"Beyond haiku" -- Project? Any chance?

[Senna Jawa]

It's something I was thinking about for years but somehow didn't dare to commit myself.

Until recently it was impossible to carry anything on Internet for a longer time (I tried with a fractional success only), Internet was not stable enough, and technologically it didn't provide adequate environment or tools. Today, as here on Literotica, the tools and technology are available. The only issue is talent and willingness.

My project has three components within two stages. The two components of the first stage are: (i) absorbing the folk+oriental understanding of poetry and acquiring taste (so that only the best Western poems will be accepted and many known poems will be rejected as lacking good taste). (ii) understanding and getting fluent with kennings. That's the first stage. Achieving that much would be already a lot. Then comes the second stage, which I call symbolically "beyond haiku" (as oppossed to "short of haiku"). I have only started it a time ago, just barely, and stopped. The goal is to use kennings heavily while poem underneath satisfies all the rigors impossed by folk/oriental poetry.

The distinction between "short of haiku" (not up to the standard of haiku) and "beyond haiku" will be confusing and impossible to understand for a majority of poets and readers (for a long time). It is a huge difference, dramatic, drastic, but hard to appreciate for the regular audience. Thus the goal is truly poetry and not popularity.

Observe that when I mention haiku I only mean haiku aesthetic and poetic standards. I don't mean any restriction to 3-line poems or anything like this. The haiku philosophy is really the Chinese philosophy; the haiku masters -- Basho i Buson -- were learning from Chinese, who have developed their poetry in a continuous way over much more than a thousand years. No other school of art has such a progressive continuity. In the whole spectrum of human activities only mathematics has an even more impressive history.

I am in no hurry to start. I don't want to push my project.

I warn U that if U take seriously just the folk/oriental poetry component of this project seriously U will lose much of the respect for many poems which are widely recognized. U will still admire many, and more profoundly, so don't worry too much on this account.

(If U dissuade me I will feel relieved and be grateful, I am lazy after all

Regards,

 

[Unmasked Poet]

R U kidding?

Senna Jawa

Interesting proposition but not a chance in hell it will happen. To what end? There is sufficient talent here to carry off this project. Many of your statements are outrageous. Many here posses an understanding and profound appreciation for folk/Asian poetry. You scare me! It may well be likely that we have sat in the same classrooms and studied the same philosophies and poets. The complex integration of the written word as a progression of existence is certainly not beyond the scope of western poetry. They are separate disciplines. Admittedly the shades and nuances available within what you call (oriental) require a different skill-set to read, appreciate and practice. Yet it is not beyond a child to do so if they choose to.

Kennings are not difficult to perform. As with any other facet of writing and technique practice will make perfect. What you propose sounds more pyrotechnics than poetry. Perhaps start your mission with a simple illustration develop the ability of the members here to fashion kennings with an Asian sensibility. From there choose a few noteworthy poems in what you describe as “beyond haiku.” Clearly it is not beyond haiku simply an expression of.

warn U that if U take seriously just the folk/oriental poetry component of this project seriously U will lose much of the respect for many poems which are widely recognized. U will still admire many, and more profoundly, so don't worry too much on this account.

This statement is arrogant and foolish perhaps an attempt at humor?
One does not lose appreciation of one style of art because you learn to appreciate another. Certainly the impressionist and cubist have something as worthwhile as DaVinci?

Western and eastern poetry are not in conflict and while you may feel the eastern style superior I suggest
you are influenced by your love of complexity. Comparing squares to circle is a foolhardy task.

Forgive the opinion, I fear it is the use of “U” for you in your writing. It would appear that some aspect of western pop culture has influenced you deeply. Unfortunate that is the slang of teenagers.

Bring it on.

U.P.

 

[daughter]

Let's get the country straight first

Senna--

Well I guess I'm not the only one to ever taste shoe leather. Before you speak as an authority it might help if you make sure you have your facts straight. Secondly, it never goes over well to be patronizing. Long before you showed up we explored the art of haiku, tanka, and renga. And many of us have bothered to read and write beyond the popular writes you clearly snub.

Many of us actually read. Why I dare say some of us are educators, published writers and librarians. I realize this is a porn board, but we seem to find time both to sex ourselves silly and read.

Matsuo Basho (1644-1694 )
Nationality: Japanese
Career: Poet
Also known as: Basho

For a comprehensive view of the master poet check out the poet's corner

Brief intro courtesy of Gale Publishing:

Matsuo Basho (1644-1694) was one of the greatest Japanese poets. He elevated haiku to the level of serious poetry in numerous anthologies and travel diaries.
The name of Matsuo Basho is associated especially with the celebrated Genroku era (ca. 1680-1730), which saw the flourishing of many of Japan's greatest and most typical literary and artistic personalities. Although Basho was the contemporary of writers like the novelist and poet Ihara Saikaku and the dramatist Chikamatsu Monzaemon, he was far from being an exponent of the new middle-class culture of the city dwellers of that day. Rather, in his poetry and in his attitude toward life he seemed to harken back to a period some 300 years earlier. An innovator in poetry, spiritually and culturally he maintained a great tradition of the past.

 

[Senna Jawa]

I am sorry, it was foolish of me. Let's forget it.

Regards,