BDSM != Disrespect: help explaining that to hubby

Mazuri

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Hello, my name is Mazuri and I'm a BDSM n00b :)

*waits for the greetings from the 'support group'*

Yes, well, I came to today's meeting to ask for helpful ways to explain to my hubby that the things I'd like to try and explore are not Disrespectful or Demeaning to me in any way (this has been his major issue thus far).

A short bit of history: we've been married 16 years and have had our ups and downs as most have. We are currently in a major UP that's got us at a point where we're probably happier and more relaxed/open than we've ever been. We have discussed certain things and I've told him what I'd like to try (primarily light bondage, sensation play, spankings, etc...all on the light side until we find what clicks). For some he's been very responsive, for others, like the spanking, he feels would be demeaning.

I know I can't make him something he's not, and I'd not want to. I kinda like the "him" I have :) What I would like, however, is advice on how to sort this out a bit and explain/reassure him that it can't be disrespectful/demeaning if it's what I want.

I'm sure there are umpty-dozen threads on this, and I've been lurking for a while searching, but couldn't find one that covered this particular aspect.

Thank you for your patience

maz
 
As someone who has real issues with spanking I suggest that you take the long approach. When you have your discussions, make it clear that it's something you'd like to try with someone you trust, but also make it clear that you're not going to push him into an area he's uncomfortable in anymore than he would do that to you. The experts here will give you more ideas on how to get him interested in the idea, but if you respect his limits and let him get comfortable with the idea, he'll probably come around. Good luck.
 
I think it's about trust. If you say it, he needs to believe you. That's the way I'd present it anyway. That if you trust each other, love each other, it's only about the way you two see it, not what anyone else might think about it.

Also ask him to just please try it, then you'll both be sure. Seeing (and feeling) is often believing. A lot of the entire process is about discarding judgments that don't apply with loving, consenting partners.
 
First off, thank you both for your replies :)

He's currently in Korea, so we are having to discuss long distance at the moment without being able to put things into practice.

Otto, thank you for reminding me not to push. I have mentioned it once or twice and, since we're apart a lot now, wrote him a few stories; one of which had a few of the things I'd like to try in it. When he was home for his mid-tour leave, he did give me a single, albeit light, swat during a session of hot and heavy sex so I have hope. I was sufficiently happy and proud and let him know his willingness to try was extremely pleasing to me. But then I let it drop so that he could come to his own conclusions. With another 4 months until he's home, I am learning patience :D

Recidiva, thank you for pointing that out...that he needs to trust that I mean what I say. I believe his main hesitation is that he feels I can't, logically, know I'll like it until we've tried it and he's hesitant to try something that I may not like. Especially something that has the potential to cause me pain. Yes, that's rather circular logic, but we are less than a year out of a really bad spell in our relationship and he doesn't want to do anything to fall back into that, I believe. I will let him know, when next we discuss this (I let him bring it up now as I don't want to push), that as much as I trust him to not really hurt me, he must trust that I know what I want...even if it is just to try. :)

Thank you both again

maz
 
Mazuri said:
First off, thank you both for your replies :)

He's currently in Korea, so we are having to discuss long distance at the moment without being able to put things into practice.

Otto, thank you for reminding me not to push. I have mentioned it once or twice and, since we're apart a lot now, wrote him a few stories; one of which had a few of the things I'd like to try in it. When he was home for his mid-tour leave, he did give me a single, albeit light, swat during a session of hot and heavy sex so I have hope. I was sufficiently happy and proud and let him know his willingness to try was extremely pleasing to me. But then I let it drop so that he could come to his own conclusions. With another 4 months until he's home, I am learning patience :D

Recidiva, thank you for pointing that out...that he needs to trust that I mean what I say. I believe his main hesitation is that he feels I can't, logically, know I'll like it until we've tried it and he's hesitant to try something that I may not like. Especially something that has the potential to cause me pain. Yes, that's rather circular logic, but we are less than a year out of a really bad spell in our relationship and he doesn't want to do anything to fall back into that, I believe. I will let him know, when next we discuss this (I let him bring it up now as I don't want to push), that as much as I trust him to not really hurt me, he must trust that I know what I want...even if it is just to try. :)

Thank you both again

maz

Sounds like you guys have a good groove going, I'm sure you can make it happen. It can be really tough to break with habit or tradition and try new things, from food to dance to sex. Patience and trust is the key.

Sometimes it does take putting it into a new context. A new taste, a new experience, a new flavor. If he can take it out of the negative context and just put it into terms of pure sensation, that might help.
 
In addition to ditto-ing what others have already said, both about the solid relationship you seem to have with your hubby and matters of trust and patience, also think that it's important to remember that many men have been conditioned to think that "hurting" a woman is always disrespectful - not only of the woman but that it makes them less of a man. Sometimes it can take a while to get beyond that conditioning. I started on my "formal" journey with a switch male friend and play partner who found it much harder to embrace his "dark" side than I did, according to him, in part for this reason.

In any case, good luck and have fun! :rose: Neon
 
It takes time and I would suggest you start with the least offensive acts (ie candle wax or light bondage versus actual spanking which brings up all kinds of "abuse" connotations). D and I have been together for 17 years and we have always been sexually compatible but the bdsm factor was a gradual thing over the years. I had experience and he didn't so I can relate to where you are coming from in some ways. I know D was afraid to express his dark side and realistically, most of us have one. He was able to move there slowly as he saw my reaction to his actions. You may need to top a bit from the bottom for awhile by guiding him but it will be so worth it if your relationship is strong (which it sounds like it is). Be warned that you two might make great leaps and then suddenly hit a wall/go stagnant and he might be afraid to push further - give it time so that he can adjust and keep the communication open. We laugh now because our best times of discussing our sex and needs are while sitting on the ferry as we head to the city (coffee and sex chat anyone?).

Good luck! :)

~kierae :rose:
 
Mazuri said:
For some he's been very responsive, for others, like the spanking, he feels would be demeaning.

I know I can't make him something he's not, and I'd not want to. I kinda like the "him" I have :) What I would like, however, is advice on how to sort this out a bit and explain/reassure him that it can't be disrespectful/demeaning if it's what I want.
That's one way to frame the discussion.

Another might be to acknowledge that spanking is, in fact, a bit demeaning. At the very least it places the spankee, momentarily, in a less than dignified position or stature.

I think of Spanking 101 as sensation play with a mildly humiliating twist.

Is it possible that that twist is part of the appeal for you? If so, there might be value in openly acknowledging that to your husband.


Mazuri said:
I believe his main hesitation is that he feels I can't, logically, know I'll like it until we've tried it and he's hesitant to try something that I may not like. Especially something that has the potential to cause me pain.
I'd put money on part of his fear being concern that *he* actually might like it, and worry about what that might say about *him*.
 
You've told him what you are interested in and he didn't go running away screaming, that's a good sign.

He isn't comfortable with spanking. He thinks he'd be degrading you. You've told him otherwise but he can't believe otherwise because this is for him, an emotional issue.

Take the pressure off. Tell him that no matter how much you'd like it or anything else, you don't want him to feel he has to do something he isn't comfortable with. Your respect and love him regardless. So even though this is something that just makes you soak through your panties thinking of it, y'all don't ever have to do it. (Of course only say this if you mean it.)

Alternatively, suggest playing a game and keeping it playful. If you think y'all would be interested in the whole naughty girl/student/whatever and professor/nun/whatever "disciplining" thing. Sometimes it's easier to approach uncomfortable things through role play.

I know it wasn't until A) My husband spanked me very tentatively and got a HUGE positive reactions and B) I spanked him showing him how it doesn't have to hurt but can feel sensual and good that my husband truly got into it.

If it is really a hard limit of his, enjoy what he WILL do.

That's my advice.
 
Again, thank you all for your encouraging responses. :)

This (or anything else we choose to experiment with) is definitely not something I'd ever force him to do if he felt he absolutely could not; his happiness and peace of mind are far more important to me than that. He has some hard limits on things that I have brought up once. He explained why and it's dropped. Features quite heavily in my fantasies while he's gone, but that particular ball will forever be in his court now as I'd not push him to do something that made him uneasy. He is willing to do so much that even a year ago I'd have never imagined, and I've had fun working on expanding what I do for him as well. Can't leave him wanting ;)

JMohegan, I'm not sure what it is that I find appealing about any of it, to be honest *laughs* If asked, I'd say humiliation play would be a hard limit as I've had plenty of that in prior relationships. I don't see a spanking as humiliating; however, more a handing over of myself into his care to do with as he wishes...the ultimate show of love and trust. But I can see how he, or anyone else, could view it as such, I suppose. He's promised me a weekend getaway when he returns to chat and experiment and play and simply be together. If we've not discussed it online before then, I'm sure it'll come up at that time. :) If it doesn't work out *shrugs* it doesn't. I'm cool with that and I'll make doubly sure he realizes it as well.

Thanks again, all :rose:
 
Some good advice you've gotten so far, so I won't repeat it.

I will suggest, however, getting a book to read and he can read it when he gets back home if you don't want to send it to him while he's overseas...

When Someone You Love Is Kinky by Dossie Easton & Catherine A. Liszt $16.95 + S&H - Greenery Press

A good way to educate without pressure.
 
Mazuri,

Im in a similar situation right now, but Im on the husband side of things. I dont have the demeaning attitude, but its not my thing really, but its turning out its my wife's. Thus, I'm having to learn a bit or maybe more to give her what she wants. Persaonlly, I appreciated the openess from her, it seems like for the longest time, she kept her desires and fantasies locked away.

So, I cant come to you as an expert in any way. My approach was to find out exactly what she was thinking in regards to the subject and sort of weed out the things I didnt feel comfortable with (i.e. asphyxiation), and let her know and why. I certainly think there is a middle ground to be found. My thread isnt too much farther down from this one, and while brief some comments were made there that had some decent alternatives.

My 2 cents...
 
i also vote for trying something that he doesnt have an issue with first and seeing how you both react to it. if he sees that he reacts well to that and that it was enjoyable to both of you, then he may feel more comfortable exploring something else. in this way you can approach the issue of spanking from the side as opposed to head on and it may be less frightning with some experience in the new things you are interested in under both of your belts.
 
I haven't read the replies, but I would say that I would have a problem with someone else telling me what's demeaning to me. How would they know?
 
graceanne said:
I haven't read the replies, but I would say that I would have a problem with someone else telling me what's demeaning to me. How would they know?

I KNEW I couldn't be the ONLY one thinking that. It seems kind of demeaning in and of itself, as if I'm too stupid to figure out what's demeaning to me and what isn't.

Why, yes, Virginia, feminism and subbie-ism can, in fact, go hand-in-hand. :D
 
Mazuri, you could try watching Exit to Eden its an R rated film so nothing too extreme but it really shows the enjoyment and excitement the photographer gets out of spanking and how much he wants someone to do it to him. Maybe that will help him realize how badly you want it. You might want to reward him with something also (maybe a hat that says SWAT on it). Just joking about the hat good luck.
 
BiBunny said:
I KNEW I couldn't be the ONLY one thinking that. It seems kind of demeaning in and of itself, as if I'm too stupid to figure out what's demeaning to me and what isn't.

Why, yes, Virginia, feminism and subbie-ism can, in fact, go hand-in-hand. :D

Yeah, pretty much. I'm so delicate. I can't make decisions for myself, and I don't truelly know how I'm feeling. I need a big strong man to tell me what's good for me, and what isn't. :rolleyes:
 
Oh, now there's a great strategy and approach to this situation, just assert the feminist in you...that should solve the whole problem. :rolleyes:

Mazuri,

As others have said, your best approach is to help educate your husband. he obviously has clear ideas of his own moral code which looks at these things as being wrong. Unless you can give him an alternate view of these things which will help him understand them in a different persepctive, chances are he is not going particpate.

I think reading the books that were suggested, and even doing some soul searching on your own as to your own reasons for wanting these things and just being honest about them so that you can find the right words in which to communicate your wants and your needs to your husband.

One thing you might say to him is along these lines...

"You are my husband, my friend and the man I love. I may not be able to explain all the whys or reasons for why I have some of these wants and needs that I do, but I do know that you being my husband, you are the only person that can meet these needs and wants of mine. If you don't, where does that leave me? Please keep an open mind about all this and that you will talk with me more about it and try to be understanding. As long as we have that, we can work out the rest together one step at a time."

I wish you good luck.

~RJ
 
RJMasters said:
Oh, now there's a great strategy and approach to this situation, just assert the feminist in you...that should solve the whole problem. :rolleyes:

I'm not picking on you or anything, but how can you not see the inherent patronization (is that a word?) in the assumption that he knows what's best for her? I'm not saying she should bitch-slap him for it or anything, but damn. By saying, "I'm not doing that; it's demeaning to you," he's demeaning her as well because of implication that she's too damn stupid to know that it's "not good" for her. Not good by whose standards? It ranks right up there with "don't worry your pretty little head about it" in my book.

Ok, I'm backing away. Male insecurities couched in "I'm only interested in what's best for you" bullshit is a MAJOR hot button for me.
 
It's nice to see you here, Mazuri. :)

In addition to what's been said, I'd probably find out if he was afraid of hurting me and/or was kind of lost on how to make it pleasurable. If that were the case, I might suggest a no-pressure, lighthearted exploration session, asking him to start really light and work his way up while I gave constant feedback.

My husband and I usually do this with new activities, and we've found it really helps us get an idea of what we like and what the limits are while building confidence, trust and technique. After that, we might incorporate it immediately, or wait until the next time. We ask for/give as much feedback as necessary for both of us to feel comfortable, whether it's the first or tenth time we do something.

This approach isn't everyone's cup of tea, but we've found it very helpful as nervous newbies. :)
 
BiBunny said:
I'm not picking on you or anything, but how can you not see the inherent patronization (is that a word?) in the assumption that he knows what's best for her? I'm not saying she should bitch-slap him for it or anything, but damn. By saying, "I'm not doing that; it's demeaning to you," he's demeaning her as well because of implication that she's too damn stupid to know that it's "not good" for her. Not good by whose standards? It ranks right up there with "don't worry your pretty little head about it" in my book.

Ok, I'm backing away. Male insecurities couched in "I'm only interested in what's best for you" bullshit is a MAJOR hot button for me.

Well maybe...just maybe, her husband, like many, was raised with the notion over the last 50 years that:

1. hitting girls and women is wrong.
2. That women do not wish to be treated as subservant or submissive but as equals
3. And that it is not ok to sexualy objectify women.

Now his wife is asking for him to...

1. Hit her
2. Wants to add elements of submission into their relationship
3. Has expressed desires and wants which have sexually objectifying themes to them.


I know the rotten man bastard must be chalk full of insecurities and that he couldn't possibly have as a motive that he loves his wife and doesn't want to do those things because of how he precieves them. I mean a whole lifetime of being ingrained and now his wife is telling him that she wants the exact opposite. I am sure he isn't confused at all...I am sure he is not giving knee jerk reactions from wrote. :rolleyes:

Get real...Exactly how does projecting your Hot MAJOR buttons onto Mazuri and her husband's relationship gonna help the situation? Shifting the focus from, "how can I best approach this with my husband to make him understand" to, "how dare he degrade me and tell me what to fucking think".

I mean honsetly are we really trying to help here or what? Mazuri comes here asking for help in how to work through this situation, and we got to interject this horse shit into the mix, as if it will not be difficult enough as it is to deal with this.

Say she decides to let him know that by him telling her how to think about these things, she feels he is degrading her....you know hat happens next? I do, He agrees(see ingrained rule number 2) and that she has a right to think however she wants to about these things....but then he counters and says, but so does he and as far as he is concerned, they are demeaning and degrading, and he wants no part of them and she has no right to tell him to think otherwise.....TA-DA! Way to go....that's just great...When perhaps continuing to find ways to communicate in order to help him understand and see an alternative view might have helped him to grow, open his mind and resulted in Mazuri getting more of what she wants....a stronger, more exciting, more satisfying relationship with her husband.
 
RJMasters said:
Well maybe...just maybe, her husband, like many, was raised with the notion over the last 50 years that:

1. hitting girls and women is wrong.
2. That women do not wish to be treated as subservant or submissive but as equals
3. And that it is not ok to sexualy objectify women.

Now his wife is asking for him to...

1. Hit her
2. Wants to add elements of submission into their relationship
3. Has expressed desires and wants which have sexually objectifying themes to them.


I know the rotten man bastard must be chalk full of insecurities and that he couldn't possibly have as a motive that he loves his wife and doesn't want to do those things because of how he precieves them. I mean a whole lifetime of being ingrained and now his wife is telling him that she wants the exact opposite. I am sure he isn't confused at all...I am sure he is not giving knee jerk reactions from wrote. :rolleyes:

Get real...Exactly how does projecting your Hot MAJOR buttons onto Mazuri and her husband's relationship gonna help the situation? Shifting the focus from, "how can I best approach this with my husband to make him understand" to, "how dare he degrade me and tell me what to fucking think".

I mean honsetly are we really trying to help here or what? Mazuri comes here asking for help in how to work through this situation, and we got to interject this horse shit into the mix, as if it will not be difficult enough as it is to deal with this.

Say she decides to let him know that by him telling her how to think about these things, she feels he is degrading her....you know hat happens next? I do, He agrees(see ingrained rule number 2) and that she has a right to think however she wants to about these things....but then he counters and says, but so does he and as far as he is concerned, they are demeaning and degrading, and he wants no part of them and she has no right to tell him to think otherwise.....TA-DA! Way to go....that's just great...When perhaps continuing to find ways to communicate in order to help him understand and see an alternative view might have helped him to grow, open his mind and resulted in Mazuri getting more of what she wants....a stronger, more exciting, more satisfying relationship with her husband.

Dude. Seriously. Valium. I just said I thought it was bullshit. You're the one who took it and ran with it. For someone who claims to believe women are equals, you sure did get pissy awfully quick when the "I know what's best for you" fallacy was pointed out. Hit close to home or something? Geez. :rolleyes:

Wouldn't it piss you off if someone acted like they knew what was best for you, even if you knew better? I never once said that she should tell her husband he was acting like an ass. I just said that for someone who's so worried about "demeaning" her, he's doing a damn good job of it already with the attitude he has. Hi, Pot? Meet Kettle. Why should her desire for something be subject to his deciding whether it's good for her or not?

Thank God the men I've chosen to be in relationships with are the kind of men--even the dominant ones--who respect my brain and my judgment and expect me to use them at all times. The biggest reaction I've ever gotten out of talking about the kinds of things I wanted to do was something like this:

I: I think I'd like to try xyz.
He: Cool. You sure?
I: Yep.
He: Ok.

Seriously. Chill. If I stumbled over some of YOUR insecurities about whether or not a woman has sense enough to make her own decisions, I apologize, but I can't imagine how someone can't see the irony in her husband's remarks. I'm not going to be all Sally Subbie about it, either, so excuse the hell out of me.

Mazuri, I'm sorry about the turn this thread has taken. You have received some good advice. :rose:
 
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BiBunny said:
I KNEW I couldn't be the ONLY one thinking that. It seems kind of demeaning in and of itself, as if I'm too stupid to figure out what's demeaning to me and what isn't.

Why, yes, Virginia, feminism and subbie-ism can, in fact, go hand-in-hand. :D

&​

graceann said:
I haven't read the replies, but I would say that I would have a problem with someone else telling me what's demeaning to me. How would they know?

Perhaps we need cut hubby some slack. Often times we experience the looking glass image in our dealings with others. We see ourselves in others and at times don't like what we see. The next step is to project our feelings elsewhere, usually onto the one we see our self in. In short hubby is demeaned by the thought of spanking an adult woman and rather than face this in himself he has projected the feelings onto his wife.

So Maruzi yes it is ok to want to be tied up and spanked, ok it is fan&%#^4*tastic and you have been given some good advice here. Go slow and be patient. All things really do come to those who wait.

Oh and welcome to the wild side.

Just saying
 
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Mazuri said:
JMohegan, I'm not sure what it is that I find appealing about any of it, to be honest *laughs*
Fair enough - and perfectly normal, by the way.

Mazuri said:
If asked, I'd say humiliation play would be a hard limit as I've had plenty of that in prior relationships. I don't see a spanking as humiliating; however, more a handing over of myself into his care to do with as he wishes...the ultimate show of love and trust.
Waaaaay back in the day, I had a partner who loved being given specific rules to follow. She loved it so much that she started asking me to give detailed instructions on how to dress, how to pose when I walked into the room at various times, etc. I resisted because this type of thing just didn't (and doesn't) interest me.

In one discussion in which she requested detailed instructions for preparing and serving dinner, she was trying was explain her urge for elaborate rules & rituals and said something almost identical to your line that I've colored red.

My response was: "My wish is that you make and serve dinner the way you've always made and served dinner. Have it ready at 7, put it on the table, and then we'll sit down and eat while we discuss the news of the day."

That wasn't the response she was looking for and yet, in a big picture kind of a way, I was doing exactly what she had asked me to do.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the way you view spanking - again, it is perfectly normal. Think of my comments here as simple food for thought about how he might perceive or process your expressed desire to defer control.
 
:) Again, thanks to all for their replies.

BiBunny and graceanne, the only reason I didn't take the whole thing as patronizing and insulting is that he never said that I would find it demeaning or degrading, only that he never wanted to do anything that I might find so or that he may feel is such. Being that we've never tried it (other than that one light swat), we can neither of us say how we'll feel afterwards. We've had some rough patches, I suffer from both a self-esteem issue and mild (cyclic) depression. He has reason to worry that things may not go as planned and in doing so they may go poorly. I believe he's showed that he's willing to try from that one swat, out of the blue and unmentioned/asked for several weeks prior to his coming home. *grins* Or maybe I'm not a healthy feminist in that feeling patronized never crossed my mind *shrugs* But I don't mind the discussion, it still brings forward issues I've not considered :)

As for everyone else...again, thank you. I'll try to get two copies of the book recommended, shortly (one for him and one for me...he needs something to do while in Korea ;) ). I've considered it for a while, but simply haven't yet.

We do go rather slowly on these things simply because I am not a very assertive person and all the even somewhat kinky explorations have been at my own instigation. He's very honest and open about what he absolutely will not do (and in a way that shows me it's the 'thing' and not me he's rejecting...that took us a while :p damn my insecurities) and he's never said he would absolutely not do this (or any of the other things on my to-do list) so I figure it will come along in due time. We've been married 16 years without his smacking my ass, I think I could survive a bit longer or even another 16 if he decided it's not for him :D
 
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