Being gay in Tenn. is apparently a bad idea

[kellycummings]

I saw this in a thread on the GB. Stupidest fucking thing I've ever seen.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=519&u=/ap/20040317/ap_on_re_us/county_gay_ban_1&printer=1

 

[Boxlicker101]

That absolutely, totally sucks. The ignorant buffoons who passed that request are probably not so ingnorant as to think that such a law would pass constitutional muster. Having gay thoughts is obviously protected by the Bill of Rights and if anti-sodomy laws are unconstitutional, such a law would be shot down immediatrely but only after causing a lot of grief and costing the taxpayers a bundle of money. Hopefully, the Tenn. legislature will have sense enough to know this and they will ignore the nutcases from Rhea Co..

By the way, a rhea is a flightless bird from South America.

 

[shereads]

Meanwhile, in Cambodia...

According to BBC News, the King of Cambodia has been watching the San Francisco weddings with great interest and has decided that God approves of "variety" and that gay marriage should become legal in Cambodia. Take that, Tennessee.

Cambodian king backs gay marriage

Cambodia's King Norodom Sihanouk has shown that advancing years are no barrier to an open mind and liberal attitude.

After watching television images of gay marriages in San Francisco, the 81-year-old monarch has decided that single sex weddings should be allowed in Cambodia too.

He expressed his views in a hand written message on his website which has proved extremely popular in Cambodia.

The king said that as a "liberal democracy", Cambodia should allow "marriage between man and man... or between woman and woman."

He said he had respect for homosexual and lesbians and said they were as they were because God loved a "wide range of tastes."

Sihanouk, who is currently in Beijing for medical treatment, also said that transvestites should be "accepted and well-treated in our national community."

Such views are not widespread in Cambodia, but the king is hugely revered, although he is a constitutional monarch and has no executive powers.

San Francisco has issued more than 2,800 marriage licences to gay couples in the past week amid a growing debate in the US over whether such unions should be allowed.

 

[flawed_ethics]

I liked the last line:

In 2002, a federal judge ruled unconstitutional the teaching of a Bible class in the public schools.

It may not pertain directly to Tenn County, but man, you know they're awfully backwards over there.

UI wonder if you can walk up to the steps of their county courthouse, watch the passersby and just point and laugh. Without being tarred and feathered, that is.

 

[KenJames]

God, I'm glad I live in Austin!

 

[lucky-E-leven]

Hopping on board with more stupidity, KC

Wash. Trial Starting for Lesbian Minister
Wed Mar 17, 1:52 PM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!


By MELANTHIA MITCHELL, Associated Press Writer

BOTHELL, Wash. - Dozens of demonstrators were arrested Wednesday as they tried to stop a church trial that could remove a lesbian from the Methodist ministry for living openly in a lesbian relationship.

The Rev. Karen Dammann last week married her partner of nine years, Meredith Savage, in Portland, Ore., where Multnomah County officials have begun allowing same-sex marriages. The couple have a 5-year-old son.

United Methodist officials have said the trial is the first against a homosexual pastor in the denomination since 1987, when the credentials of the Rev. Rose Mary Denman of New Hampshire were revoked.

At Dammann's request, the trial in Bothell United Methodist Church northeast of Seattle was to be open to the public after jurors were chosen. She entered the church without commenting to reporters.

Outside, about 100 people demonstrated loudly but peacefully, and many blocked church officials from entering the building. Police arrested 33 people when they refused to move.

The demonstrators included members of Soulforce, an interfaith organization that supports gay rights. A handful of people protesting homosexuality stood and held signs in the church driveway.

Soulforce member Karen Weldin said the organization came to the church "to speak and give people the chance to stop this evil trial."

Dammann, on leave as pastor of First United Methodist Church in Ellensburg, 95 miles east of Seattle, is charged with "practices declared by the United Methodist Church to be incompatible to Christian teachings."

Although the church's social principles support rights and liberties for homosexuals, church law prohibits "self-avowed practicing homosexuals" from being ordained.

"Clearly the jury has to look at this prohibition and decide if it's consistent with the rest of our Methodist rules and with the Bible," said Lindsay Thompson, Dammann's lawyer. "There are people who passionately believe both sides of that issue."

Dammann did not return several calls seeking comment. After her marriage, however, she told The Seattle Times she wanted to move the culture toward open acceptance of gay and lesbian relationships.

"We wanted to add our relationship to all the others that stand to be recognized," she told the newspaper.

The United Methodist clergy of the Pacific Northwest Conference voted to retain Dammann, but the Judicial Council of the Nashville, Tenn.-based denomination reversed that decision last fall.

The council said it was "an egregious error" not to pursue charges.

During 18 months of investigative committee hearings that ended in January, Dammann said her relationship includes sexual contact.

I wonder:Whose goddamn business is it? I seriously doubt she hops up in the pulpit on Sunday and gives her congretation the rundown of their sexual exploits. Grrrrrrrrrrr... lucky

"We accept the gift of sexuality as God-given and holy," she said, according to defense papers.

Since the late 1980s, Pacific Northwest church leaders have petitioned to ease policies on homosexuality at each of the denomination's General Conferences, held every four years. During past international General Conferences, most attendees have opposed change.
__

Associated Press writer Shannon Dininny contributed to this report.


* * * * * * * * *

I'm not entirely sure why this rubbed me so wrong, but it really did. The Tennessee thing is just plain stupid, but this one seems unbelievably violating.

~lucky

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It's the traditional case of people having so boring lives of their own, that they have to interfer with others'.

 

[snooper]

Re: Hopping on board with more stupidity, KC

Wash. Trial Starting for Lesbian Minister ...

Surely this is an oxymoron?

A lesbian, as I understand it, is by definition female.
A minister of religion, as I understand it, is by definition male.

So how can this be anything but a spoof?

That should get them going!

 

[Couture]

Keep it silent...keep it hidden.

Gay people are everywhere. They are in the police department, the fire department. Gays died saving people's lives on 9/11. Gays are in the military, and have been fighting for our freedom since this country was founded.

But we keep it silent. We keep it hidden. We don't want to think about how much we owe to gay people. They are our brothers and sister, our sons and daughters. They could be you or they could be me. They are ministers. And try as hard as we can to ignore it...they are everywhere...in every walk of life.

Remember that movie Sixth Sense? Well, I see gay people.

Senator Strom Thurman had a daughter who was half black. He never aknowledged her. HIS OWN DAUGHTER! This guy was a bigot. These people...these bigots ... they passed laws protecting the sanctity of marriage too. A white person couldn't marry a Native American, a Philipino, or even someone who had one drop of "black" blood.

These bigots...these small minded people haters ... these people are at it again. They're not keeping marriage safe. They are keeping marriage from *people*. *People* can get married...but gays aren't people ... they less than people...something not quite human. That's what this boils down to. The dehumanization of gays.

These protectors of marriage. What are they protecting? Nothing! Marriage is not a person. Marriage does not have rights. Marriage is nothing but a concept. You can't injure marriage. A gang of bigots can't take marriage behind a building and beat it up. You can't fire marriage from it's job.

No, these people aren't protectors of anything. These people are bigots.

 

[kellycummings]

Re: Re: Hopping on board with more stupidity, KC

Surely this is an oxymoron?


A minister of religion, as I understand it, is by definition male.

I'm not positive but our methodist church has had a few female ministers which I assume are called ministers. At least that's what we called them. It could be that it was just easier that way and there really is a different title. I only know that when we referred to them we called them minister.

 

[KarenAM]

A number of Protestant demoninations have female ministers, including the Methodists.

And Rhea County is an embarassment to Christians everywhere. I predict lengthy spankings in the afterlife for all of them.

 

[minsue]

It's all too disgusting to comment. Our lovely state just repealed the law making homosexuality illegal about a year ago. The public 'debate' over that law before the legislature finally acted was so unbelievably vitriolic. I was amazed the saner members of the legislature actually managed to pass it.

- Mindy

 

[shereads]

Last night, Conan O'Brian noted that New York City's St. Patrick's Day parade once again had banned participation by gay groups, "to protect the sanctity of painting ourselves green and throwing up in the street."

 

[Boxlicker101]

California sometimes claims to be a progressive state but there were anti-sodomy laws on the books until the seventies. They were mostly just enforced against gay people and mostly it just gave the cops a way to shake down gay men. Finally, the leglislature had the sense to repeal them and Jerry Brown signed the repeal into law. I mention that because gay sex has only even been legal for about thirty years, although both gay and straight people had been breaking the law for years, probably since it had been passed.

 

[destinie21]

California sometimes claims to be a progressive state but there were anti-sodomy laws on the books until the seventies. They were mostly just enforced against gay people and mostly it just gave the cops a way to shake down gay men. Finally, the leglislature had the sense to repeal them and Jerry Brown signed the repeal into law. I mention that because gay sex has only even been legal for about thirty years, although both gay and straight people had been breaking the law for years, probably since it had been passed.

Maybe someone in the Cali of olde knew that the state would totally be getting screwed in the ass and heartily groped once Arnold came into office

As to the rest of it I feel slightly ill, it could be empathtic morning sickness but I doubt it

 

[Guest]

Minister only meant male because only men used to be so ordained, officially or not. To minister to someone's well being can be done by anyone. The verb came frist and it has no gender. My women friends minister to me, women minister to their children. "Lesbian minister" only means that a gay woman is full of love and good will and wants to help others. Women can be priests of love and goodwill, we all can; it's just politics that usurps the word and its meaning.

Perdita

 

[Madame Manga]

My aunt was an ordained minister. I'm not sure why anyone would assert that ministers are male by definition unless he meant to yank a few chains. That only applies to some conservative denominations, and they do not have a monopoly on the term.

I'm an Episcopalian; we have full-fledged female priests. Of course, addressing the rector as "Father Susan" can sound a little weird even to us, so we often say "Reverend Susan" instead.

MM

 

[Guest]

This is the closest thread, so here are some interesting stats. - Perdita
------------------
San Francisco Married 4,037 Same-Sex Pairs From 46 States, By DEAN E. MURPHY (SF Chron)

SAN FRANCISCO, March 17 — Gays and lesbians from 46 states and eight countries were among the 4,037 same-sex couples married in San Francisco, but most of the newlyweds were Californians living outside the city, officials here reported on Wednesday.

A preliminary analysis of same-sex marriage applications in the month that licenses were issued to gay and lesbian couples shows that more than 91 percent of the weddings involved California residents. The California Supreme Court put an end to the marriages on March 11 pending a review in May or June of two lawsuits against the city.

Though San Francisco contributed the most couples, 1,278, the number accounted for fewer than a third of the same-sex marriages. Taken together, cities in the San Francisco Bay Area accounted for about half of the marriages, with nearly 9 percent of the couples coming from nearby Oakland.

The marriage data were compiled by the office of Mabel S. Teng, the county assessor-recorder. The analysis was the first survey of demographic information provided by the same-sex couples, which in addition to home addresses included ages, educational levels and genders of the applicants.

"The filing system is not perfect," Ms. Teng said in releasing the information. "This is the best estimate we can provide right now."

The analysis shows that most of the newlyweds were highly educated, with nearly 69 percent possessing at least one college degree. More than three-quarters were 50 years old or younger, with the largest number 35 to 50. A majority of the couples, 57 percent, were lesbians. Newlyweds came from every state except Maine, Mississippi, West Virginia and Wyoming.

Gary J. Gates, a demographer at the Population Studies Center at the Urban Institute, who specializes in gay and lesbian issues, said the data from San Francisco seemed to correspond with national demographic trends about same-sex couples. Mr. Gates is a co-author of "The Gay and Lesbian Atlas," a book to be released next month by the Urban Institute.

Data from the 2000 census showed that the San Francisco area had the highest per capita concentration of same-sex couples of any metropolitan area in the country, he said. The census also reported that 92,138 couples in California said they were living in same-sex relationships, the most of any state.

San Francisco reported 8,902 couples and ranked 11th among cities nationwide in the number of same-sex couples per capita, behind such sites as Provincetown, Mass., Wilton Manors, Fla., and the California cities of Guerneville, West Hollywood and Palm Springs, Mr. Gates said.

Advocates of gay marriage said the new statistics indicate that the contentious same-sex marriage experiment in San Francisco, which began Feb. 12 with a directive from Mayor Gavin Newsom, revealed a desire among gays and lesbians to have their relationships recognized by the state.

"This is a snapshot that there is an enormous desire for equal treatment, and if it is available in limited supply, those who have best access to government were able to receive some of that equality," said Jennifer C. Pizer, a senior staff lawyer in Los Angeles for the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund. "But equality should not be rationed in short supply like this chapter we just witnessed."

Jonathan Rauch, a writer in residence at the Brookings Institution and the author of "Gay Marriage: Why It Is Good for Gays, Good for Straights, and Good for America" (Times Books, 2004), said the large percentage of Californians among the married couples showed that "national elites and activists" did not drive the demand for licenses.

"Marriage is something that real people who live in a real state with real relationships and real kids really need," Mr. Rauch said. "In California, if it holds up, the benefits will be very real."

A lawyer for some opponents of the marriages, Robert H. Tyler of the Alliance Defense Fund, said the representation of 45 other states among the married couples was a sign of the broad harm caused by Mayor Newsom.

"It just goes to show how his reckless actions can negatively impact our democracy by crossing state lines," Mr. Tyler said.

"What is important," he added, "is what the current law states in California, that marriage is only between a man and a woman."

 

[Belegon]

It is an unfortunate truth that there will always be this kind of simple minded idiots.

If you do not believe what I believe you must be wrong because I am right!

They attract the attention of the media precisely because they are so wrong. It awakens the ire of better-minded individuals, creating notice, which fuels the media coverage.

I am thankful that we are outraged by it because that is the fuel to correct it, but I doubt we will ever change the minds of the fools in that town.

The greatest enemy of ignorance is education. Let us all promise to continue being outraged by such foolishness, thus doing our part to combat it.

 

[AngeloMichael]

I suppose this thread is an appropriate place to post this.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/st.../20040318/0634713423.htm&sc=1110&floc=NW_5-L1

WILMINGTON, N.C. (AP) - The parents of a first-grader are fuming over the book their daughter brought home from the school library: a children's story about a prince whose true love turns out to be another prince

Parents have a right to teach their kids what they believe is right, but if most people were allowed to read a book like this when they were 6, maybe homosexuals wouldn't be having as difficult a time as they are having today being granted simple human rights.

 

[KenJames]

Re: Re: Hopping on board with more stupidity, KC

Surely this is an oxymoron?

A lesbian, as I understand it, is by definition female.
A minister of religion, as I understand it, is by definition male.

So how can this be anything but a spoof?

That should get them going!

Although I think you're being ironic, I'm not sure, so I'll answer seriously.

I was raised as a Methodist, and that's still the Christian denomination I feel closest to. The Methodist church has ordained women as ministers for at least 50 years.

The Methodists have been "struggling" with "the gay issue" for my entire adult lifetime. As a former member of a church which prides itself on rationalism, it's really distressing to have so many Methodists embracing irrational homophobia.

===

Oh! I just found your hidden text and changed its color from white to green in the quote.

Edited for spelling

 

[KenJames]

California sometimes claims to be a progressive state but there were anti-sodomy laws on the books until the seventies. They were mostly just enforced against gay people and mostly it just gave the cops a way to shake down gay men. Finally, the leglislature had the sense to repeal them and Jerry Brown signed the repeal into law. I mention that because gay sex has only even been legal for about thirty years, although both gay and straight people had been breaking the law for years, probably since it had been passed.

That sounds relatively progressive to me. In the seventies, Texas adopted a new criminal code and the legislature felt compelled to add anti-sodomy statutes. The United States Supreme Court just struck those laws down last year.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

The Hartsells said they are keeping the book until they get assurances it won't be circulated.

Yeah, right..! I bet ya the father is reading it in secret in the bathroom...

 

[SlickTony]

I've been a Methodist by marriage for the last several years. The church I'm in presently had a female pastor when I joined.

Sadly, most of the people in my church are much more conservative than I am with regard to "the gay issue." There's just one other person I know whose attitude is as liberal as mine. It's very hard to try to discuss it with most of them--they haul out the Bible verses and you can hear their minds slamming shut.

I really don't understand it. The Bible was written at a time when it was believed that the heart was the seat of human emotion, nobody knew what the function of the brain was, and it had not yet been determined that the world is round.

Nobody would assert nowadays that the earth is flat or that man is literally made out of dirt, but try to assert that sexual orientation is a variant that occurs in nature, and the Bible is hauled out once more.

 

[kellycummings]

I've been a Methodist by marriage for the last several years. The church I'm in presently had a female pastor when I joined.

Sadly, most of the people in my church are much more conservative than I am with regard to "the gay issue." There's just one other person I know whose attitude is as liberal as mine. It's very hard to try to discuss it with most of them--they haul out the Bible verses and you can hear their minds slamming shut.

I really don't understand it. The Bible was written at a time when it was believed that the heart was the seat of human emotion, nobody knew what the function of the brain was, and it had not yet been determined that the world is round.

Nobody would assert nowadays that the earth is flat or that man is literally made out of dirt, but try to assert that sexual orientation is a variant that occurs in nature, and the Bible is hauled out once more.

My methodist church is the opposite. Everyone (well, almost everyone) is tolerant, understanding, forgiving and non-judgmental. I think they are the reason I will always defend the Christian faith even when Christians act stupid.
Our ministers always preached about love and never once did I hear a fire-and-brimstone sermon. They taught that everyone is equal and can go to Heaven. I've never seen the people chastise anyone for their lifestyle. At least not in public. I've gone to this church for most of my life I have only positive things to say about it. It's probably the only reason I still have faith in Christianity. If I followed some of these others I think I would have lost my faith long ago due to the total hyprocisy.