Bernie's new 77% 'death tax'

[TalkRadio1]

WASHINGTON - Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., will unveil a plan Thursday to dramatically expand the federal estate tax on the wealthy, including a new 77 percent rate on billionaires' estates, as leading Democratic politicians push new taxes on the richest Americans to combat inequality.

Sanders's bill, the "For the 99.8% Act," would tax the estates of the 0.2 percent of Americans who inherit more than $3.5 million, while the rest of the country "would not see their taxes go up by one penny under this plan," according to aides to the Vermont senator, who is considering a 2020 presidential bid.

Three top Republican senators this week released a plan to outright abolish the estate tax, which the GOP already significantly weakened with their 2017 tax law to only apply to those passing on more than $11 million (or $22 million for couples).

Sanders's plan would restore the 77 percent top estate tax rate that was in place in the U.S. from 1941 to 1976, tax estates worth more than $3.5 million, and create several new estate tax brackets, including a 55 percent rate on estates worth more than $50 million.

https://www.lmtonline.com/news/article/Sanders-to-propose-dramatic-expansion-in-estate-13576723.php

 

[Que]

What an idiot. No billionaire dies with any money much less billions of dollars. That's long before their death put into a trust which they're not going to be able to touch.

Death taxes mostly hit the middle class specifically small business owners and Farmers. It's unconscionable. The only reason no one's overthrowing the government over it is because the people most affected by it are dead.

 

[Que]

That is absolutely infuriating.

Talk about mob rule. Of course it's not going to affect 98% of the people. That doesn't make it moral or just. Exactly the opposite. How about we have a tax on billionaires and only billionaires get to vote on what the tax will be.

That should be the case for everything: if you do not have specific skin in the game you should not be able to vote to tax someone else who does. If you are not paying taxes , in other words if you're a net recipient from the IRS you shouldn't be able to vote at all on anything that involves taxation.

 

[navytime09]

Is 3.5M really middle class? And how are federal taxes not everyone's concern?

 

[HisArpy]

Trump's Tax Act eliminated the "death tax" and now Bernie wants to re-impose it?

 

[Oblimo]

Anyone who calls the estate tax a "death tax" is an idiot who doesn't understand the history and purpose of estate tax law, nor the most basic principle of property Common Law.

In sum: it is the tax levied against the estate to fund the government's enforcement of the decedent's wishes and/or the intestate succession of the decedent's heirs rather than random people just grabbing what they could.

And that basic principle of property Common Law?

A CORPSE CAN HOLD NO RIGHTS.

Edit: I will probably have to spell this out so I might as well do it now.
You cannot tax a dead "person" because a dead "person" is a) no longer a person and b) cannot be in possession of money or property for the government to tax. Because they are dead.

Edit edi: note this is particular to English and US Common Law. Roman law is a little different as it reflects Pharaonic law. No I am not kidding.

 

[Que]

Anyone who calls the estate tax a "death tax" is an idiot who doesn't understand the history and purpose of estate tax law, nor the most basic principle of property Common Law.

In sum: it is the tax levied against the estate to fund the government's enforcement of the decedent's wishes and/or the intestate succession of the decedent's heirs rather than random people just grabbing what they could.

And that basic principle of property Common Law?

A CORPSE CAN HOLD NO RIGHTS.

Idiot.

While you're still alive you write a piece of paper telling where that needs to go and you don't need any goddamn Court to enforce any of it, unless and until some greedy bastard decides it would be fun to pay some parasitic lawyers to contest it.

You've already been fully taxed on every bit of wealth that you have while you were accumulating it. What's left is what they will leeches didn't already take you f****** parasite.

Maybe they didn't teach you in law school about trust. Trust don't need a warm body. Doesn't matter if you're a corpse your trust lives on in perpetuity if you'd set it up that way.

Idiot.

This is an unconscionable tax on people who can't afford parasitic lawyers to set these things up for them. Which shouldn't be necessary because it's unconscionable to tax a grieving family.

Even more so when what you're going to do is you're going to force them to sell the Family Farm or the family business because that's the only way they can afford to pay the parasitic taxes you f****** leech.

 

[Que]

By the way you f****** hack corpses actually do have rights that survived their death. Sometimes privacy for example.

 

[Oblimo]

Idiot.

While you're still alive you write a piece of paper telling where that needs to go and you don't need any goddamn Court to enforce any of it, unless and until some greedy bastard decides it would be fun to pay some parasitic lawyers to contest it.

You've already been fully taxed on every bit of wealth that you have while you were accumulating it. What's left is what they will leeches didn't already take you f****** parasite.

Maybe they didn't teach you in law school about trust. Trust don't need a warm body. Doesn't matter if you're a corpse your trust lives on in perpetuity if you'd set it up that way.

Idiot.

This is an unconscionable tax on people who can't afford parasitic lawyers to set these things up for them. Which shouldn't be necessary because it's unconscionable to tax a grieving family.

Even more so when what you're going to do is you're going to force them to sell the Family Farm or the family business because that's the only way they can afford to pay the parasitic taxes you f****** leech.

Oh, I knew you would go there. I just couldn't imagine someone getting so angry about something they absolutely do not understand.

While you're still alive you write a piece of paper telling where that needs to go and you don't need any goddamn Court to enforce any of it, unless and until some greedy bastard decides it would be fun to pay some parasitic lawyers to contest it.

This is so fucking wrong it's pathetic.

Tell me, oh Que, just why people obey that little piece of paper after you are dead? Why does a bank not claim the money in your checking account after you die, and instead turn control over it to your heir or intestate successor?

Is it the bank's moral core? Is it their religion?

 

[Que]

Oh well when you put it that way 77% of everything you've ever managed to keep out of the government's hands is certainly a small price to pay for them to do some really fancy shuffling up some paperwork.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Is 3.5M really middle class? And how are federal taxes not everyone's concern?

Middle class has nothing to do with how much you make.

Has everything to do with HOW you make it.

 

[navytime09]

Middle class has nothing to do with how much you make.

Has everything to do with HOW you make it.

How so? Work Ethic, white vs blue collar?

 

[Oblimo]

Okay folks, history lesson:

I am a warlord of pre-Medieval England.

I lay claim by right of combat to a huge swath of land in the fertile lowlands somewhere. I call it Blackacre, call myself Lord of Blackacre, and build Blackacre Keep.

I take Mrs. Blackacre as my bride as weregild from one of my skirmishes with Lord Whiteacre the west. With her I have my son, Que Son of Blackacre. I take ink to parchment and write QUE GETS ALL OF BLACKACRE WHEN I DIE. (Actually a pay a clerk to write it and I mark it with my warsign, a poorly drawn pair of boobies.)

When my son is 10 and I give him his first dirty fighting lesson, he gets in a lucky strike, I throw a blood clot and die.

The Lord of Whiteacre shows up after hearing rumors of my demise.

Que shows him my piece of paper.

Whiteacre calls Que an idiot, eats his liver, and installs Candi Son of Whiteacre as the new Lord of Blackacre Keep.

Do you see the problem now?

 

[Que]

Okay folks, history lesson:

I am a warlord of pre-Medieval England.

I lay claim by right of combat to a huge swath of land in the fertile lowlands somewhere. I call it Blackacre, call myself Lord of Blackacre, and build Blackacre Keep.

I take Mrs. Blackacre as my bride as weregild from one of my skirmishes with Lord Whiteacre the west. With her I have my son, Que Son of Blackacre. I take ink to parchment and write QUE GETS ALL OF BLACKACRE WHEN I DIE. (Actually a pay a clerk to write it and I mark it with my warsign, a poorly drawn pair of boobies.)

When my son is 10 and I give him his first dirty fighting lesson, he gets in a lucky strike, I throw a blood clot and die.

The Lord of Whiteacre shows up after hearing rumors of my demise.

Que shows him my piece of paper.

Whiteacre calls Que an idiot, eats his liver, and installs Candi Son of Whiteacre as the new Lord of Blackacre Keep.

Do you see the problem now?

Yeah we fixed that with the Second Amendment. Also by not having a national police force and ceding control to local County Sheriffs, who are elected generally speaking.

 

[Que]

We also have these things called title companies and County Recorders.

None of them charge 77% of your wealth.

Not incidentally since its idiot lawyers in Congress that write the idiot laws that then have to be interpreted by and turned into trust by idiot lawyers it doesn't cost 77% of your income to set up a trust.

Somehow that's okay with you I guess?

You know not having to pay the king 77% of your income for the privilege of handing it down to your heirs.

 

[Oblimo]

Oh well when you put it that way 77% of everything you've ever managed to keep out of the government's hands is certainly a small price to pay for them to do some really fancy shuffling up some paperwork.

Oh? Is Bernie proposing to get rid of the Unified Tax Credit?

And did you know that the estate tax is, in fact, entirely voluntary?

You could currently give away your worldly possessions in $14,000 incrememts, die with an estate worth $11.8 million dollars, and your heirs don't pay a red cent? Not only that, any unrealized capital gains on your property are completely wiped out and never ever taxed?

Did you know you have no damned idea what you are talking about?

 

[Oblimo]

Yeah we fixed that with the Second Amendment.

What the fucking fuck does that have to do with my neighbor seizing my land after I die?

Also by not having a national police force and ceding control to local County Sheriffs, who are elected generally speaking.

Excuse me. Whiteacre isn't the government. I am the sovereign of Blackacre. Well, I was. He is the sovereign of Whiteacre. Warlords, remember?

At this point, you idiot, my ghost would have loved for there to be a national police force, say, maybe a bunch of fellow warlords sworn to a High King, to stop Whiteacre from killing you.

Son, I am disappoint.

 

[Que]

What the fucking fuck does that have to do with my neighbor seizing my land after I die?



Excuse me. Whiteacre isn't the government. I am the sovereign of Blackacre. Well, I was. He is the sovereign of Whiteacre. Warlords, remember?

At this point, you idiot, my ghost would have loved for there to be a national police force, say, maybe a bunch of fellow warlords sworn to a High King, to stop Whiteacre from killing you.

Son, I am disappoint.

Maybe you hadn't heard but one of my progenitors General Greene got Cornwallis to surrender at Yorktown. Then we had this whole Constitutional Convention thing that made us a nation of laws rather than a nation of men. No more Warlords. Which is why we have the 2nd Amendment which prevents the warlord from swooping in because me and my neighbors would simply shoot him if he showed up to do so.

Were you unaware that the Warlords were successful because they were swooping down on unarmed populous?

 

[Que]

Oh? Is Bernie proposing to get rid of the Unified Tax Credit?

And did you know that the estate tax is, in fact, entirely voluntary?

You could currently give away your worldly possessions in $14,000 incrememts, die with an estate worth $11.8 million dollars, and your heirs don't pay a red cent? Not only that, any unrealized capital gains on your property are completely wiped out and never ever taxed?

Did you know you have no damned idea what you are talking about?

You're the one that doesn't have a f****** clue Bernie is talking about 3.5 million

Not everybody has any idea when they're going to die and depending on the amount of your wealth you may not be able to give it away in $14,000 increments to the people that you want to give it to. That's a pretty paltry sum actually.

 

[Oblimo]

We also have these things called title companies and County Recorders.

All because the high king of england imposed the estate tax so he could have the funds to enforce succession if one of his barons went rogue and took over his neighbor's castle after he died.

None of them charge 77% of your wealth.

And why do people obey their pieces of paper? How do companies exist as legal entities in the first place?

You know not having to pay the king 77% of your income for the privilege of handing it down to your heirs.

Are you fucking deaf?

YOU. ARE. DEAD.

You can't hand down anything after you are dead. You can't move your hands!

You die, your son grabs your house, your money, your cattle. YOU DON'T GIVE IT TO HIM. HE TAKES IT FOR HIMSELF. AND HE PAYS THE KING A PROTECTION FEE FOR PROMISING TO KILL ANYONE WHO TRIES TO TAKE IT FROM YOU.

I am always amazed at the number of Americans who can't seem to grasp this.

 

[Que]

All because the high king of england imposed the estate tax so he could have the funds to enforce succession if one of his barons went rogue and took over his neighbor's castle after he died.



And why do people obey their pieces of paper? How do companies exist as legal entities in the first place?



Are you fucking deaf?

YOU. ARE. DEAD.

You can't hand down anything after you are dead. You can't move your hands!

You die, your son grabs your house, your money, your cattle. YOU DON'T GIVE IT TO HIM. HE TAKES IT FOR HIMSELF. AND HE PAYS THE KING A PROTECTION FEE FOR PROMISING TO KILL ANYONE WHO TRIES TO TAKE IT FROM YOU.

I am always amazed at the number of Americans who can't seem to grasp this.

You are an absolute f****** God damn idiot. The same right to personal property that exist in the United States right now under force of law that doesn't have a God damn thing to do with a king exist whether it's mine or my sons. It's the same problem of Defending it from some a****** like you that wants to steal it the only difference between an a****** stealing it without the force of law is you want to be the assholes stealing it with the force of law, you f****** thief.

What is the f****** difference between me or my son fending off some a****** trying to take it from me. You're doing me no favors by promising protection of my son's rights if I pay some protection money it's the same goddamn thing as if you shook me down while I was still alive except you don't have the balls to shake me down while I'm still alive because you know what that would mean.

 

[Oblimo]

Maybe you hadn't heard but one of my progenitors General Greene got Cornwallis to surrender at Yorktown. Then we had this whole Constitutional Convention thing that made us a nation of laws rather than a nation of men. No more Warlords. Which is why we have the 2nd Amendment which prevents the warlord from swooping in because me and my neighbors would simply shoot him if he showed up to do so.

Oh god, the stupidy.

It's your neighbors who swoop in and take your property. We're not talking about the peasants here. I am a warlord. My neighbor is a warlord. You are my son.

Let's suppose instead that, somehow, a nation of farmers each tending their own land in peace came into existence. Fuck it, given them all rifles, why not.

You die leaving your wife and infant son. You're neighbor rapes your wife and feeds you to his dogs.

Let me guess, you think all your other neighbor's would rise as one and put the bad guy down out of their moral duty. Okay, suppose they do. Do you think they hand your land over to your brother in the next valley? Fuck no, taking down your evil neighbor was fucking expensive, they divide the land amongst themselves.

Were you unaware that the Warlords were successful because they were swooping down on unarmed populous?

How are you, at 10 years old, going to stop your neighbors from killing you and taking your stuff, which was formerly your fathers?

 

[Que]

You're really pathetic. You actually think that it is the government protects citizens.

The government serves at the sufferance of the citizens. We are a nation of laws that document that they told you to disregard in law school because it's a living breathing document guarantees my rights. And yes my neighbors and my neighbors in the next Valley will fight to the death to defend that document. Not your government. Not your bureaucracies. Not your judges. Not your police officers but their fellow-citizens. Pukes like you will never get it.

 

[nowisthetime]

Smells like Geritol in here.

 

[Oblimo]

You are an absolute f****** God damn idiot.

Not about this, I am not.

The same right to personal property that exist in the United States right now under force of law

Excuse me?

Force of what?

You mean the dead aren't giving their property to their heirs?

The law is?

Holy shit. You might have a brain cell in there.

Now then, why do people follow the law? What gives the law "force"? The moral fortitude of the citizenry?

that doesn't have a God damn thing to do with a king exist whether it's mine or my sons.

Okay, Que, hold onto your hat.

The King is what gives law its force. And today, the King is a democratic republic.

You're doing me no favors by promising protection of my son's rights if I pay some protection money it's the same goddamn thing as if you shook me down while I was still alive except you don't have the balls to shake me down while I'm still alive because you know what that would mean.

That's right, your neighbors don't shake you down while you are alive because you can defend yourself and your stuff.

And now you are dead and can no longer defend said stuff. You aren't even in possession of your stuff. Your 10 year old son is.

Who comes to his rescue? The King. Do you think he would do it for free?