Begging numbers - A request for critique

[TheObserver]

Begging numbers

Four hands,
three legs,
two bowls in front,
one woman on roadside
with her grey bearded son.

Sitting
where the traffic taking a turn, slows down,
raising hands
at every approach
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp of departed cars.
People
atop cycles and rickshaws,
stop,
drop a few coins,
flop.

Zeroes.

 

[Angeline]

Four hands,
three legs,
two bowls in front,
one woman on roadside
with her grey bearded son.

Sitting
where the traffic taking a turn, slows down,
raising hands
at every approach
of departed cars.
People
atop cycles and rickshaws,
stop,
drop a few coins,
flop.

Zeroes.

This is a teriffic poem--it's spare, but really clear in its images. I have a few suggestions:

two bowls in front,

I think you can lose "in front" without losing meaning, which makes the lines tighter

with her grey bearded son.

If you change "her" to "one," you keep the number theme going

where the traffic taking a turn, slows down,

This is a bit unwieldy--do you need to say "taking a turn"? It seems unecessary to me and technically (if you keep it) you need a comma before "taking." Or you could just say "turning"

raising hands
at every approach
of departed cars.

Cars that are departed have already approached--this seems unclear to me. Are they trying to get the cars to stop and throw change (which makes sense), or waving at the cars after they pass (and if so why)? You could you just say

raising hands
at every approaching car.

or

raising hands
at approaching cars.

flop.

What does this mean? Do the coins flop into the bowls? If so, you could say:

stop
drop
a few coins flop

then again coins don't flop--they would clink. Something to think about...

In any case I really like your poem. I hope my suggestions helped.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I thought the bowls were her old lady breasts.

Well, this is Literotica!

---dr.M.

 

[Angeline]

I thought the bowls were her old lady breasts.

Well, this is Literotica!

---dr.M.

Well if the good doctor is correct, keep that "in front" part in.

 

[The_Fool]

Good Stuff. Comments below are examples of how I would clarify and also what confused me. And I am easily confused. Thanks for the opportunity to contribute, and the opportunity to disagree with Angeline…


two bowls in front,

I’m going to disagree with Angeline, even though she is much smarter, prettier, better at this than I will ever be. I think your should keep it this way.


one woman on roadside
with her grey bearded son.

How about with grey-beard son


where the traffic taking a turn, slows down,

Maybe where traffic slows to turn

Unless you want that hard pause, then maybe where traffic slows, turns


raising hands
at every approach
of departed cars.

Again I have to disagree with Angeline. I see departed cars as missed opportunities. Kind of the antithesis of seeing something in the rear-view mirror.


People
atop cycles and rickshaws,

This one confused me. I missed translates cars into cycles and rickshaws. Or is this something different?


flop.

flop confuses me…


Zeroes.

This is a question. Are you inferring that the woman and son are Zeroes?

 

[TheObserver]

Thank you - A revision

Angeline, Dr M, and The_F (I refuse to call anyone 'fool' unless I mean it),

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions, especially Dr M. By the way Dr M, the only bowls that I have seen are hemi spherical, semi hemi spherical or semi semi hemi spherical (we call them plates here). Some I have seen are of the same shape but with the curve not being smooth but a series of angled sides. Where have you seen bowls that look like an old lady's breasts and more importantly, what purpose do they serve in our lives. Oh one more thing, how do these 'bowls' stand/sit on a table or ground, I mean they will just wobble all around.

OK now I am as confused as you all by 'flop'. And no it is not the coins that flop.

Begging numbers

Four hands,
three legs,
two bowls in front,
one woman on roadside
with her grey-bearded son.

Sitting
where traffic slows for a sharp turn,
raising hands
at every approach
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp of departed cars.

People
atop cycles and rickshaws,
stop,
drop a few coins and
flop.

Zeroes.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Hi TheO, it's nice to see you again.

You are close to a strong poem. The most important things are there, the vivid image, a human drama. But the poem is not there yet. It is spoiled by... ok, step by step.

First a general comment. When you write you must be not conscienscious that you exist. Your problems came from violating this basic requirement. I'll be concrete.

(BTW, when a poem is truly great than also a poetry reader is not conscienscious of her/his own existence. Not every reader is poetry reader though, not when s/he admires him/herself while reading ).

The title already is false, forced. Somehow, whether you like to admit it or not, you are demeaning the characters of your poem. I understand your idea of being critical of the rich car drivers, for whom these people might be "numbers". Or, if someone wants to give a free rein to the interpretation, possibly you mean millions of beggars, that they are just statistical data ("numbers"). And still, you shouldn't do it. It is in bad taste, insensitive. It is that noise of author's existence, it is the noise of the author's brain.

The same goes for the cheap trick of the regular, diminishing numbers: 4 3 2,1,0 -- 4 hands, 3 legs, 2 bowls, 1 woman, 0 at the conclusion. "Very clever". This is not poetry. This is bad taste.
"A woman on roadside / and her grey bearded son" is a more natural phrase, better English than "one woman". You want to show, like a reporter, that people are treated as numbers, but you should not do it yourself, you are not suppossed to do "provocations".

Your usage of "zeroes" at the end is not clear enough, it is superficial, you are insisting on your game.

Word "flop" has several meanings, and they get in the way of the poem. You are responsible, as the author, for all meanings which may naturally pop into a reader's mind. Your art should take an advantage of multiple meanings, it should be one of your artistic means. Instead, the poem somewhat suffers from the multiple meaniongs of the word.

The last remark is relatively minor. The objection about "cleverness" is serious to me.

Don't give up on the image. And don't try to say too much in one poem. if you want to say more than that image carries then write a new poem with different images.

(And still, I am glad to see a poem free from cliches, from "opinions" in the form of "propaganda" adjectives... You are on a poetic orbit. On a high orbbit. Just get high on that orbit, stay away from its low ends).

Best regards

 

[Senna Jawa]

[...]
Sitting
where the traffic taking a turn, slows down,
raising hands
at every approach
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp of departed cars.
[...]

I've concentrated on main issues. But this quoted phrase perhaps has several minor problems. First of all I get an impression from it that these two people sit in the middle of the road, between the cars. Sure, earlier you've written that they are sitting "on roadside". It is still preferable if a poem can be sensibly read also locally, without keeping the whole in your mind all the time (the same goes for programs and programming languages ). The difficulties which a reader encounters should be authentic, not superficial, not caused by the way the poem is written, by the way which makes the understanding harder. (Unfortunately in many poems authors try to make them harder to understand on purpose, in a misguided effort to make the text poetic. This is a nonsense, but many people are misled into accepting it as something poetic).

You are using the grammatic form ...ing ...iong ...ing heavily here. It is tricky and better avoided. Again, the text should not set any artificial difficulties. The purely grammatical understanding of a phrase (parsing) should not depend on the sense of the phrase. One should be able to parse the phrase without even understanding the meaning of the words. It should be sufficient to understand their grammatical role locally, without understanding the meaning of the total, pretty long phrase.

Ok, here, formally, to a computer, it can be the traffic which is raising its hands.

If a crude computer program can parse your phrase correctly then readers can concentrate on poetry. If a computer is too dumb to parse your phrase then people have to work hard at parsing instead of concentrating on the poetry.

Finally "approach of departed" doesn't sound logical (not to mention another problem with the association of "departed" and "dead").

I've written so much because I think that your poem deserves a serious critical comment, and not because I think little of it. (While many "poems" should be trashed instantly, this one should be given justice, a better implementation).

Best regards,

 

[ag2507]

Begging numbers

Four hands,
three legs,
two bowls in front,
one woman on roadside
with her grey bearded son.

Sitting
where the traffic taking a turn, slows down,
raising hands
at every approach
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp of departed cars.
People
atop cycles and rickshaws,
stop,
drop a few coins,
flop.

Zeroes.

Your problem is mainly in the middle stanza: you flop into prose andtry to explain too much. Pare it down...

Hands raised
to every approach
of departed cars

People (etc.)

or even

Hands raised
to the crawling traffic
of departed cars etc.

(all this slowing to turn stuff adds nothing and most of us can figure that out.)

 

[TheObserver]

Senna Jawa and ag2507

Senna Jawa,

Thank you for your detailed critique. All of it very helpful, not only for this poem but for possible future ones. You caught me with 'one woman', I had initially used 'a woman' then changed it to help continue the 4 - 3 - 2 - 1 theme.

I have made some revision but could not bring myself to change the 'departed cars'. The lady is really old and by the time she sees a car and raises her hands to ask, the cars are gone. Or to put it another way most of the people in the cars dont even notice her.



ag2507,

Thank you for your helpful comments. The revision takes care of them, I hope.

Regards

TheObserver

 

[TheObserver]

Revision

Numbers that count

Four hands,
three legs,
two bowls in front,
a woman on roadside
with her grey-bearded son.

Near a busy T-junction,
the pair sits on the ground,
empty palms slowly stretch out
at every approach of
departed cars.

People
atop cycles and rickshaws,
stop,
drop a few coins and go,
unseen, unheard.

 

[ag2507]

Near a busy T-junction,
the pair sits on the ground,
empty palms slowly stretch out
at every approach of
departed cars.

Is still too prosy...

By a busy junction,
the pair sits,
empty palms stretch out
at the approach of
departed cars.

Definalely lose the T and the slowly

AG