for discussion only after you have passed judgement.

Feel the tone set by Severusmax and Etoile, that is a tone that encourages discussion, discussion without judgement.

 

[sows_ear]

I qualified myself only after I had been called out? It was more like I explained myself after I was confronted.

But you're right, I might be a little judgemental. So are you, it seems. Does that immediately disqualify any valid points I or you might have? No, it doesn't. I suggest everyone concentrate less on what a nasty person I must be and more on the points I'm trying to make.


I'm not sure what I have done wrong here. But it seems I must have done something wrong, since everyone is on my case. I said I didn't understand and I motivated why. Do you want me to rephrase myself or something?

There you go, twisting what my words. I never said you were a nasty person. I never implied that you were a nasty person. This is just a cheap shot, an effort to become the poor victim.

Few of your words have been spent in discussion, but in spinning your image like a true politician. I am sure you will see this as some pointed personal attack. For that I am truly sorry.

 

[BitterIchor]

There you go, twisting what my words. I never said you were a nasty person. I never implied that you were a nasty person. This is just a cheap shot, an effort to become the poor victim.

Few of your words have been spent in discussion, but in spinning your image like a true politician. I am sure you will see this as some pointed personal attack. For that I am truly sorry.

You said I had an aggressive tone and that I was disingenuous, I also admitted that I was indeed a little judgemental. This led to me making a somewhat sarcastic comment about me being "nasty". I admit that I exaggerated somewhat for effect.

Is it possible for you to disregard my judgemental nature (and my apparently dubious debating techniques) and get back on topic now?

I argued that dividing one's attention between two people when most people can't handle treating ONE person right was a recipe for disaster. Apple_pi brought up parents sharing affections among children as an argument against this. I don't think it's a valid comparison. Human nature is to nurture our offspring, it's hardcoded into our genetic makeup. Parents giving up children is much, much more rare than divorces or breakups. Having a romantic relationship with a person is thus a different kind of relationship and subject to different rules and circumstances. Insinuations about my problems with sharing affections aside (look sows_ear, I'm making a victim out of myself again), I still think it's very difficult to deal with the ups and downs of a polyamorous relationships. There are three people involved with (most likely) different ideas about things and different emotional states. In a monoamorous relationship, small things can grow to large issues. Emotions can run wild over the smallest things. Imagine then when there is one more person involved, with his or her own set of opinions and set ways. Or maybe one in the relationship starts to devote more affection (and perhaps not even realizing it) to one specific person in the relationship, is it really so certain that the person being somewhat neglected is so secure in himself/herself that he can deal with this in a way that doesn't cause any harm to the relationship? I'm not saying it is impossible, just that it's MUCH more difficult. Romantic sentimentalism aside, the real world doesn't always allow for idealism.

I also brought up the possible interpetation of inequality in a relationship where the woman is married to the man (a significant commitement) and a "girlfriend" to the woman. I think that a person would prioritize the marriage ahead of the girlfriend-relationship.

 

[Guest]

I don't understand why a woman would want to date a man. I don't understand men, and women are so wonderful, why would any woman want to be with a man? But it certainly seems very popular, and there's not anything I can do to change it.

So it is with polyamory. A lack of understanding doesn't constitute a need to campaign against it. Discussion is cool as long as one has an open mind about the things one doesn't understand. Which is why Fred Phelps has zero credibility.

I YOU!!

 

[sows_ear]

You said I had an aggressive tone and that I was disingenuous, I also admitted that I was indeed a little judgemental. This led to me making a somewhat sarcastic comment about me being "nasty". I admit that I exaggerated somewhat for effect.

Is it possible for you to disregard my judgemental nature (and my apparently dubious debating techniques) and get back on topic now?

I argued that dividing one's attention between two people when most people can't handle treating ONE person right was a recipe for disaster. Apple_pi brought up parents sharing affections among children as an argument against this. I don't think it's a valid comparison. Human nature is to nurture our offspring, it's hardcoded into our genetic makeup. Parents giving up children is much, much more rare than divorces or breakups. Having a romantic relationship with a person is thus a different kind of relationship and subject to different rules and circumstances. Insinuations about my problems with sharing affections aside (look sows_ear, I'm making a victim out of myself again), I still think it's very difficult to deal with the ups and downs of a polyamorous relationships. There are three people involved with (most likely) different ideas about things and different emotional states. In a monoamorous relationship, small things can grow to large issues. Emotions can run wild over the smallest things. Imagine then when there is one more person involved, with his or her own set of opinions and set ways. Or maybe one in the relationship starts to devote more affection (and perhaps not even realizing it) to one specific person in the relationship, is it really so certain that the person being somewhat neglected is so secure in himself/herself that he can deal with this in a way that doesn't cause any harm to the relationship? I'm not saying it is impossible, just that it's MUCH more difficult. Romantic sentimentalism aside, the real world doesn't always allow for idealism.

I also brought up the possible interpetation of inequality in a relationship where the woman is married to the man (a significant commitement) and a "girlfriend" to the woman. I think that a person would prioritize the marriage ahead of the girlfriend-relationship.

You just have to spin. Even in your attempt to appear conciliatory you spin my words. I never said you were disingenuous. I had the feeling that you were being disingenuous. As your choise to play the victim continues my feeling that you are being less then willing to be objective increases. Do pray tell, how I can have an honest discussion, when you will, without hesitation distort my words.

On with the discussion:
I believe ApplePI makes some good points. Our lives are full of relationships. We take on obligations with work and family and friends. With each of these relationships, there are different levels of depth. People make choices everyday on how they dedicate time and attention time. Marriages and relationships have been broken over career issues.

The part that I find ironic, is that I tend to agree with you. It is you self righteous, judgmental attitude that I have a problem with. I enjoy your quaint beliefs. Quaint indeed, and I dare say, quite conservative. But, would I wish to withhold from Bidemoness, or Pinkwoolf, or any other woman the joy they have found? I think not, I wish them happiness and success, and I am a little envious as I do not have a female lover in my life.

It may be that it is not in your nature, but do try to show a little more tolerance in the future. I might add that you come across with a smug superiority. That may to be your intent, but I see that as the result. Be that as it may, I hope you can find those things in life that will make you happy.

 

[BitterIchor]

You just have to spin. Even in your attempt to appear conciliatory you spin my words. I never said you were disingenuous. I had the feeling that you were being disingenuous. As your choise to play the victim continues my feeling that you are being less then willing to be objective increases. Do pray tell, how I can have an honest discussion, when you will, without hesitation distort my words.

On with the discussion:
I believe ApplePI makes some good points. Our lives are full of relationships. We take on obligations with work and family and friends. With each of these relationships, there are different levels of depth. People make choices everyday on how they dedicate time and attention time. Marriages and relationships have been broken over career issues.

The part that I find ironic, is that I tend to agree with you. It is you self righteous, judgmental attitude that I have a problem with. I enjoy your quaint beliefs. Quaint indeed, and I dare say, quite conservative. But, would I wish to withhold from Bidemoness, or Pinkwoolf, or any other woman the joy they have found? I think not, I wish them happiness and success, and I am a little envious as I do not have a female lover in my life.

It may be that it is not in your nature, but do try to show a little more tolerance in the future. I might add that you come across with a smug superiority. That may to be your intent, but I see that as the result. Be that as it may, I hope you can find those things in life that will make you happy.

"I had the feeling that you were being disingenuous", you said. Is it really so strange that I interpet that as that you think I was being disingenuous? I don't think it is.

I don't want to withhold anyone of their happiness. I have never said anything that would indicate that. And I don't appreciate that you accuse me of doing so. If I have misunderstood you in this, then please clarify.
I disagree with what may people think and do, but I would never dream of stopping anyone from living their life they way they want to. I just expressed my opinions. Perhaps a bit too aggressively and whatnot, but nothing beyond that.

EDIT: I won't clutter up this thread with any more of this ridiculous bickering. If anyone else wants to tell me how smug or superior I act when I post messages (and how that somehow exempts me from having valid opinions), please do so in a PM.

 

[apple_pi]

"I had the feeling that you were being disingenuous", you said. Is it really so strange that I interpet that as that you think I was being disingenuous? I don't think it is.

I don't want to withhold anyone of their happiness. I have never said anything that would indicate that. And I don't appreciate that you accuse me of doing so. If I have misunderstood you in this, then please clarify.
I disagree with what may people think and do, but I would never dream of stopping anyone from living their life they way they want to. I just expressed my opinions. Perhaps a bit too aggressively and whatnot, but nothing beyond that.

I would have to agree with Sows_ear. You do seem smug and superior. Sure you never said you didn't want to rain on their happiness. But in the smug superior tone of "I can't help to wonder why any woman would want to date a married woman.". You were even incapable of understanding how they could do such a thing.

Sow's right, you come across as being smug and superior.

But I suppose you are superior, what can we mere common folk ever hope for? Maybe a moment of pleasure with a married woman... lol

 

[apple_pi]

I have been thinking this over and I should apologies. Sometimes we have knee jerk reactions to things that are said, or left unsaid. I guess that you do not view you actions or words as being smug or superior. Hopefully we could put this behind us, and walk away, if not friends, at least on friendly terms. Life is way to short to make grudges, and Lit is way to small a world to avoid each other. And I hope that when we meet in a thread again we won't be trying to engage is a verbal pissing match.
Please accept my apologies.

 

[apple_pi]

BitterIchor,
I have been thinking this over and I should apologies. Sometimes we have knee jerk reactions to things that are said, or left unsaid. I guess that you do not view you actions or words as being smug or superior. Hopefully we could put this behind us, and walk away, if not friends, at least on friendly terms. Life is way to short to make grudges, and Lit is way to small a world to avoid each other. And I hope that when we meet in a thread again we won't be trying to engage is a verbal pissing match.
Please accept my apologies.