Biology or environment

[sexy-girl]

where does homosexuality come from ?

this discussion has happened on the GB with mixed views ... i presume the views will be more predictable here but just was curious

 

[oh21]

I honestly can't say as I know the answer on this one.

I'd love to be able to say it's biology, scientific proof of that would probably help the homosexual community combat the people who think they can choose thier sexuality.

But then if biology causes homosexual tendancies, how do you account for people like me, who tend to swing both ways?

LOL maybe biology can explain that too, I don't know. I am by no means a biology major.

 

[Queersetti]

I think we may be short sighted by presuming it's an either/or dichotomy.

There may not be one root cause. It's quite possible that some people are born with a 100% template to develop into homosexuals, while others may come to it entirely through experiences, and still others, perhaps a majority, are born with a propensity towards becoming homosexual that is effected by factors in their environment.

 

[sexy-girl]

i often feel that gay people would find it hard to accept if it was proved that it was only enviroment

 

[PinkOrchid]

 

[PinkOrchid]

 

[Queersetti]

i often feel that gay people would find it hard to accept if it was proved that it was only enviroment

That's true, because so much of our self identity, and our expectation of equal treatment in society, is built on the idea that being gay is not a choice.

If homosexuality is entirely caused by environment, then the possibility of it being "curable" becomes more feasible. So, understandably, it's a hard concept to accept.

 

[sexy-girl]

There have been serious scientific studies proving a significant genetic component to homosexuality. I'll see if I can find a reference.

theres been a lot more study with gay males ... and they've proved that a gay males brain and straight males brain are actually different


i do believe its biology ... i think when you're gay you sort of automatically assume and feel that


would i be disappointed if i found out it was because it was environment ? ... yes i would ... but i shouldn't really because another part of being gay is knowing that being yourself is more important than what anyone thinks of you


pink orchid i understand what you're saying but i think part of why people are looking for a gay gene is to dispel that being gay is a choice

being a scientist though you'd know that its highly doubtful that they would find a single gene that was resposible for being gay ... they may be able to prove that some genes are more common among gays though and that will prove its biological

 

[DarkLadyOfDeath]

I am one to believe genetics have some play in things but more importantly, Environment, Teacheings, and Evolution and natural selection. it's been proven in most animal special homosexuality is a common practice though male animals will still take a female mate.. as will a female take a male mate if the environment surrounding them encourages it.. and I'm not talking about other foxes for instastance telling another fox he's not suppose to mount other males... in so many words. personality traits among certain animals.. humans included could deffinantly influance their tendancies towards sexual preferance. And overcrowding from what I've read in books and seen in the Doscovery channel 'n animal panet..^.^ ( I love animals.) Seems to promote homosexuality in species.. so it may be an instinctual way of controling a species population?... I'm just chock-full of ideas... whats everyone else think about that?

 

[buggawugga]

in my studies in genetics, i have yet to come across a conclusive paper that linked homosexuality to genetics.

the argument I have to offer in favour of the gene theory is that I remember having homoerotic fantasies as a young child. Being brought up in a very traditional, very catholic environment, i can't really find anything else that might have triggered these lesbian dreams but I do know that I was too young to think about my sexual orientation and too young to know anything other than what I had seen. So the appearance of these "deviant" thoughts leads me to believe they were hardwired to begin with...

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

While I lean towards biology for straight gays (no, that's not an oxymoron, is it?) I think it's a combination of both for bi's and gays.

Why? Because a gay person with the brain/body chemistry can act straight, even belive himself straight if his socity demands it. And a straight person can act gay, for the same reason.

And because homosexuality tends to run in families, just like learning disablities (which they also haven't found a definate cause for).

As for "looking" for the biological cause as an "deviant" thing I rather think that it would take a long step towards acceptance.

We currently have laws that protect people against certain types of harrassment due to their sex, age, reglion or handicap but not for their orintagion. But if it were proven that their orinatagion was no more a 'chosen' thing than their age or sex or handicap then I think that would help.

And before you say "Oh silly Polite! You have no idea!" let me again compare this to an LD. When I was in elementary school there was the retard class and everyone else. If you were in the retard class no one would speak to you, sit next to you and you were harassed. There was no defineing the diff kinds of learning disabilites or even a change in the way mentally challenged people and LD people were treated. Either you were like everyone else or you were a retard.

With the reconizion of learning disabilties as a bio- sometimes bio-chemical brain pattern a lot of that changed. LD's are now mainstreamed and while some allowances are made (like Slingerland classes, lower tests exspectations in some areas, etc) they are no longer treated like stupid scum.

Was I treated like stupid scum? Of course I was. I also moved a lot and so wasn't stranded in one class and forgotten about and developed what we call "coping skills". In 5th grade I had a college level reading level to compinstate for the stuff I didn't get.

Homosexual's also had coping skills. "Acting straight", getting married and having children while lying to themselves and/or their wives....It's only in the last couple of decades that more people have come out and been open...which has sparked research.

I do not think I am stupid. And I do not think gays are inhertantly wicked and icky.

And I've run out of rant.

I'm gonna go check the other threads now. So there.

 

[seXieleXie]

there is really no such thing as a pure 100% genetic "cause" to such a complex set of behaviors as sexuality. there may be genetic influences, there may be very strong ones, but environment always plays a part. in addition, it's not really possible to separate humans from an environment, so it's hard to know the extent to which biology contributes to sexuality.

by the way, the scientific communite at large agrees that while there is no clear answer to what causes one's sexuality, there is no effective way to change it either. i'm not saying every single scientist believes this, but it is pretty well accepted that, even though we really really need one, there is no cure for being straight.

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

This reminds me of a story I read once about a human boy raised away from other humans, when he sees a nude woman for the frist time it says "He did not know what he wanted to do, but he did know he wanted to do it urgenently."

 

[oh21]

Very interesting view points from everyone.

Do you think society will ever get to a point where sex is just sex and everyone just does what they like without thinking about it?

In reality, does it matter of one chose his or her sexuality or attained it from nature somehow.... we like what we like

 

[deliciously_naughty]

Homosexuality runs in families? Um, haven't heard that one before...myself, and almost every gay person I know or have met through various lgbt groups has been the only person in their family. There was nothing in my upbringing that told me that homosexuality or bisexuality was ok. And before I'm flamed, no, I don't think that "because it's been my experience" is a scientific or legitimate explanation...I'm simply stating that within my experience, that's been the case.

I personally think that it's biological. If it were environment, there would be no gays from or in the bible belt.

 

[oh21]

I dunoo....maybe there is too much pent up sexual agression in the bible belt.....perhaps it unduly influences people

 

[PoliteSuccubus]

I saw it on a report on HBO that they did about two years ago that while the links aren't direct (within one generation) homosexuality does tend to run in families. I don't remember the exact number, in the high 30's, but they also said that the data at this time was slanted because a lot of people lived double lives and may not have been openly gay.

They exspected that, with time and more people coming out, more data would be available to support the theory.

In my own family there hasn't been any out and out homosexual's but bi-sexualality is multi-genertional.

They also said that in the past when another person in the family showed homosexual tendency the other family member was blamed for influenceing the younger one (read molest etc) and would often be forced away from the family. "And that's why we don't talk about your Dad's brother Dave anymore, dear."

 

[ithaqua]

Homosexuality runs in families? Um, haven't heard that one before...myself, and almost every gay person I know or have met through various lgbt groups has been the only person in their family.

There are homosexuals on both sides of my family. So I come by it honestly.

 

[pollyjean]

Very interesting view points from everyone.


In reality, does it matter of one chose his or her sexuality or attained it from nature somehow.... we like what we like

I agree.... We like what we like

 

[ReBeLBeLLe]

I do believe in time that science will be able to prove why an idividual may lean one way or the other in regard to their realationships with one of the same sex. I also believe that no matter what science proves that we all make the choice to follow what we feel is our own natural inclinations. I have argued this point with a very good friend of mine that was gay. He refused to accept that his lifestyle was a choice. I was raised with the belief that same sex relationships were wrong. I do know I am happier with a woman, but I feel when it comes right down to it we make a choice to go where we are happiest or we make a choice to settle for what society expects of us.

 

[Raimondin]

where does homosexuality come from ?

this discussion has happened on the GB with mixed views ... i presume the views will be more predictable here but just was curious

Yeah, I get a real kick reading "mixed views" especially from straight or bi people who think they have the answers to your question. I don't have the answer, but I'm sure am glad I was born gay!

 

[gaymm]

my story

Well it was already mentioned above here.

But from my own experience, I was raised in a Catholic family, including parocial schooling. I lead a pretty sheltered life and didnt even know what homosexuality or being gay was. (Until later in adolescence when I learned it was wrong and evil).
I recall and incident when I was 10 or so when some friends and I found a skin magazine (wasn't even penthouse, something more raunchy than that), and I recall them being all excited about it and the naked women. It was not something that was interesting to me. Then all of a sudden, the page was turned and it was a picture of a naked man and woman. I recall feeling really funny about the guy in the picture and looking at his penis. I think I discovered masterbation shortly after that and that image always was a prime focus of my excitement.

Cut to years later. My first sexual experience was with another man. He tried to seduce me...he didn't have to try very hard.

Cut to several years later, It was the late 70s, I was getting out of high school, and had only "dated" one girl. We had two dates and on the second date she practically had to r*%e me to have sex. That was my last time I saw her, I broke it off.

Off to college, early 80s, aids and homophobia. I wasnt attracted to girls. I thought there was something wrong with me. I would party with my friends, but never took anyone back to the dorm/room. It was during that time I started to really learn that gay men existed in the real world. Hell some even attended my college and were whispered about, but always in a bad way. I was scared and remained deep in the closet.

Cut to many years later. I know that I am gay. I am not in the closet, but I don't broadcast my sexuality either.

Big deal you say, what is the point of all this...well let me back up a bit.
My dad was extremely homophobic, and remains so to this day (he is in his 80s). My parent's have been divorced since I was very young, and they have no contact whatsoever.

He (dad) never remarried, but always had several close single male friends. One of which committed suicide many years ago, and I have come to learn (years later, through mutual gay friends) that it was because of his severe depression and struggles with his sexual identity. They say he was gay...but that he would never admit it. (He was, btw, one of my dad's closest friends, they often went on vacations together.)

I have one male cousin on my dad's side, and he is also gay.

I have not come out to my family, and have no intention of doing so. We are all separated by many States, and there is little chance of them ever finding out. I prefer it to remain that way. I know how they will react-not good.

What is the point? Is my dad gay too? I have no idea. Do I suspect that he may be, or struggling with it? certainly. I have also heard that homosexuality runs in families. I obviously think this is true. (Sorry I have no information on my grandparents, as they died when I was very young, and only have vague memories of them.)

My parent's never discussed the bird's and the bees with me. Sex simply was not talked about. What I know I learned on my own.

Sorry for the length and the ramblings, this is just my experience.

chris

 

[Captain_R]

Homosexuality is a disease in the brain.

 

[interfacial]

I would think that while homosexuality is not necessarily caused by specific genes, that their probably are biological influences that happen in childhood or prenatally. Most likely, these are hormonal. But, that isn't to say that all or most are in fact caused by these, or that these alone are enough to trigger anything. Homosexuality may not be a choice exactly, but I hardly think it's biological enough for people to be born homosexual.

Frankly, I hate to excuse/reason/justify anything from being born a certain way. I doubt I was born to anything. Many people like the idea of being born a certain way, because you can't be blamed for what you did or who you were in childhood, but in adulthood you can be. That thinking indicates to me that people still need a reason to justify their sexuality, as if they were guilty of something. I realize that saying people are born a certain way can mean they were literally born to that fate or that it could mean that it was something from heavy influence in infancy/childhood. I don't agree with the whole fate thing, and I don't like the phrasing even if you mean the latter.

I think their are great reasons for me to like things certain ways, and most I will never know, because there are subconscious parts of my brain that were formed mostly in infancy and childhood that may be a huge factor. Of course, I would still have no control over these things, I like what I like. (warning comic nerd joke: Or as the mother askani would say, 'what is.. is') But, the point is that if there were some alternate dimension version of me, or if I had a clone, that person probably won't be a duplicate of myself. Genetic twins raised in almost perfectly identical ways don't always become like minded, some even have different sexualities. The way a person's neural network forms is that it's following biological guides, but there is a randomness to it that makes people unique.

It's never done forming either, so you develop different traits over time. Some people are never gay, some biesexual, some people gay by childhood, gay by the end of puberty, some people aren't gay until later on in life. I doubt all of it can be explained by denial. I assume a lot of people with the 'born that way' mentaility pretty much have to believe it's all denial in order to justify their views, but I'm not them. I could go as far to say that once you reach a point past your 'childhood', you can even assert control over what you do like and don't like. Adults have the mental capacity to change who they are towards one way or the other without the use of denial. They can work these things through consciously to make them a part of themselves. It's pretty much what adulthood is, and why would sexuality be so different?

 

[scoobytoo2000]

Very well written response. I think maybe I am just to basic in my thoughts. If it makes you happy then do what makes you happy, and for the rest of the world, I really do not give a damn. Life is way to short and hard to worry about what others think, as long as you are not killing or harming anyone else, what you do is yours, and your partners own business.