"Best" E-Publisher?

[Rumple Foreskin]

Many writers here at the old hangout have been e-published. Many more have not. Here's a chance for some of the former to do a good deed (while bragging at the same time) by giving a "heads-up" to those of us in the latter group about e-publishers who handle erotic genres.

Any recommendations, warnings, or war stories? Which ones have you found to be the most supportive, biggest, best paying or vice versa?

I got the idea for this from a thread on the EROTIC ROMANCE WRITERS FORUM My only contribution was that judging by the number of AH who work with Phaze, I'd give it serious consideration. Several others agreed. They also like Freya's Bower. Someone who actually sounded like they knew what they were talking about left this post:

In no particular order for ones who have been around a while I say Loose ID, EC, Liquid Silver, Samhain , Linden Bay. For a very promising newcomer I recommend Total-e-bound.

Yes I am biased as I've dealt with them all and had no major problems to speak of.

Site owner Emily Veinglory also has an interesting post on this topic on her blog, EROTIC ROMANCE. Here's the key paragraph:

The early figures give this top five in terms of initial first month sales only 1) Ellora's Cave, 2) Loose Id, 3) Samhain, 4) Liquid Silver Books, 5) Torquere Press*. Please bear in mind that these data are not representative and give a rough estimate only. Other sales-based information suggests similar front runners. For example, the RWA recognise: Ellora's Cave, Triskelion, Loose Id and Samhain while Brenda Hiatt's 'Show Me the Money' shows 1) Ellora's Cave, 2) Renaissance Ebooks, 3) Changeling, 4) New Concepts Press and 5) Triskelion as the higher earning e-publishers.

NOTE: Triskelion has since gone out of business.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[rgraham666]

First, the RWA is currently changing its rules so that only if you're published with a New York print publisher can a writer be considered 'published' in their eyes. Every thing else is now 'vanity publishing'.

I'm too new to the business to have much of an opinion. I am pleased with both my e-publishers, Phaze and Aspen Mountain Press, so far.

 

[Skip1934a]

I submitted one to Total-e-bound, but too late for their 'grand opening'. They are a British group, but I see a lot of others in the mix. If they accept mine, I'll endorse them as very perceptive. Otherwise, I'll try another publisher.

 

[SesameStreet]

Many writers here at the old hangout have been e-published. Many more have not. Here's a chance for some of the former to do a good deed (while bragging at the same time) by giving a "heads-up" to those of us in the latter group about e-publishers who handle erotic genres.

Any recommendations, warnings, or war stories? Which ones have you found to be the most supportive, biggest, best paying or vice versa?

I got the idea for this from a thread on the EROTIC ROMANCE WRITERS FORUM My only contribution was that judging by the number of AH who work with Phaze, I'd give it serious consideration. Several others agreed. They also like Freya's Bower. Someone who actually sounded like they knew what they were talking about left this post:

Site owner Emily Veinglory also has an interesting post on this topic on her blog, EROTIC ROMANCE. Here's the key paragraph:

NOTE: Triskelion has since gone out of business.

Rumple Foreskin

Glad to see that my Publisher, Renaissance E-Books, is mentioned in there. I know that the owner ,Jean Marie Stein, does a bag up job on promoting her Authors.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

Thanks to Rob, Street, and Skip. Hope some of the folks with Phaze check-in.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[English Lady]

I love Phaze. They are such an encouraging group of people, the publisher is effecient, understanding and enthused and the editors and cover arists are top notch. I have not one complaint about them, they're going places, definitely going places.

 

[impressive]

I love Phaze. They are such an encouraging group of people, the publisher is effecient, understanding and enthused and the editors and cover arists are top notch. I have not one complaint about them, they're going places, definitely going places.

Of course, I agree. I wouldn't invest so much of my time/energy on company endeavors if I didn't.

Phaze is still small ... but growing rapidly. When I signed (July '05), there was a stable of about 20 authors. Now there are over 100. That doesn't mean it's signing everyone who submits, though. The acceptance rate is still under 5%

As the erotic imprint of a larger house (Mundania Press), it has a safety net that many/most e-publishers lack.

The environment is very encouraging, both from the management and from the other authors on the "team." And, yes, it does have a team atmosphere. We all recognize that what helps one Phaze author helps all Phaze authors.

I've heard some gripe that Phaze gives undue advantage to its in-house authors, but the steady crop of new authors being signed does not support that assertion.

Authors expecting big royalties checks will be disappointed, though. Sales are not the greatest ... yet. That can be said of most e-publishers. At a 40% royalty, you're going to earn $0.80 per sale on a $2 ebook sold directly from the publisher site (where it gets the entire $2 gross revenue) -- less if sold through a 3rd party distributor like FictionWise or All Romance eBooks that pocket upwards of 50% of the sale price. So, you're gonna have to sell quite a few copies to earn anything appreciable.

I strongly believe that Phaze is (as EL put it) "going places" ... and I'm going with it.

My first choice, were I inclined to shop other e-publishers, would be Samhain. Samhain has a solid, class-act management team with great business acumen. It's grown exponentially in the past year. It was started by former Ellora's Cave staff.

Ellora's Cave, I hear, has the best sales numbers (and thus, the biggest royalties checks) -- but the complaints of sloppy editing and getting lost in the crowd make EC unattractive to me. Plus, EC doesn't cater to my style of erotica.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I would publish with E-Book publishers. But they want porn.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

So far, Samhain is my favorite publisher. I have books/stories with Stardust, Samhain, Whiskey Creek Press, Mardi Gras Publishing, Charles River Press, and now with Phaze, although that one's so new, I can't tell you what it's like to work with them. I trust Imp, tho. If I had to do it all over again, I'd throw all my eggs into the Samhain basket. Everything Imp says I've found true about the company. Well, except for my erotic horrors, I'd probably keep those with mardigras, since they have their "voo doo moon" line, and most publishers don't cater to erotic horror outside of vampires and shapeshifters...

 

[Guest]

Phaze has been great for me, though my first book doesn't come out until Monday. They've accepted another story to come out in the spring. I also sent a manuscript into Freya's Boyer and they are very interested but can't start working with me until mid August, so I'm very encouraged.

I know that I've learned so much through Phaze and their editing staff. Some stuff I had no idea of since I've never taken a writing course in my life. I did manage to help my little sister get an A+ through her process writing course though...

 

[dr_mabeuse]

(I've just had the shittiest week in the world and you can bet I'm so going to brag so here comes the Whore of Babylon SIg Line and everything...)

No, seriously, I have books with Ellora's Cave, Renaissance, and eXtasy E-Books, and Ellora's Cave is far and away the best.

But EC is not just an e-book publisher. They do hard-copy too, and my first book was in hard copy and sold out 2 printings, sold in Barnes & Noble and is still avialable on Amazon. EC just bought their own presses too and will start printing their own, but while hard-copy is prestigious, you only get like 7-10% commission on hard-copy while you get 33-45% on E-book, so that's where the money is when you start.

RWA puts out a book saying what you can expect as a payout from different publishers for a book. For EC, first month sales should be roughly$2000-3000. It drops off from there rather steeply, but the more books you have out, the more your monthly platform rises. That's ball park correct in my experience.

The thing about publishing is, it's not just royalty. Much more important is market presence and publicity and advertising, because if no one buys your books - and without promotion no one will. They'll never find them - commission is rather moot. You want a publisher who's known and has clout and can get your books reviewed, and that's what puts EC so far ahead of everyone else. They invented Romantica, literally. They coined the phrase for romance novels with graphic sex, and now it's the fastest growing segment of the romance industry and they're still the industry leader, although their reputation is kind of downscale compared to Harlequin and Dell and Triskelion's lines.

Still, they were the first Romantica publisher recognized by RWA, and they ruled the roost for while. They've got their hands full fighting off the big dogs now though.

Everyone else is second rung, I think

Renaissance doesn't advertise as far as I know, which means you'd might as well self-publish. Your book is just going to sit there. No one's going to find it. I made like a total of $50 from them in 2 years off the book I have with them

Same with eXstasy, although they're under new ownership now, and they're at least trying to help their authors do their own publicity.

But that's what it comes down to. Publicity and exposure. If they don't help you there, you'd might as well publish it yourself and sell it yourself and keep all the money, because what are they doing for you? They're getting it proofread and slapping on a cover from istockphoto for $1 and making it available on the web and keeping 50% of whatever you sell, and that's e-publishing. They're really not doing anything.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Even for just erotic romance, the answer to that question is very complex.

What's the most friendly e-publisher for newcomers?
What's the best paying e-publisher?
What's the best e-publisher for simple pulp erotica? Vignettes? Novellas? Full blown stories with equal parts rich plot and masturbation material erotica?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Even for just erotic romance, the answer to that question is very complex.

What's the most friendly e-publisher for newcomers?
What's the best paying e-publisher?
What's the best e-publisher for simple pulp erotica? Vignettes? Novellas? Full blown stories with equal parts rich plot and masturbation material erotica?

Well, probably any low-rent e-publisher is going to be "friendly", because publishing your book costs him next to nothing. It's all profit to him. It costs him ~$35 to get it proofread, $1 for a cover, $15 for an ISBN (the Library of Congress Number, and he doesn't even have to buy that if he doesn't want), and whatever fraction of a cent it costs him to store it online for people to buy, and then he just sits back and lets you send the customers to him and takes 50% of whatever you happen to sell. That tends to make these people very friendly. So friendly that outfits like PublishAmerica were considered by some to be nothing but scams (some of them used to charge an "editing fee". You should NEVER have to pay any fees to have your book published.)

Don't believe me? Try it. I guarantee you you'll find an e-publisher first time out. Just aim low. It really is that simple.

You won't sell any books, because selling books and getting published are two completely different issues, but you'll be published, and you'll be able to splash your cover across your sig line like us other big-time choads. And after you convince your friends to buy their copies, you'll get your royalty check for $15.42 or whatever and that'll be that.

As far as paying, if you have an agent, you can go with the big name houses and work on an advance in which case they'll negotiate a deal for you where you get paid so much in advance of your book or books. At our level, coming out of Literotica, you won't be retiring to the South of France. All the others will work on a flat royalty system which will be, realistically, about 35-40% of sales for e-books and 7.5-10% for hard-copy.

No one pays for 'pulp', vignettes (you mean like Penthouse letters?), or any of that other stuff that I'm aware of, or if they do, those markets are cut-throat copetitive. The only thing you'll get paid for is novels, although Harlequin just started a line of Spoice Shorts that are 5K-15K word stories, and if you think you're good enough for Harlequin, go for it.

On the other hand, outfits like Phaze, Triskelian, Aphrodisia, and many others do a fine job and have many happy authors working for them. You can make a living at this business but you have to work at it, and unfortunately there's virtually no paying market for erotic short stories.

 

[Guest]

(I've just had the shittiest week in the world and you can bet I'm so going to brag so here comes the Whore of Babylon SIg Line and everything...)

No, seriously, I have books with Ellora's Cave, Renaissance, and eXtasy E-Books, and Ellora's Cave is far and away the best.

But EC is not just an e-book publisher. They do hard-copy too, and my first book was in hard copy and sold out 2 printings, sold in Barnes & Noble and is still avialable on Amazon. EC just bought their own presses too and will start printing their own, but while hard-copy is prestigious, you only get like 7-10% commission on hard-copy while you get 33-45% on E-book, so that's where the money is when you start.

RWA puts out a book saying what you can expect as a payout from different publishers for a book. For EC, first month sales should be roughly$2000-3000. It drops off from there rather steeply, but the more books you have out, the more your monthly platform rises. That's ball park correct in my experience.

The thing about publishing is, it's not just royalty. Much more important is market presence and publicity and advertising, because if no one buys your books - and without promotion no one will. They'll never find them - commission is rather moot. You want a publisher who's known and has clout and can get your books reviewed, and that's what puts EC so far ahead of everyone else. They invented Romantica, literally. They coined the phrase for romance novels with graphic sex, and now it's the fastest growing segment of the romance industry and they're still the industry leader, although their reputation is kind of downscale compared to Harlequin and Dell and Triskelion's lines.

Still, they were the first Romantica publisher recognized by RWA, and they ruled the roost for while. They've got their hands full fighting off the big dogs now though.

Everyone else is second rung, I think

Renaissance doesn't advertise as far as I know, which means you'd might as well self-publish. Your book is just going to sit there. No one's going to find it. I made like a total of $50 from them in 2 years off the book I have with them

Same with eXstasy, although they're under new ownership now, and they're at least trying to help their authors do their own publicity.

But that's what it comes down to. Publicity and exposure. If they don't help you there, you'd might as well publish it yourself and sell it yourself and keep all the money, because what are they doing for you? They're getting it proofread and slapping on a cover from istockphoto for $1 and making it available on the web and keeping 50% of whatever you sell, and that's e-publishing. They're really not doing anything.

I submitted once to them, got the regular first reply that they'd received my submission and then nothing. I submitted again and got a reply in three days but the manuscript had already been picked up by Phaze. I guess I should try again with Ellora's Cave.

PS. Hope your week gets much much much better.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I submitted once to them, got the regular first reply that they'd received my submission and then nothing. I submitted again and got a reply in three days but the manuscript had already been picked up by Phaze. I guess I should try again with Ellora's Cave.

PS. Hope your week gets much much much better.

Thanks love. Thanks much.

The way I connected with Ellora's Cave is really a kind of Cinderella story I don't think I ever told here. It was entirely due to Literotica. In 2004 (I think) Ellora's Cave was looking to start a more hard-core line called "Ghede Books" and an editor was scouting Literotica , reading novels and novellas, looking for material, and read part of a novel I had up at the time and contacted me. I'll never forget what he said. He said, "If you're giving this stuff away for free, you're crazy." He wanted it for Ghede.

Well, after a year of frustration they gave up on Ghede as a separate label (and a good thing too. God! What a name! And Jesus! What a frustrating year!). They folded Ghede into EC and EC picked up a bunch of Ghede's authors, including me, and ever since then I've had a foot in the door. They picked up my next three novels almost as soon as I sent them in.

I've sent my newest out to some agents. I'm trying to break into the next tier of publishing, but I don't think it's going to happen this time. But now that I think of it, I've been incredibly lucky.

 

[CeriseNoire]

Well, probably any low-rent e-publisher is going to be "friendly", because publishing your book costs him next to nothing. It's all profit to him. It costs him ~$35 to get it proofread, $1 for a cover, $15 for an ISBN (the Library of Congress Number, and he doesn't even have to buy that if he doesn't want), and whatever fraction of a cent it costs him to store it online for people to buy, and then he just sits back and lets you send the customers to him and takes 50% of whatever you happen to sell. That tends to make these people very friendly. So friendly that outfits like PublishAmerica were considered by some to be nothing but scams (some of them used to charge an "editing fee". You should NEVER have to pay any fees to have your book published.)

Don't believe me? Try it. I guarantee you you'll find an e-publisher first time out. Just aim low. It really is that simple.

You won't sell any books, because selling books and getting published are two completely different issues, but you'll be published, and you'll be able to splash your cover across your sig line like us other big-time choads. And after you convince your friends to buy their copies, you'll get your royalty check for $15.42 or whatever and that'll be that.

As far as paying, if you have an agent, you can go with the big name houses and work on an advance in which case they'll negotiate a deal for you where you get paid so much in advance of your book or books. At our level, coming out of Literotica, you won't be retiring to the South of France. All the others will work on a flat royalty system which will be, realistically, about 35-40% of sales for e-books and 7.5-10% for hard-copy.

No one pays for 'pulp', vignettes (you mean like Penthouse letters?), or any of that other stuff that I'm aware of, or if they do, those markets are cut-throat copetitive. The only thing you'll get paid for is novels, although Harlequin just started a line of Spoice Shorts that are 5K-15K word stories, and if you think you're good enough for Harlequin, go for it.

On the other hand, outfits like Phaze, Triskelian, Aphrodisia, and many others do a fine job and have many happy authors working for them. You can make a living at this business but you have to work at it, and unfortunately there's virtually no paying market for erotic short stories.

For short stories there are always print anthologies. It's nice publicity too, or at least an attempt to get your name out there before writing a whole novel. Not something to make a living on, but an nice bit of extra cash here and there. There are a couple sites out there that'll pay decently for a short story.

 

[Skip1934a]

Just got a rejection for my submission to Total-e-bound. No reason, just 'Sorry, and good luck with another publisher."

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Just got a rejection for my submission to Total-e-bound. No reason, just 'Sorry, and good luck with another publisher."

Sorry Skip... keep trying!!

 

[Skip1934a]

Sorry Skip... keep trying!!

Thanks for the encouragement. I probably submitted it too early. I had an offer to review it by a published writer at Lit, to provide suggestions for improving it, but it never came to fruition.

 

[Skip1934a]

Anybody have a suggestion for which publisher might be the hungriest for submissions? I plan to do a minor rewrite before I try a different publisher.

 

[SesameStreet]

Renaissance doesn't advertise as far as I know, which means you'd might as well self-publish. Your book is just going to sit there. No one's going to find it. I made like a total of $50 from them in 2 years off the book I have with them

.

I will have to politely disagree with you on this statement. Rennaissance E-Books do promote their Sizzler Line (the erotic works) very well. Let's just say that I have received MUCH more roaltyies from them than you have.