Begging the question. ??

[Pure]

What the heck is it?

I found most on these on the 'net. Which are correct?

0. Joe says, “[Inflicting]The death penalty is morally wrong. “
His friend says, “Why?”
Joe replies, “All intentional acts of killing human beings are morally wrong. [Inflicting] The death penalty is an intentional act of killing a human being. So the point is obvious."
His friend says, “You are begging the question.” [Wiki]

1. "This year's budget deficit is half a trillion dollars. This begs the question: how are we ever going to balance the budget?" [Wiki]

2. Your 16-year-old son gets in a fight with a bouncer at a strip club. Sure, it’s bad enough he’s rumbling with bouncers—and you are probably in need of some parenting books—but you might say the whole situation begs the question: How did he, being underage, get into the strip club in the first place? And did he at least get a lap dance before he was thrown out?

3. After chronicling Natalie Coughlin's accomplishments, a reporter writes: "All of which begs the question, is Coughlin the best female swimmer this country has ever seen?" [Grammar Girl, example]


4. "The behaviour of ministers is a matter for prime ministers, who appoint and dismiss them. But this begs the question of who should find out what has gone wrong on behalf of a prime minister. " The Times (London), 30 Nov. 2004:

5. “Board members’ explanations to the public grow more and more vague.
This begs the question: What is going on in the minds of these officials who were appointed to serve us, and why is no one in authority questioning the actions of this board that is apparently governing itself and answering to no one?" The News Courier, Athens Alabama, May 13, 2009.

7. “Once the transition to digital is complete-by the year 2006 or by the time 85% of US households get digital feeds, whichever occurs later-the federal government will auction off the original analog channel spectrum. And DTV will be the new standard in broadcasting. Sure, you'll still be able to watch your favorite shows in analog like always, but you'll need to "update" your existing TV with a device that converts digital signals into analog ones. All of which begs the question: Why not just go with the digital flow?” (Plasma TV Science, website, “a buyer’s guide”)

8. Pierre says he’s loyal to the cause of animal rights. He’s running for President of the organization. The other candidate, in debate to him, says, “Are you loyal? We’ve all seen you in your back yard shooting squirrels.”

Pierre replies, “Of course I’m loyal to the cause. I’ve proposed to give all my free time to this organization, if elected its President.”

His opponent says, “What you say begs the question, ‘What do you understand by the word, ‘loyal’?”

 

[Stella_Omega]

I see the phrase used to mean "raises an obvious question or point," in the manner of examples 1, 2, 3, and 7, but that's incorrect-- it actually refers to circular arguments, such as 4, 5, and 8.

And the question begging to be asked here is;

What happened to 6?

 

[TxRad]

I see the phrase used to mean "raises an obvious question or point," in the manner of examples 1, 2, 3, and 7, but that's incorrect-- it actually refers to circular arguments, such as 4, 5, and 8.

And the question begging to be asked here is;

What happened to 6?

6 and 9 are both missing. The answer is obvious my dear Watson.

 

[Stella_Omega]

6 and 9 are both missing. The answer is obvious my dear Watson.

They were otherwise occupied...

 

[NoJo]

Begging the question is one among many fallacies I learned to recognise in my three years of study of formal logic, philosophy and linguistics.

The simplest for of it is the old saw, used to illustrate some of the typical tactics of lawyers: "When did you stop beating your wife?"

 

[3113]

0...8.

All of which begs the question: what are you going on about?

 

[Katyusha]

I'll go with Stella on this...although common lexicon is enough to change the definitions of words and phrases over time, which begs the question, "Is there still an incorrect use for this phrase?"

 

[oil_paint03]

6 and 9 are both missing. The answer is obvious my dear Watson.

maybe 6 and 9 were out begging a question or three...

 

[JamesSD]

The wikipedia article on this is pretty fascinating. It sounds like incorrect use has become so widespread that it has become correct, or at least generally accepted, usage.

 

[cantdog]

'0' is the only proper use of it, in the twentieth century; nowadays it has the meaning used in the rest, also.

Native speakers have the say, here. Everyone seems to have decided, all at once, to use the phrase, ad nauseam, in a new way. Meh. There's no usage police.

 

[JamesSD]

There's no usage police.

You're right, there isn't. Language is a fluid, ever-evolving thing. It can be influenced by pop culture, corporations, politics, technology, or even simple confusion. Youth cultures constantly evolve new ways of speaking to each other to differentiate themselves from generations past. As long as the meaning is clear to the speaker and reciever, it is effective.

 

[DesertPirate]

All of which begs the question: what are you going on about?

*snerk*

 

[Handley_Page]

Erm. . . . what was the question, again?

 

[3113]

'0' is the only proper use of it

True, but it's not an easy thing to explain to people. It's not a fallacy that's easy to see like "cause and effect" or a non sequitur. People honestly look at that argument about the death penalty and don't see what's wrong with it. Or what "begging the question" means.

No surprise that the phrase has changed meaning to something easier to understand.

 

[rgraham666]

Language is about communication, not truth.

So words mean what people want them to mean.

 

[Liar]

Words mean what people agree they mean. There seems to be some disagreement on this certain idiom, no?

 

[Austin8]

Words mean what people agree they mean. There seems to be some disagreement on this certain idiom, no?

hunh?

 

[Verdad]

I have to admit I use the phrase liberally, although I know its correct meaning. I'm not bothered by it so long as the context is clear, though. I see it as one of those terms that have a general and a specific meaning.

 

[Pure]

a few posters seem content with the wide range of meanings: hardly anyone has ventured to specify what these meanings are, in their own words [don't quote]:

the "it means whatever the speaker wants it to mean" school of thought have apparently decided it's a faux literate way of saying "makes me wonder".

 

[Stella_Omega]

a few posters seem content with the wide range of meanings: hardly anyone has ventured to specify what these meanings are, in their own words [don't quote]:

the "it means whatever the speaker wants it to mean" school of thought have apparently decided it's a faux literate way of saying "makes me wonder".

Well, yeah, now that you put it into those words. That's pretty much what it meant in its original logic meaning, too-- a slightly more specific thing to wonder about, perhaps.

 

[Dragonlipz]

'reading the thread with my brow furled in dumb, bemused wonder'
"Huh?"

 

[NoJo]

Begging the question means arguing spuriously from an unfounded base. It's very commonly done by politicians:

We need more religious education because we're a Christian Nation.

A woman could never be president because women just aren't cut out to be presidents.

etc

 

[Pure]

it might be mentioned that the 'base' contains the assertion that's supposedly to be proven, as in subjoe's examples.

and that the argument from the base and other premises, while 'spurious' (faulty) in outcome, is deductively correct (valid).

as in the case of my originally posted example of nonsub joe (no relative):

0. [nonsub] Joe says, [Conclusion to be proven]“[Inflicting]The death penalty is morally wrong. “
His friend says, “Why?”

[nonsub]Joe replies, [base premise] “All intentional acts of killing human beings are morally wrong. [Inflicting] The death penalty is an intentional act of killing a human being. So the point is obvious."
His friend says, “You are begging the question.” [Wiki]

 

[Zeb_Carter]

In the US the usage police used to reside in the public/private school system. Unfortunately, today the public (government) school (indoctrination) system (centers) are today rife with the problem of producing worker bees for the political class.

I do know there are exceptions but, I'm generalizing here.

Private schools are not that much better at being keepers of the language.

 

[Huckleman2000]

The reason the other meaning has become popular is that it makes metaphorical sense: "this combination of information is so compelling that it implores one to ask the following question"